Natal tech demo didn't seem too accurate, but has potential, the vids showed it. Facial + Voice Recognition is a plus, seems like a PS Eye on steroids, if you don't believe me, look what the PS Eye can do on vids of EyePet, problem is not enough games for it. Another problem is it's an add-on, will MS ship this with every new 360? If so that will drive up the cost of the machine, and it won't change the fact that the current 30+million owners won't have Natal in hands. Speaking of cost, if this comes out at $200 like it's rumored, it'll fail. Plus am I the only that thing people look stupid just waving their arms around? Or driving and shifting gears......without a wheel and stick?

Wii Motion + looks good, doesn't seem like it's 1:1 though, but a major improvement from what we have now. Will the old games support it? I will have to say that Nintendo is in the best position though because their only problem is if older games will support the device, and that's not too big a problem to have to be perfectly honest. They just need to get more hardcore games out on the market. I know Nintendo fans are pissed because MS and Sony "copied" Nintendo and are offering their own motion solution.

Sony dildo, I mean wand lol - Looks the most accurate out of the 3, but does it require a camera AND an extra dildo? If so, will customers have to buy not 1, but 3 accessories? That is not gonna happen, also how do you move your character since there's no button on the wand? And like the 360's offering, it'll have the problem of being an add on, if Sony packs it in with the slim, then will the price still go down? How much will this add on cost? If it requires a camera that's already 40 bucks, if it's as much as a normal DS3, then that's a total of 90 bucks, if it requires two dildos and the camera that's $140 bucks, and it'll fail miserably.

 

We'll only know which motion solution is the best when ALL 3 are out, based on the tech demos (not videos), I say Natal is last, Motion+ is 2nd and Dildo is 1st, Natal probably has the most potential and Motion+ is in the best position right now.

 

You are both a little off. First of all, Natal has its own internal processor and operating system which takes the raw data, makes a little sense of it, and then sends it to the Xbox 360. Both the Wiimote and Sony wand just send information to the consoles, they are unable to perform any logic of their own.

Also, the Xbox 360 will have to receive a firmware update with all of the latest Natal libraries. Microsoft took some of the libraries (speech recognition for example) from the Windows 7 codebase and ported it to the Xbox 360.

Check out my thread on Natal/Sony Wand/Wiimote for more infortmation: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=75198

You replied before I finished editing again.. bah I need to not hit post before I'm done thinking

What jetrii said is basically what I was trying to say... I merely wasn't being very clear and didn't know exactly how to say it.  It's late and I should be in bed by now....

dahuman said: ssj12 said: You can't have hardware without software. Without software to tell our game consoles how to process the data collected from these devices they are worthless. and that's why I've mentioned a lot about the hell that's awaiting MS and Sony on the dev front, even after 2 and half years, a lot of devs don't know what the hell they are doing with the wiimote, now there are 2 compeletly new ones ready to screw with their heads again, it's gonna be baaaaaaaad =_=; and also why I don't think you'd ever see any truly great games anytime soon on those fronts.

Am I the only one that notices you're both forgetting that there is no analog attachment for the Wand >_> I barely saw any movement from where the guy was standing (game world not in person)  That and the fact that the PS Eye is not as accurate as IR when it came to the FPS mode... The movement thing was something Naz brought up in the live blog... I mean what good is a sword fighting adventure game if you can't move...

Next thing you have to bring up is, how many people actually has the PS Eye? how many of those same people will buy this wand?  How can Sony push users to buy this device so it can gain enough install base to actually be a stable platform for developers, or will it go down as just a novelty... How much will this set up even cost?  If you think about a PS Eye costs 40 dollars and a Wii remote is 40 dollars (unless its so advanced technology that it costs more then a Wii remote :P), based on that the ballpark figure is 80 dollars and no software to back this device up yet...

Same goes for Natal for that matter... Natal is far more advanced then the PS Eye but it's still got the same limitations the Eye by itself had... No way to really show which direction you want to move if you wanted to do an adventure game or something, but at least Natal has interesting software to show off how it works even if the software had some LOL tastic quirks.

Nintendo went the route of simple and effective and we're already seeing some great games come from the technology of WM+, hopefully the others will have good software showings in the future.

dahuman said: S.T.A.G.E. said: dahuman said: S.T.A.G.E. said: dahuman said: S.T.A.G.E. said: dahuman said: S.T.A.G.E. said: dahuman said: Stage, only to non tech savvy people would it seem that impressive, voice is done by software, any camera can scan full body, the difference is the tech in natal is high frame rate capture, not quiet as good as slow cam, but enough to capture general human movements fast enough with good precision at a higher resolution. all it is, is a pretty decent camera with a mic attached to it, rest is all software driven. It doesn't matter dude. That Milo game was only the beginning of a new era in HD motion sensing games. and what I'm trying to tell you is that it's just a more advanced version of the PSEye, don't hype it up only to fall disappointed soon, it's not worth it, better to keep it low. The PS eye needed a wii-mote looking sensor just to get the job done. Try this on for size...Natal can scan all four limbs properly in game. This means you can create more variety and innovation than the wii and Sony combined. I see nothing but disasters for future devs, and I'm usually right. The two virtual demonstations were amazing. The video package with multiple styles and phases was even more promising. Believe what you will. I cannot wait. I'm just telling you that you will be waiting for a long time, I never said the Natal was bad, I'm just trying to explain to people what it is and don't blow your head off with it. I can see adventure games with it, only instead of typing like you'd do in the old days, the scripts are now spoken, same idea with RPGs, I hope I don't see sports games with too much movement on it, people will get hurt really bad with fast drastic movements if they are not careful. Natal would be perfect with a game like Heavy Rain. Think about it for a second and get back to me. Heavy Rain isn't released yet so I wouldn't know unless I have access to the product, if you still remember this when it's released, we can discuss it then.

Look up heavy rain videos. You'll see that its basically a full cinematic game. They wouldn't have needed to mo-cap the game if they were using Natal for sure.

lol sorry, I'm just gonna stop posting after this, all I wanted to do was to give people a realistic view of how this might effect gaming, do they have potential? yes, they all do, only Nintendo is making it happen sooner, and the devs went through hell to get it right on the Wii. The same hell will happen to MS and Sony if they try to take it seriously, and that's a big IF, I hope they do, but it's going to take time, what you guys have seen during E3 will not truly happen for at least 3-5 years.

FilaBrasileiro said: Natal tech demo didn't seem too accurate, but has potential, the vids showed it. Facial + Voice Recognition is a plus, seems like a PS Eye on steroids, if you don't believe me, look what the PS Eye can do on vids of EyePet, problem is not enough games for it. Another problem is it's an add-on, will MS ship this with every new 360? If so that will drive up the cost of the machine, and it won't change the fact that the current 30+million owners won't have Natal in hands. Speaking of cost, if this comes out at $200 like it's rumored, it'll fail. Plus am I the only that thing people look stupid just waving their arms around? Or driving and shifting gears......without a wheel and stick?   Wii Motion + looks good, doesn't seem like it's 1:1 though, but a major improvement from what we have now. Will the old games support it? I will have to say that Nintendo is in the best position though because their only problem is if older games will support the device, and that's not too big a problem to have to be perfectly honest. They just need to get more hardcore games out on the market. I know Nintendo fans are pissed because MS and Sony "copied" Nintendo and are offering their own motion solution. Sony dildo, I mean wand lol - Looks the most accurate out of the 3, but does it require a camera AND an extra dildo? If so, will customers have to buy not 1, but 3 accessories? That is not gonna happen, also how do you move your character since there's no button on the wand? And like the 360's offering, it'll have the problem of being an add on, if Sony packs it in with the slim, then will the price still go down? How much will this add on cost? If it requires a camera that's already 40 bucks, if it's as much as a normal DS3, then that's a total of 90 bucks, if it requires two dildos and the camera that's $140 bucks, and it'll fail miserably.   We'll only know which motion solution is the best when ALL 3 are out, based on the tech demos (not videos), I say Natal is last, Motion+ is 2nd and Dildo is 1st, Natal probably has the most potential and Motion+ is in the best position right now.

