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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Can Halo 3 save Xbox 360 from Wii?

vanguardian1 said:
The Wii has it's problems, the 360 has it's own.

Let me just say this : Even if you're a core gamer, you can still be screwed by the 360's library, it's just a matter of game preferences. :p

Note : The 2 360 games I want are both from Japan. ;)

 Exactly.  Some people have defined a hardcore gamer as someone who only likes RTS and FPS games, which is not the case at all.  I played Halo 3 today, and it's definitely a confirmed NO BUY for me.  

 

As for Halo 3, it really does nothing to expand the user-base outside of its FPS image that the first Xbox had.  Lost Odyssey I think is a much more important for the broad success of the 360.  M$ has been needing to expand its market horizontally (across different genres).  Halo 3 will definitely expand it vertically to all the FPS loving nuts.

 

Right now I don't know any 360 owner who hates FPS games...  except for me.   



"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."  --Hermann Goering, leading Nazi party member, at the Nuremberg War Crime Trials 

 

Conservatives:  Pushing for a small enough government to be a guest in your living room, or even better - your uterus.

 

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my roommate hates fps and won't buy halo 3 (so i'm gonna have to buy it even though i don't own the system), but then again he hates fighting games including smash bros., loves mario kart double dash and super mario kart but hates mario kart 64, thinks the wii's motion controls are only good for sword fighting games and fps(which as stated earlier he hates), and yesterday told me he thought that the playstation 2 came out before the n64 and was very surprised when i said he's an idiot. all this and he loves video games. basically my point is my roommate is clearly insane and has no taste... and thus you can extrapolate that people who hate fps are also partially crazy.

just my take on things cuz i love fps but then again i love most genres of games.

 oh yes, my roommate also told me to trade in halo because i have halo 2 so there is no reason to own halo, and he said once i get halo 3 i should trade in halo 2 cuz there is no reason to own it. common sense is apparently completely missing in my good old roommate!



end of '08 predictions: wii - 43 million,  360 - 25 million, ps3 - 20 million

 

Games I've beat recently: Super Mario Galaxy, Knights of the Old Republic, Shadow of the Collossus

 

Proud owner of wii, gamecube, xbox, ps2, dreamcast, n64, snes, genesis, 3DO, nes, atari, intellivision, unisonic tournament 2000, and gameboy

FPS games are annoying in part because there are so many of them. The game market is literally flooded with them and the WWI/WWII ones are the most notorious offenders.

Don't get me wrong, I like some of them but since the Golden Eye/Perfect Dark days they've generally been getting more and more stale in my eyes. The genre doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Metroid Prime 3 is the closest thing to a change with the Wii's control scheme but MP3 is more of a hybrid FPS/Puzzle game so in many ways it's its own kind of game.

It's essentially the difference between horizontal and vertical improvement. Horizontal redefines the gameplay (much akin to how Smash Bros. redefined the Fighting genre) whereas vertical just makes the existing gameplay a bit better (Halo -> Halo 2 -> Halo 3). Halo has always been vertical even down to the first release where it just took a PC-style feature and made it a console one.

That's how I see it. YMMV.



Halo3 will be one of the driving forces of the 360, but not make it alone the winner this generation, the simple fact of the Japanese market prevents this, but this is territory we're all familiar with. While the two will share games both will for the most part draw from two very unique reserves of developers in their quest to acquire titles, the Wii, mostly Japanese developers, the 360, mostly Western developers. In this regard both are in competition with one another but still maintain respective niches allowing both as equally viable options in what many are calling the Wii60 generation.



@words of wisdom
i completely agree with you the fps genre is completely flooded these days, and especially WWII fps games. even with my annoyance of developers, especially on the 360, just flooding the market with fps i still look foward to the great games from that genre. and the halo series is definitely 3 of the best fps games ever.

in the days of the n64 my friends and i played multiplayer games a ton more than i do now so the days of goldeneye, turok 2, perfect dark i enjoyed more than these days of halo so i will probably always look on goldeneye as my favorite fps, but still the halo series is right up with those in quality. just because it doesn't do too much different and expand the genre very much or at all doesn't mean it isn't a great game. a game doesn't have to be a mario 64 or ocarina of time and change the way we play games to be great. i mean i doubt goldeneye did anything new other than being the most fun multiplayer game ever. but the fact that is was so fun is what made it amazing.

i totally agree with the need to innovate and bring new ideas and themes(done with WWII already) into the genre but still halo is amazing even without lots of innovation. and from what i've read halo 3 does seem to do several things that no game ever has done before, although they aren't really gameplay things.



end of '08 predictions: wii - 43 million,  360 - 25 million, ps3 - 20 million

 

Games I've beat recently: Super Mario Galaxy, Knights of the Old Republic, Shadow of the Collossus

 

Proud owner of wii, gamecube, xbox, ps2, dreamcast, n64, snes, genesis, 3DO, nes, atari, intellivision, unisonic tournament 2000, and gameboy

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Sqrl said:

@h2dk,

Your software comparison is out of context. Life of the console plays a big role in sales. Taking sales of one from year 2 and one from year 1 doesn't mean much when you consider that fact that libraries are significantly smaller in the early part of a consoles life and grow as the console ages.

