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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey revealed for Nintendo DS

theprof00 said:
Xen said:
Aiemond said:
Soriku said:

From GAF:

Producer/Original Concept/Character and Devil Design: KANEKO THE DEVIL PAINTER

Director: Eiji Ishida (Chief Designer for SMT3/Raidou/Raidou2)

Scenario: Shogo Isogai (SMT2/SMTif/DevilSummoner/SoulHackers/SMT3/Raidou/Trauma series)

Composer: MEGURO THE COMPOSER OF GOODNESS

It's official: anyone now trying to bash this game needs their SMT license revoked. This game is going to be godly.

 

As for what it is, amost no games in Japan get SMT in their names, that is a western thing. I think SMT, SMT2, SMT3 and If were the only ones to do so. I think this, plus the old school mainline style makes it seem like it may be the true smt4. Question is, how long into the game is it till the world ends?

 

Also, this again confirms that DS is the rpg system. Japan has embraced it and everyone needs to finally accept the truth. Stop trying to predict PS360 everytime atlus teaser comes out, they canned p4 on HD for a reason.

Definetely.

I don't really care about RPG's on the PS3 now - mainly because DS/PS2/PS1/SNES and soon PSP provide me with the same experience... who gives a shit about graphics when you have all this gameplay shoved in... with Shoji Meguro as the icing on the demon cake.

I agree, but DS is a little light when it comes to features. I mean, most of the best RPGs don't even use a stylus (which is an example of the DS install base being a factor as they could easily be on PSP), scenery and images are reused to the point a mundanity, and there is just a general feeling of limitation for the console. Don't get me wrong, there are some great games on it, but I am still amped as ever for new persona on PStriple, and other godly games like ff13 and versus. They just give me all the same features of the DS games and none of the negatives.

To any noobs who don't know, I play my DS almost constantly when away from home. It is one of my top 3 consoles of all time, just ahead of SNES and just short of ps2. It's just that a lot of games really remind me of what they could have been..

Your not going to get alot of those for some simple reasons: Japan says no. Japan embraced handhelds; this is why alot of the prgs are there, and now that the rpg fan userbase is established there is zero reason for companies to move from psp/ds development (DS more than psp, but psp does have good rpg software sales for a decent amount of titles). You may be amped, but you will not get this for a long time. And, the number one feature that DS/PSP has that PS3 does not have is the one that is the most important in japan: portability. You can play it when riding the train, you can play it at lunch, you can play it while hanging out, you can play it whenever you havge downtime. Even better, it takes zero living room space. I guess the last thing is cost. DS costs less, the games tend to cost less and the development tends to cost less. Japan's economy is worse than ours right now and prolly will be for awhile. There are lots of reasons for this, but this thread is not about those.

 

You can wish for what could have been, but remember, just because you want to have an HD console rpg does not mean thats what the majority of consumers want. Right now, I like my handheld ones better than any of the HD RPGs that have come out. This includes LO, SO, ToV (thought it is better than some of the handheld ones I have played, but it does not top all of them). And since you do play your ds alot and like it, don't look a gifthorse in the mouth: sales of rpgs are declining and the DS almost assuradly kept them alive.

 

I guess the last thing I would say is this: If I could have the HD graphics without giving anything else up I would take it. I like better graphics, but I also realize how the market is. My dream console would be wii mote (no it does not have to be used for all games, but some it is good for like fps) + HD graphics that communicates with a handheld so I can play the same game when I have to go out. I personally would give up the portability in fact if I could just have the mote style input + the HD graphic rpgs. But, with costs as they are now there is no way I would risk that.

 

Edit: The portability is what prevents them from going to the wii I believe. This really is huge.



Now Playing: The Witcher (PC)

Consoles Owned: NES, SNES, N64, PS1, PS2, Wii, Xbox 360, Game Boy, DS

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@Xen,
perhaps DS costs are even less than wii costs.

And it's not just the wii either, there just seems to be this idea that no handheld games should make it to any of the consoles, even through emulation or direct port. Sony and Nintendo have this belief that they should be separate, which really bugs me. I'm probably not looking at the big picture though. They are both very successful businesses with lots of skilled, experienced business people.



theprof00 said:
@Daz, I should buy Knights in the Nightmare?

Oh definitely!! The money is well spent on the artbook alone (I've got the Special Edition), but the game is very good :) Not awesome, but very good ;)

 

BTW, to the ones saying "SMT milking etc etc", contrary to the Final Fantasy universe and its initial philosophy, the SMT universe allows a huge number of possibilities, spin-offs, so on.

It's a good milking, contrary to Final Fantasy Universe.



     

 

theprof00 said:
@Xen,
perhaps DS costs are even less than wii costs.

And it's not just the wii either, there just seems to be this idea that no handheld games should make it to any of the consoles, even through emulation or direct port. Sony and Nintendo have this belief that they should be separate, which really bugs me. I'm probably not looking at the big picture though. They are both very successful businesses with lots of skilled, experienced business people.