1.) Comparing Natal's technology to the EyeToy is a joke, check out my thread to see why.

2.) Natal is based on Microsoft's own internal technology and technologies by other vendors which have already been proven to work well.

3.) People already look pretty stupid waving the Wii wand around, so I doubt anyone will care. All the arguments you are making could be made against the Sony wand.

4.) You've never used the Wii Motion Plus or seen it in person, saying that it doesn't look like 1:1 motion is just speculation and fanboyism.

5.) You've never used the Sony wand or seen it in person, saying that it is more accurate than the Wiimote is pure speculation and fanboyism.

6.) Calculate the cost of 4 Sony wands VS 1 Natal for the entire family.

7.) You're extremely uninformed about this topic.

S.T.A.G.E. said: dahuman said: S.T.A.G.E. said: dahuman said: S.T.A.G.E. said: dahuman said: S.T.A.G.E. said: dahuman said: S.T.A.G.E. said: dahuman said: Stage, only to non tech savvy people would it seem that impressive, voice is done by software, any camera can scan full body, the difference is the tech in natal is high frame rate capture, not quiet as good as slow cam, but enough to capture general human movements fast enough with good precision at a higher resolution. all it is, is a pretty decent camera with a mic attached to it, rest is all software driven. It doesn't matter dude. That Milo game was only the beginning of a new era in HD motion sensing games. and what I'm trying to tell you is that it's just a more advanced version of the PSEye, don't hype it up only to fall disappointed soon, it's not worth it, better to keep it low. The PS eye needed a wii-mote looking sensor just to get the job done. Try this on for size...Natal can scan all four limbs properly in game. This means you can create more variety and innovation than the wii and Sony combined. I see nothing but disasters for future devs, and I'm usually right. The two virtual demonstations were amazing. The video package with multiple styles and phases was even more promising. Believe what you will. I cannot wait. I'm just telling you that you will be waiting for a long time, I never said the Natal was bad, I'm just trying to explain to people what it is and don't blow your head off with it. I can see adventure games with it, only instead of typing like you'd do in the old days, the scripts are now spoken, same idea with RPGs, I hope I don't see sports games with too much movement on it, people will get hurt really bad with fast drastic movements if they are not careful. Natal would be perfect with a game like Heavy Rain. Think about it for a second and get back to me. Heavy Rain isn't released yet so I wouldn't know unless I have access to the product, if you still remember this when it's released, we can discuss it then. Look up heavy rain videos. You'll see that its basically a full cinematic game. They wouldn't have needed to mo-cap the game if they were using Natal for sure.

uh, you can say that about a lot of games, but how would you run without getting tired as hell, it's not a fitness game after all....

MaxwellGT2000 said: Am I the only one that notices you're both forgetting that there is no analog attachment for the Wand >_> I barely saw any movement from where the guy was standing (game world not in person) That and the fact that the PS Eye is not as accurate as IR when it came to the FPS mode... The movement thing was something Naz brought up in the live blog... I mean what good is a sword fighting adventure game if you can't move... Next thing you have to bring up is, how many people actually has the PS Eye? how many of those same people will buy this wand? How can Sony push users to buy this device so it can gain enough install base to actually be a stable platform for developers, or will it go down as just a novelty... How much will this set up even cost? If you think about a PS Eye costs 40 dollars and a Wii remote is 40 dollars (unless its so advanced technology that it costs more then a Wii remote :P), based on that the ballpark figure is 80 dollars and no software to back this device up yet... Same goes for Natel for that matter... Natel is far more advanced then the PS Eye but it's still got the same limitations the Eye by itself had... No way to really show which direction you want to move if you wanted to do an adventure game or something, but at least Natel has interesting software to show off how it works even if the software had some LOL tastic quirks. Nintendo went the route of simple and effective and we're already seeing some great games come from the technology of WM+, hopefully the others will have good software showings in the future.

