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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Prophetic 2005 Lost Garden article: who else has read it?

Final-Fan on 08 October 2007

So I was bouncing around Penny Arcade's news archives (don't ask why, I've already forgotten) and on 9/21/2005 Tycho linked to an article on some site called Lost Garden, commenting, "That is probably the most interesting article I've ever read." Now I don't worship these guys like I understand a lot of people do but I have some respect for Tycho's opinions so I was on that like white on rice.

The article is called "Nintendo's Genre Innovation Strategy: Thoughts on the Revolution's new controller". I won't reproduce the whole thing here, but basically it's a treatise on the behavior and trends of the entire video game industry, as well as Nintendo's entire business model and grand strategy, and how that relates to the then-new Revolution controller. For me, at least, it's one of those essays that one reads and realizes "Oh my god that's absolutely true; I feel as if the clouds have parted and now I see all that was darkened in bright light."

Even though the author doesn't say so, the treatise even provides an explanation as to why Nintendo had historically been less welcoming of third parties (and it's not because of simple monopolistic practices).

This thing is over two years old now, but there is nothing that has happened in the intervening time to negate any of his points IMO, and several new examples have come up to strengthen his points. I don't know if I agree 100% with his arguments, but I think that he comes very, very close to the truth.

So I am curious as to how many of you are already familiar with this -- and for those of you who are not, what do you think of it?

[edit:  forgot one little detail.  http://lostgarden.com/2005/09/nintendos-genre-innovation-strategy.html ]



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Louie on 08 October 2007

Could you give us the link please?

I´d like to read it but I cannot find it.



Final-Fan on 08 October 2007
Louie said:
Could you give us the link please?

I´d like to read it but I cannot find it.

Fixed.  Also, thanks for the heads up!



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan on 08 October 2007

Is there really only one person other than me who cares in the least about this article?!



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

celine on 08 October 2007

Very very good article. Thanks.

Here a interesting paragraph :

" As a side note, folks who argue Nintendo should just make games for other platforms are completely missing the point. Nintendo needs to control their hardware platform in order to force innovation to occur in the control mechanisms. Other console manufacturers who rely on the hardcore audiences and standardized genres don’t see this need. They would happily standardize the console platform and make it into a commodity. Microsoft has historically made major comments about having one universal development platform.

The moment Nintendo loses control over their hardware, they lose a major competitive advantage in terms of creating new genres. "

If Nintendo go out  hardware gaming business, they will go out gaming business.



 “In the entertainment business, there are only heaven and hell, and nothing in between and as soon as our customers bore of our products, we will crash.”  Hiroshi Yamauchi

TAG:  Like a Yamauchi pimp slap delivered by Il Maelstrom; serving it up with style.

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Final-Fan on 08 October 2007

Well, in this case I should have been asleep too when I posted the article -- I think it was 3 AM.

I believe he said that Mario was such a genre king that Mario 64 dominated the very genre it created. But it has not been a genre that Nintendo has continued to participate in as they have with the other examples he named. Sunshine did not have the kind of dominance that Pokemon or Mario Party do, and even if it did, it's only one game since 1996.

Galaxy may do the same thing: be a game that will blow away all competition for years to come, yet have no follow-up from Nintendo.



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

homelesscarl on 08 October 2007

See, everyone should buy a Wii so there will still be video games in the future. Or else you will all play the Xbox 720 with no controler innovations!! j/k, or am I?



I am Daemon. I am the Word.

Final-Fan on 08 October 2007
RolStoppable said:

The risk of having your game not becoming king of the genre goes up. The competition is simply greatly increased. Mario is a great game, but would it own the entire genre if it were forced to compete against Jax and Daxter, Sly Cooper, Prince of Persia and others?

This is the part I am talking about, I know there have only been two Mario 3D platformers in ten years.

Would Mario stand a chance against Jak, Sly, PoP (what's this game doing in this question anyway, I wouldn't put it into platformers) and others? I say yes.

Super Mario 64 owned the genre even with games like Banjo-Kazooie, Donkey Kong 64 and Banjo-Tooie released. Although Super Mario Sunshine wasn't as revolutionary as SM64 back then, it still offered a unique gameplay experience, unmatched by any other platformer in the 6th gen.

But maybe the self proclaimed "hardcore" gamers see this totally different and Mario is totally out of date? Maybe that's what the author meant.


Mario is undoubtedly the "best in class" platformer, but I think that the other examples are something else entirely:

Pokemon -- I struggle to even name another collecting/cockfighting/RPG game of this type.

Mario Party -- No one is even close to Nintendo in this genre AFAIK. Rayman is about the best attempt I've seen.

And Brain Training.

Mario games, on the other hand, face actual, serious competition (eventually) even if no games are their equal.



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

johnlucas on 08 October 2007
celine said:

Very very good article. Thanks.

Here a interesting paragraph :

" As a side note, folks who argue Nintendo should just make games for other platforms are completely missing the point. Nintendo needs to control their hardware platform in order to force innovation to occur in the control mechanisms. Other console manufacturers who rely on the hardcore audiences and standardized genres don’t see this need. They would happily standardize the console platform and make it into a commodity. Microsoft has historically made major comments about having one universal development platform.

The moment Nintendo loses control over their hardware, they lose a major competitive advantage in terms of creating new genres. "

If Nintendo go out hardware gaming business, they will go out gaming business.


My viewpoint to the letter. I told a friend this personally. Control is Nintendo's greatest strength. To control the process and development of hardware and software, of machine and game, of controller and on-screen play, THIS is why they are the bedrock of the industry and are able to shape the game the way they do.

This is why the comment from a Nintendo executive saying "the moment Nintendo leaves the hardware business is the day Nintendo leaves the software business". Don't know if that was Yamauchi or Iwata (probably Yamauchi) but it's the truth. The greatest exclusivity there is is those of the Nintendo brand. NO ONE else will ever see those games on another system.

When you look at the time in the 80s before the Famicom/NES with games like Donkey Kong and the quality of the game in look and play between the different systems, this will become crystal clear. Perhaps this is why Nintendo wanted to make their own consoles to begin with. Looking at how poor their games were on other systems. Outside of the initial Color TV Game I think this is what further compelled Nintendo to make their own hardware. And thank God Coleco put Donkey Kong on the Adam on the 1984 CES tradeshow pissing off Atari in the process. Nintendo was forced to go it all alone and gaming could never be more thankful for that turn of events.

John Lucas 



Words from the Official VGChartz Idiot

WE ARE THE NATION...OF DOMINATION!

 

Final-Fan on 08 October 2007

Final bump, then I let it die.

Also, Rol, now that I think about it, weren't his examples more in the line of examples of recent Nintendo games that have successfully created new genres? Sunshine certainly didn't do that, and Mario 64 is reaching a little far back to use as an example.



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom!