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Forums - Sports Discussion - The Official Pro Wrestling Thread

darkknightkryta on 26 February 2016
pokoko said:
darkknightkryta said:

But at that point, they should get Jericho to wrestle Undertaker.  A full heel Jericho will be able to run a good program with Undertaker.  Plus Jericho's in great shape and knows how to chain wrestle.

Unless Vince feels that Taker vs. Jericho isn't big enough.  He'd have a point, too, in that Jericho has mainly been used to put over other guys and that this year's Wrestlemania is seriously lacking in major storylines.  They've been reportedly trying to get big names to return but everyone is shooting them down.

Dave Meltzer said that Shane left to begin with because Vince has essentially picked Steph and HHH to succeed him instead of Shane.  I'm sure that hasn't changed.  Shane, right now, is an on-air figure only.  It would be nice he came back and took some kind of backstage position but I wouldn't blame him if he didn't want to work under Steph/HHH.  I don't even know if he can do that because of his business interests elsewhere.

I'm sure they can set him up as a paper-VP with a salary that would make me weep tears of jealousy and let him basically be an actor on RAW but it all depends on what he wants.

I thought I responded to this but I didn't :P.  The bigger question is, why do you think Shane is a bigger draw than Jericho?  Back when serious Jericho came back, he was the top man in the company.  Plus Shane hasn't been on T.V. in a long time.  Shane was featured in majour fueds.  Jericho was majour fueds.  Heel Jericho is the only fued that makes sense against the Undertaker.  That or I'd have Kevin Owens against Undertaker.  A little bit of Underbiker vs Owens would actually be pretty amazing.  Undertaker can dust off his mic skills, and Owens will be able to pull off a great match.



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pokoko on 26 February 2016
darkknightkryta said:

I thought I responded to this but I didn't :P.  The bigger question is, why do you think Shane is a bigger draw than Jericho?  Back when serious Jericho came back, he was the top man in the company.  Plus Shane hasn't been on T.V. in a long time.  Shane was featured in majour fueds.  Jericho was majour fueds.  Heel Jericho is the only fued that makes sense against the Undertaker.  That or I'd have Kevin Owens against Undertaker.  A little bit of Underbiker vs Owens would actually be pretty amazing.  Undertaker can dust off his mic skills, and Owens will be able to pull off a great match.

There is no question in mind that Shane returning is a much bigger casual draw than Jericho vs. Taker.  I don't think it's even close.  Jericho would need months to get into a storyline position where he felt like a threat to Taker.  Otherwise, everyone would just assume that it's another win for the Undertaker and another loss for Jericho.  Shane taking RAW from Steph/HHH, on the other hand, is an instant storyline draw because no one knows what is going to happen.  Speculation is all over the place.

BasilZero said:

So they are pushing Big Show VS Kevin Owens.....

 

So.........


Triple H VS Roman Reigns - World Heavyweight Title

Kevin Owens VS Big Show - Intercontinental Title

New Days VS League of Nations - Tag Team Titles

Kalisto VS ???? - United States title

Charlotte VS ???? - Diva's Title

Dean Ambrose VS Brock Lesnar

The Undertaker VS Shane McMahon

The Dudley Boys vs The Usos

 

No program for Wyatts, AJ Styles, Chris Jericho, Dolph Ziggler, Sin Cara, Cesaro (who apparently is back), Sandow, Los Matadores, StarDust, The Acension, R-Truth, Goldust.

 

What the hell man!?

I have no idea why they'd think anyone cares about Big Show.  I don't hate the guy but the idea of putting a title on him now is ridiculous.

The Wyatts have become a running joke because they have no credibility.  

Kalisto vs Del Rio should have been the Mania feud for Dallas, of all places.  If they're smart, they'll bring up Joe or Sami from NXT in a surprise challenge.  

I really have no clue what the end-game is for Y2AJ.

HHH vs. Reigns needs a swerve badly.  Rollins returning, for example.  Something.  Otherwise, the booing for Reigns winning will be incredible--actually, I kind of want to see that.



Mike321 on 26 February 2016
BasilZero said:

So they are pushing Big Show VS Kevin Owens.....

 

So.........


Triple H VS Roman Reigns - World Heavyweight Title

Kevin Owens VS Big Show - Intercontinental Title

New Days VS League of Nations - Tag Team Titles

Kalisto VS ???? - United States title

Charlotte VS ???? - Diva's Title

Dean Ambrose VS Brock Lesnar

The Undertaker VS Shane McMahon

The Dudley Boys vs The Usos

 

No program for Wyatts, AJ Styles, Chris Jericho, Dolph Ziggler, Sin Cara, Cesaro (who apparently is back), Sandow, Los Matadores, StarDust, The Acension, R-Truth, Goldust.

 

What the hell man!?

The Big Show?????? that's disgusting



                                                                                     

pokoko on 26 February 2016
BasilZero said:

 

What they should have done imo is

 

-Rowan+Harper VS Dudleyz VS The Usos VS New Day in a tornado tag ladder match and have the Wyatts win.