Agreed, Sony will need to address how a person moves with the dildo, and so will MS with Natal, you don't expect someone to just walk for the hell of it right?
The add on thing is a pain, no add on has ever been succesfull, if Sony and MS want to be succesful they'll have to pack it in with their consoles, either driving the price up or removing the standard controller, which would piss off the hardcore AND developers. PSEye has been out for how long now? And while there are some nice, cool extras like in EoJ, Burnout, Buzz and Singstar, there are barely any games made for it. Same thing happened with Eyetoy where only SCE supported it. Add-ons have a hard time selling, most add ons fail and most developers do not develop software for add ons.

And while the dildo seems to be the most accurate and natal seems to have the most potential, WM+ is in the best position, by far.

 

jetrii said: FilaBrasileiro said: Natal tech demo didn't seem too accurate, but has potential, the vids showed it. Facial + Voice Recognition is a plus, seems like a PS Eye on steroids, if you don't believe me, look what the PS Eye can do on vids of EyePet, problem is not enough games for it. Another problem is it's an add-on, will MS ship this with every new 360? If so that will drive up the cost of the machine, and it won't change the fact that the current 30+million owners won't have Natal in hands. Speaking of cost, if this comes out at $200 like it's rumored, it'll fail. Plus am I the only that thing people look stupid just waving their arms around? Or driving and shifting gears......without a wheel and stick?   Wii Motion + looks good, doesn't seem like it's 1:1 though, but a major improvement from what we have now. Will the old games support it? I will have to say that Nintendo is in the best position though because their only problem is if older games will support the device, and that's not too big a problem to have to be perfectly honest. They just need to get more hardcore games out on the market. I know Nintendo fans are pissed because MS and Sony "copied" Nintendo and are offering their own motion solution. Sony dildo, I mean wand lol - Looks the most accurate out of the 3, but does it require a camera AND an extra dildo? If so, will customers have to buy not 1, but 3 accessories? That is not gonna happen, also how do you move your character since there's no button on the wand? And like the 360's offering, it'll have the problem of being an add on, if Sony packs it in with the slim, then will the price still go down? How much will this add on cost? If it requires a camera that's already 40 bucks, if it's as much as a normal DS3, then that's a total of 90 bucks, if it requires two dildos and the camera that's $140 bucks, and it'll fail miserably.   We'll only know which motion solution is the best when ALL 3 are out, based on the tech demos (not videos), I say Natal is last, Motion+ is 2nd and Dildo is 1st, Natal probably has the most potential and Motion+ is in the best position right now.   1.) Comparing Natal's technology to the EyeToy is a joke, check out my thread to see why. 2.) Natal is based on Microsoft's own internal technology and technologies by other vendors which have already been proven to work well. 3.) People already look pretty stupid waving the Wii wand around, so I doubt anyone will care. All the arguments you are making could be made against the Sony wand. 4.) You've never used the Wii Motion Plus or seen it in person, saying that it doesn't look like 1:1 motion is just speculation and fanboyism. 5.) You've never used the Sony wand or seen it in person, saying that it is more accurate than the Wiimote is pure speculation and fanboyism. 6.) Calculate the cost of 4 Sony wands VS 1 Natal for the entire family. 7.) You're extremely uninformed about this topic.

Take a chill pill pimp

1) Natal looks like PS Eye on steroids, yes it does, no I don't care to look at your thread.

2) Proven? Not really, it's a prototype and MS just finished the acquisition of the company recently.

3) Agree but people look stupidier waving their arms around without anything in their hands unless it's a game of boxing or MMA or something

4) You didn't watch E3 conferences?

5) You didn't watch E3 conferences?

6) WTF does this mean? I said both will probably be expensive and it'll probably be their downfall

7) As informed as you, so that means you're also extremely uninformed about this topic.