Looking at July of this year and July of last year in the US we see this...

 

  360 - July 2006 Wii - July 2007
Week 1: 271,778 447,597
Week 2: 361,896 429,278
Week 3: 566,947 * 444,818
Week 4: 305,775 457,893
Mean:
376,599.0 444,896.5
 

*This week coincided with NCAA Footbal being released, which acounts for 293,330 units of software for the week for x360.

I will also point out the extreme amounts of variance in the 360 software sales compared to steady numbers from the Wii. I am not sure what the cause of this is but it doesn't seem coincidental.

In any case, we can even use your comparison to show how this sort of comparison is really not that bad for the Wii, which says a lot by itself...

Lets look at the last 10 weeks....

 
360Wii
1Sept 15th 731k 422k
2Sept 8th 872k560k
3Sept 1st 767k 789k
4Aug 25th 934k 466k
5Aug18th 1011k529k
6Aug 11th 305k 500k
7Aug 4th 348k 564k
8July 28th 462k 458k
9July 21st 669k 445k
10July 14th 369k429k
  Mean: 646.8k516.2k

 

Notable (Top 20) Software Releases by Week:
(Blue = Wii, Green = 360, Black = Both)

1) Skate(360), NHL '08 (360)
2) Stranglehold (360), Medal of Honor: Airborne (360)
3) Tiger PGA '08 (360 & Wii), Blue Dragon(360), Metroid Prime 3 (Wii)
4) Bioshock (360), Two Worlds(360)
5) Madden NFL '08 (360 & Wii)
6) Boogie (Wii)
7) Mario Strikers Charged (Wii)
8) NASCAR '08 (360)
9) NCAA Football '08 (360)
10) None

Ok for the analysis of this information: The chart shows that relative to the 360 the Wii is actually doing pretty well considering this is still its first year of release. The library is going to be much smaller and it has had far less time to get its name and its products recognized and get people thinking about them. So in that regards I think this chart is quite favorable to the Wii in terms of sales #'s.

Now when you look at the software release information I provided with the chart to give the chart more meaning I think my point becomes even more clear. The head start the 360 has gives it a nice advantage in the sheer number of releases being put out. In this sample we see the 360 get 11 releases in the 10 weeks while the Wii gets 5 releases in the same time span. Considering half as many new releases and only about 20% less software sales I would call that fabulous. But considering the fact that madden is essentially a 360 release in terms of effort put into the two products, the ratio is more like 3:1 than 2:1.

Now if this time next year the Wii is not seeing similar release situations that would be a cause for concern, but considering the head start the 360 had and the big titles released during this period for the console compared to the titles released for the Wii I would call these numbers very favorable for the Wii in light of the circumstances. The 360 has has a very good line-up over the last 10 weeks and to be putting up comparable numbers against that in its first year is a win in my book. And I am sure MS isn't upset about these sales numbers either =)


 This is all well and good (very good post, thanks) however, you have failed to take in to account that 2 of the top selling games for the Wii every month are "free" games.  Wii Sports comes with the console, yet it is counted in the software total.  Wii Play comes with a Wiimote ($40 for a Wiimote or $50 for Wiimote w/ game is a no brainer).

 

Lets take those "games" out and look at those same weeks in July

Week1    447,597 - 94,395 - 47,528 = 305,674

Week2    429,278 - 103,339 - 57,698 = 268,241

Week3    444,818 - 110,984 - 73,180 = 260,654

Week4   457,893 - 107,938 - 72,418 = 277,537 

or roughly 278,000 per week, nearly 100,000 per week less than the 360 in it's first July.  Now, take into account that by the end of the 360's first July, approximately 2,209,000 units were sold compared to Wii by the end of its first July has sold approximately 3,233,000 units.  The Wii had 50% more units on the market in the same time period, but sold 25% fewer games.  (Even if you keep Wii Play units counted, the average is still below 350,000 per week)

 

(If you do this for the past 10 weeks, the average is under 375,000 (under 420,000 including Wii Play))

 

I know we can argue semantics on what is considered a software sale, but if you truly want to compare apples to apples this is where it is at.  If we were to look at 3rd party sales alone, the difference would be staggering. 