-Bray Wyatt VS Brock Lesnar - and have Wyatt win

-Triple H VS Reings VS Ambrose - adding ambrose would have been great

The Wyatts ... all winning?  I can't even understand what you're saying.  Vince would have you beaten with a shark.



Mike321 on 26 February 2016
BasilZero said:

 

Should have been AJ Styles VS Kevin Owens

So much for the Royal Rumble Moment

 

AJ got robbed like Yoshi's Woolly World.....Bloodborne.....Donkey Kong and ultrashroomz ;x

Stop it, Yoshi Wolly World didn't got robbed



                                                                                     

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darkknightkryta on 26 February 2016
pokoko said:
darkknightkryta said:

I thought I responded to this but I didn't :P.  The bigger question is, why do you think Shane is a bigger draw than Jericho?  Back when serious Jericho came back, he was the top man in the company.  Plus Shane hasn't been on T.V. in a long time.  Shane was featured in majour fueds.  Jericho was majour fueds.  Heel Jericho is the only fued that makes sense against the Undertaker.  That or I'd have Kevin Owens against Undertaker.  A little bit of Underbiker vs Owens would actually be pretty amazing.  Undertaker can dust off his mic skills, and Owens will be able to pull off a great match.

There is no question in mind that Shane returning is a much bigger casual draw than Jericho vs. Taker.  I don't think it's even close.  Jericho would need months to get into a storyline position where he felt like a threat to Taker.  Otherwise, everyone would just assume that it's another win for the Undertaker and another loss for Jericho.  Shane taking RAW from Steph/HHH, on the other hand, is an instant storyline draw because no one knows what is going to happen.  Speculation is all over the place.

BasilZero said:

So they are pushing Big Show VS Kevin Owens.....

 

So.........


Triple H VS Roman Reigns - World Heavyweight Title

Kevin Owens VS Big Show - Intercontinental Title

New Days VS League of Nations - Tag Team Titles

Kalisto VS ???? - United States title

Charlotte VS ???? - Diva's Title

Dean Ambrose VS Brock Lesnar

The Undertaker VS Shane McMahon

The Dudley Boys vs The Usos

 

No program for Wyatts, AJ Styles, Chris Jericho, Dolph Ziggler, Sin Cara, Cesaro (who apparently is back), Sandow, Los Matadores, StarDust, The Acension, R-Truth, Goldust.

 

What the hell man!?

I have no idea why they'd think anyone cares about Big Show.  I don't hate the guy but the idea of putting a title on him now is ridiculous.

The Wyatts have become a running joke because they have no credibility.  

Kalisto vs Del Rio should have been the Mania feud for Dallas, of all places.  If they're smart, they'll bring up Joe or Sami from NXT in a surprise challenge.  

I really have no clue what the end-game is for Y2AJ.

HHH vs. Reigns needs a swerve badly.  Rollins returning, for example.  Something.  Otherwise, the booing for Reigns winning will be incredible--actually, I kind of want to see that.

Except at no point was Shane ever bigger than Jericho.  And this random build for Shane is better than turning Jericho heel and have him go 6 weeks of heel Jericho?   It'll be almost as good as the stuff Shawn was doing before his match against Taker back in 05.    Shane hasn't been in the WWE for what? 6 years?  They have to spend 6 weeks trying to build Shane up as a threat.  You can't.  He's not a threat.  He never was.  There's a reason all of Shane's matches are "extreme rules" matches.  Cause he's not credible.  Jericho carried the company on his back back in 05/06 (Whenever it was).  Shane's carried nothing. 

On another note, Big Show needs to retire.  Unless he wants to start wrestling like he was when he was ECW champ, be done.  He hasn't contributed anything in 5 years.  He's slowed down considerably.  He doesn't do any suplexes anymore.  He doesn't use any holds/submissions.  He can't carry a match.  He's a million dollars that should be going to younger talent who can produce.



bunchanumbers on 26 February 2016

I'll be incredibly disappointed if the Wyatt Family end up being jobbers for more over the hill fogeys at the Mania. I'm already disappointed with what they go through on a weekly basis. I don't know how they could catch lightning in a bottle then smash the bottle like they did with them.



pokoko on 26 February 2016
darkknightkryta said:

Except at no point was Shane ever bigger than Jericho.  And this random build for Shane is better than turning Jericho heel and have him go 6 weeks of heel Jericho?   It'll be almost as good as the stuff Shawn was doing before his match against Taker back in 05.    Shane hasn't been in the WWE for what? 6 years?  They have to spend 6 weeks trying to build Shane up as a threat.  You can't.  He's not a threat.  He never was.  There's a reason all of Shane's matches are "extreme rules" matches.  Cause he's not credible.  Jericho carried the company on his back back in 05/06 (Whenever it was).  Shane's carried nothing. 

On another note, Big Show needs to retire.  Unless he wants to start wrestling like he was when he was ECW champ, be done.  He hasn't contributed anything in 5 years.  He's slowed down considerably.  He doesn't do any suplexes anymore.  He doesn't use any holds/submissions.  He can't carry a match.  He's a million dollars that should be going to younger talent who can produce.