@Xen, and the Golden sun thing: don't forget DS and DSL have the GBA slot :P

 

Now, I will say this about Sony now: They are bad a business. This is what got them into the mess they are in now. They became arrogant, did not read the market correct and just generally fucked up. Not only that, other divisions were doing bad and SCE was helping to offset that. Now, Stringer had his hands tied due to the old guard (CEO is accountable to the board. If he did too much and they did not like it, he'd be kicked) but now seems to be in charge. I think he is a good business man, I think he will do good and help Sony to do better. But, it will take a bit of time and they can't die in the mean time (unlikely but possible: whole company is sick, it is not just one division. Also, big companies are harder to turn around compared with smaller one). Lastly, on PSP: The bigger technological item does not usually win the mass market. When it came out everyone said it would beat the DS but they did not factor in history or really even look at how the market works. Not only that, piracy helped kill it for awhile. It is doing better now, and making Sony money, but if they had read the market better when they were making it, they could have done much better.

 

Nintendo right now has a good model and a good strategy. They totally screwed up in the 64 era (which led into the GC). Why did they screw up? Same reason Sony did this gen: they thought they could do whatever they wanted and a good competitor came out against them. Iwata though, is good at reading the market and taking smart risks (and ones that may not be good are low budget enough to not kill the company). Nintendo is in good shape atm, and will be unless Iwata makes a large blunder (he could, but I don't think he will as his personality and style is different than the previous CEO (who did have an attitude like the Sony old guard. Yes I know his name, no I can't spell it so I am not going to try :P).

 

 



Now Playing: The Witcher (PC)

Consoles Owned: NES, SNES, N64, PS1, PS2, Wii, Xbox 360, Game Boy, DS

Aiemond said:
theprof00 said:
@Xen,
perhaps DS costs are even less than wii costs.

And it's not just the wii either, there just seems to be this idea that no handheld games should make it to any of the consoles, even through emulation or direct port. Sony and Nintendo have this belief that they should be separate, which really bugs me. I'm probably not looking at the big picture though. They are both very successful businesses with lots of skilled, experienced business people.

@Xen, and the Golden sun thing: don't forget DS and DSL have the GBA slot :P

 

Now, I will say this about Sony now: They are bad a business. This is what got them into the mess they are in now. They became arrogant, did not read the market correct and just generally fucked up. Not only that, other divisions were doing bad and SCE was helping to offset that. Now, Stringer had his hands tied due to the old guard (CEO is accountable to the board. If he did too much and they did not like it, he'd be kicked) but now seems to be in charge. I think he is a good business man, I think he will do good and help Sony to do better. But, it will take a bit of time and they can't die in the mean time (unlikely but possible: whole company is sick, it is not just one division. Also, big companies are harder to turn around compared with smaller one). Lastly, on PSP: The bigger technological item does not usually win the mass market. When it came out everyone said it would beat the DS but they did not factor in history or really even look at how the market works. Not only that, piracy helped kill it for awhile. It is doing better now, and making Sony money, but if they had read the market better when they were making it, they could have done much better.

 

Nintendo right now has a good model and a good strategy. They totally screwed up in the 64 era (which led into the GC). Why did they screw up? Same reason Sony did this gen: they thought they could do whatever they wanted and a good competitor came out against them. Iwata though, is good at reading the market and taking smart risks (and ones that may not be good are low budget enough to not kill the company). Nintendo is in good shape atm, and will be unless Iwata makes a large blunder (he could, but I don't think he will as his personality and style is different than the previous CEO (who did have an attitude like the Sony old guard. Yes I know his name, no I can't spell it so I am not going to try :P).

 

 

I agree with most of it, but disagree that they are a bad business, because despite having posted a loss recently (due to the bad economy) they have done remarkably well. Sony hopes for dominating an entire industry with every new product they make, but that doesn't mean they made a mistake if they don't "win".

MS runs their business in a similar way. But MS has Windows. Sony wants a windows, and they can only do it by trying their hand at everything. BR isn't Windows now, but it has a very good chance.



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theprof00 said:
Aiemond said:
theprof00 said:
@Xen,
perhaps DS costs are even less than wii costs.

And it's not just the wii either, there just seems to be this idea that no handheld games should make it to any of the consoles, even through emulation or direct port. Sony and Nintendo have this belief that they should be separate, which really bugs me. I'm probably not looking at the big picture though. They are both very successful businesses with lots of skilled, experienced business people.