No



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- - - > ¤ « ~ N i n t e n d o ~ » ¤ < - - -
Games purchased since December 30th 2006:
GBA:The Legend of Zelda:The Minish Cap
DS:Lunar Knights, Pokemon Diamond, The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass ,Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare, Hotel Dusk:Room 215, Mario vs DK 2: March of the Mini's and Picross DS
PS2: Devil May Cry 3:Dante's Awakening, Shadow of the Colosuss, Sega Mega Drive Collection, XIII , Sonic Mega Collection,Fifa 08 and Fifa 09.
GC:Fight Night Round 2
Wii VC:Super Mario 64 ,Lylat Wars ,Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest, Super Castlevania IV, Sonic the Hedgehog 2, Streets of Rage, Kirby's Adventure, Super Metroid, Super Mario Bros. 3, Mega Man 2Street Fighter 2 Turbo: Hyper Fighting,Wave Race 64 and Lost Winds

Wii: Sonic and the Secret Rings, Godfather:Blackhand Edition, Red Steel, Tony Hawks Downhill Jam, Eledees, Rayman Raving Rabbids, Mario Strikers Charged Football,Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, Super Mario Galaxy,House of the Dead 2 and 3 Return, Wii Fit, No More Heroes and Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

X360: Spider Man
PS3:
Resistance: Fall of Man

 

 

 

 

@h2dk

I agree with your logic but I can see the Wii fans coming back and saying that most people would have bought Wii Sports anyways (actually what's the ratio of Wii Sports sold in Japan to consoles sold there?). Wii Play though is correct, it's basically a $10 budget title that is being compared to $60 games on the 360, kinda ridiculous when you think about it but oh well.

To some people it's only the numbers that matter not what they really represent. That's why some of them can't understand why every third party isn't bending over backwards to put every game they have on the Wii (afterall they did that with the PS2 right?), dispite the fact that Nintendo takes a huge chunk of their system's software sales and top ten Wii third party games are extremely rare.  It's no wonder third parties the World over don't want a Nintendo console dominating as the billions in extra profit that Nintendo is seeing and will see in the future comes at their expense, that's regardless of them expanding the market.

Good luck in your argument though but it's kind of a losing proposition here, because no matter how much logic you use you'll be met with what is basically just blind fanboyism to the truth by many and the more valid points you make (and if you make too many) you'll start to see scores of Wii fans come in to take pot shots and basically attempt to overwhelm you until you just give up.  Sorry if I sound bitter but I've seen this play out so many times on here that it's a given that it will happen in this case.



Legend11 said:

@h2dk

I agree with your logic but I can see the Wii fans coming back and saying that most people would have bought Wii Sports anyways (actually what's the ratio of Wii Sports sold in Japan to consoles sold there?). Wii Play though is correct, it's basically a $10 budget title that is being compared to $60 games on the 360, kinda ridiculous when you think about it but oh well.

To some people it's only the numbers that matter not what they really represent. That's why some of them can't understand why every third party isn't bending over backwards to put every game they have on the Wii (afterall they did that with the PS2 right?), dispite the fact that Nintendo takes a huge chunk of their system's software sales and top ten Wii third party games are extremely rare. It's no wonder third parties the World over don't want a Nintendo console dominating as the billions in extra profit that Nintendo is seeing and will see in the future comes at their expense, that's regardless of them expanding the market.

Good luck in your argument though but it's kind of a losing proposition here, because no matter how much logic you use you'll be met with what is basically just blind fanboyism to the truth by many and the more valid points you make (and if you make too many) you'll start to see scores of Wii fans come in to take pot shots and basically attempt to overwhelm you until you just give up. Sorry if I sound bitter but I've seen this play out so many times on here that it's a given that it will happen in this case.


I have to say this is one of the most hypocritical posts you have ever made Legend. You talk about ignoring details and focusing on just the numbers, but that's exactly what you just did with this post. Wii gamers just like other gamers only buy good 3rd party games. It's the good games that have had success. You said yourself that to this point the Wii 3rd party games list has sucked. It may be improving very quickly, but if the good games are selling well and the bad games are selling like crap I fail to see the problem here?

High budget 3rd party Wii games with effort put into them sell well. Low budget crap like Boogie sells badly. It's the same deal with the Xbox 360. Why does the Xbox 360 have better software sales right now? Simply because it has more good games right now. In the future that won't be the case, but it's stupid to tell people Wii software sales suck because more people are buying Bioshock than Boogie. We are also looking at US software sales rather than worldwide, and in the US there are still more Xbox 360s than Wiis. A lot more in fact.

Even your numbers argument doesn't make sense considering there are still 33% more Xbox 360s than Wiis in America. So, to recap: What you are basically doing is comparing Boogie to Bioshock and saying because the crappy Wii games don't sell well the Wii 3rd party sales suck. Not only are you doing this but you are doing it using US sales as a reference where there are still many more Xbox 360s out there. I'm not saying 3rd party Wii sales have been stellar, but they shouldn't be very good right now either. If people were buying up the shovelware games then there would be a real concern for the future of the industry when the Wii has more than 50% of the market share. Thankfully they aren't, and the Wii games that don't suck have sold well.

Man, your logic blew me away Legend.



Actually, how about comparing Madden to Madden?? Are Wii60 owners choosing the better looking game whose controls haven't changed in years?..or are they going with the version that offers a new way to play..with, well, poorer visuals?
After all, aren't Madden purchasers in both console's demographic?

(thanks Legend, I always find these arguments amusing)