Yes, Shane McMahon returning in 2016 to take RAW away from Stephanie and Triple-H is bigger than Jericho, who has been putting over new talent for the last several years, suddenly trying to build himself as a threat to the Undertaker at Wrestlemania.  If he had months to position himself, maybe, but right now?  No way.  

This isn't about wrestling.  Wrestlemania always tries to extend beyond wrestling, which is why they bring in guys like The Rock.  They want it to be dramatic and impactful.  The power struggle between Shane and the rest of his family is going to be how they hook the casual wrestling fan.  It's instant heat.  The 2016 version of Jericho, on the other hand, would need significant work to match that.

The crowd reactions here say it all.



darkknightkryta on 28 February 2016
pokoko said:
darkknightkryta said:

Except at no point was Shane ever bigger than Jericho.  And this random build for Shane is better than turning Jericho heel and have him go 6 weeks of heel Jericho?   It'll be almost as good as the stuff Shawn was doing before his match against Taker back in 05.    Shane hasn't been in the WWE for what? 6 years?  They have to spend 6 weeks trying to build Shane up as a threat.  You can't.  He's not a threat.  He never was.  There's a reason all of Shane's matches are "extreme rules" matches.  Cause he's not credible.  Jericho carried the company on his back back in 05/06 (Whenever it was).  Shane's carried nothing. 

On another note, Big Show needs to retire.  Unless he wants to start wrestling like he was when he was ECW champ, be done.  He hasn't contributed anything in 5 years.  He's slowed down considerably.  He doesn't do any suplexes anymore.  He doesn't use any holds/submissions.  He can't carry a match.  He's a million dollars that should be going to younger talent who can produce.

Yes, Shane McMahon returning in 2016 to take RAW away from Stephanie and Triple-H is bigger than Jericho, who has been putting over new talent for the last several years, suddenly trying to build himself as a threat to the Undertaker at Wrestlemania.  If he had months to position himself, maybe, but right now?  No way.  

This isn't about wrestling.  Wrestlemania always tries to extend beyond wrestling, which is why they bring in guys like The Rock.  They want it to be dramatic and impactful.  The power struggle between Shane and the rest of his family is going to be how they hook the casual wrestling fan.  It's instant heat.  The 2016 version of Jericho, on the other hand, would need significant work to match that.

The crowd reactions here say it all.

Except randomly Shane vs Undertaker, Undertaker who's a face right now I might add, makes perfect sense?  It doesn't.  The overarching problem is WWE seriously iced their booking.  Shane coming back is bigger than Jericho.  Shane vs Undertaker in what's going to be a haphazadly thrown together fued isn't.  It devalues Undertaker, and Jericho vs Undertaker would have worked just as well as Shawn vs Undertaker 11 years ago (Holy shit it's been 11 years).  The overarching problem that I eluded to is their godamn insistence to put Reigns over.  Because of their insanity (Cause that's what it is at this point), they moved HHH into a fued with Reigns, and now has to pull double duty to even make Shane coming back make sense.  Shane vs HHH is what the match should be.  It makes sense, and is easy to build.  Shane vs Undertaker isn't going to get built.  It's going to be Shane vs Vince/HHH/Stephanie featuring the Undertaker.  This entire card is being thown together by idiots and I hope Vince fires everyone who booked Wrestlemania this year.  Hell Kevin Owens vs Undertaker would be make Undertaker more interesting than what we're going to get for the next month.



darkknightkryta on 29 February 2016
BasilZero said:
darkknightkryta said:

Except randomly Shane vs Undertaker, Undertaker who's a face right now I might add, makes perfect sense?  It doesn't.  The overarching problem is WWE seriously iced their booking.  Shane coming back is bigger than Jericho.  Shane vs Undertaker in what's going to be a haphazadly thrown together fued isn't.  It devalues Undertaker, and Jericho vs Undertaker would have worked just as well as Shawn vs Undertaker 11 years ago (Holy shit it's been 11 years).  The overarching problem that I eluded to is their godamn insistence to put Reigns over.  Because of their insanity (Cause that's what it is at this point), they moved HHH into a fued with Reigns, and now has to pull double duty to even make Shane coming back make sense.  Shane vs HHH is what the match should be.  It makes sense, and is easy to build.  Shane vs Undertaker isn't going to get built.  It's going to be Shane vs Vince/HHH/Stephanie featuring the Undertaker.  This entire card is being thown together by idiots and I hope Vince fires everyone who booked Wrestlemania this year.  Hell Kevin Owens vs Undertaker would be make Undertaker more interesting than what we're going to get for the next month.

 

I think Taker is considered a "Tweener" now especially with what happened with Brock Lesnar.

Brock Lesnar was literally the face of their last program.

Would love if they did a late 1990s style Ministry Undertaker run again but with a few other henchmen.

The Wyatts could potentially feud against this new ministry of darkness and then merge together kinda like how The Brood got absorbed by the Ministry.

So Undertaker was heel against the Wyatts at Survivor Series?  :P