@Xen, and the Golden sun thing: don't forget DS and DSL have the GBA slot :P

 

Now, I will say this about Sony now: They are bad a business. This is what got them into the mess they are in now. They became arrogant, did not read the market correct and just generally fucked up. Not only that, other divisions were doing bad and SCE was helping to offset that. Now, Stringer had his hands tied due to the old guard (CEO is accountable to the board. If he did too much and they did not like it, he'd be kicked) but now seems to be in charge. I think he is a good business man, I think he will do good and help Sony to do better. But, it will take a bit of time and they can't die in the mean time (unlikely but possible: whole company is sick, it is not just one division. Also, big companies are harder to turn around compared with smaller one). Lastly, on PSP: The bigger technological item does not usually win the mass market. When it came out everyone said it would beat the DS but they did not factor in history or really even look at how the market works. Not only that, piracy helped kill it for awhile. It is doing better now, and making Sony money, but if they had read the market better when they were making it, they could have done much better.

 

Nintendo right now has a good model and a good strategy. They totally screwed up in the 64 era (which led into the GC). Why did they screw up? Same reason Sony did this gen: they thought they could do whatever they wanted and a good competitor came out against them. Iwata though, is good at reading the market and taking smart risks (and ones that may not be good are low budget enough to not kill the company). Nintendo is in good shape atm, and will be unless Iwata makes a large blunder (he could, but I don't think he will as his personality and style is different than the previous CEO (who did have an attitude like the Sony old guard. Yes I know his name, no I can't spell it so I am not going to try :P).

 

 

I agree with most of it, but disagree that they are a bad business, because despite having posted a loss recently (due to the bad economy) they have done remarkably well. Sony hopes for dominating an entire industry with every new product they make, but that doesn't mean they made a mistake if they don't "win".

MS runs their business in a similar way. But MS has Windows. Sony wants a windows, and they can only do it by trying their hand at everything. BR isn't Windows now, but it has a very good chance.

The model is bad. They lose money on all divisions. Good companies can read the market and survive times like this with minimal losses. Sony did not and the mess they are in is because of this. So, right now, they are a bad business, but like I said, Stringer has the potential to turn it around.

 

As for making every product to win, that is not always the point. it is nice to win and make profit because you win, but it is also a good strategy to find an underserved market and target them with a specific product. But, going from first place in marketshare to last place WHILE losing money is a very bad thing. It is one thing to lose it because doing so would kill your bottom line for a long time (competitor is outspending etc) but it is another to have total dominance, massive profits and then turn around and lose it all.



Now Playing: The Witcher (PC)

Consoles Owned: NES, SNES, N64, PS1, PS2, Wii, Xbox 360, Game Boy, DS

I think I have more of a dispute with your language more than what you are saying.

I don't think they are a bad business or have a bad business model. Rather, I think their business model is ill-apt for this global economy. I think your point is that they should change their business model. But that is easier said than done. If they change, then what do they do when the market improves again? Switch again? Sometimes it is more important to be consistent than to adapt.

My point is, that most of the time the market is good, and their model is really good for that. It would be detrimental to change every time the market changed. You will lose brand image, you will confuse customers and you might even open the door to competitors while you open the door to a room full of highly competitive businesses and try to cut yourself a slice of the action.

As per your second paragraph. Sony didn't lose it all. They traded off a portion of one and got another. PS3 -> BR. Look, people are buying competing products because they are a lot cheaper. ANyone can tell you that. Sony's main competitors are companies that provide similar experiences at a cheaper price. Sony cannot compete with cheaper products because they have a lot of overhead. Sony is constantly in R&D and other companies generally are not. They simply take a product, find the cheapest they can make it, and then sell it for a price that they can make profit, even if only 300 million or so. One of the things Sony is known for is reliability. And if you try to compete, you will not only find yourself in a price war with smaller companies, but you will also guarantee that you will not be able to research new products for those new markets.

Yes, finding niche has been the key to a lot of very successful companies. But how many others have failed because of the same approach? In truth, successful companies usually start out as cheaper alternatives to more expensive products and build up their line from there. But once you get to the top you have to maintain it.

I find it strange that everyone is talking about Nintendo's strategy as the king of all strategies. Doing what Nintendo did is hard to replicate. Think about it, how many wii-like products have we seen in the past 10 years? The Ipod? Google? GPS? Hybrids? There's not many. For such a great strategy, you would think there would be more than just a few companies. You have to be in the right place and the right time, and you need to be lucky and willing enough to take big risks.



Soriku said:

From GAF:

Producer/Original Concept/Character and Devil Design: KANEKO THE DEVIL PAINTER

Director: Eiji Ishida (Chief Designer for SMT3/Raidou/Raidou2)

Scenario: Shogo Isogai (SMT2/SMTif/DevilSummoner/SoulHackers/SMT3/Raidou/Trauma series)

Composer: MEGURO THE COMPOSER OF GOODNESS

:O :O :O Finally a true SMT game! Atlus has answered my prayers. I wonder when it'll hit the US. This is the perfect excuse to replay Nocturne in first-person.



^ I think I'm going to do that as well. I'm also thinking about playing it on the hardest difficulty, but I'm not too sure if I can handle it.



Soriku said:


Anyway, can't wait to get P3FES and P4 for my birthday!

You'll have the best bday of your life