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17 companies sue Switzerland over Microsoft contract

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Soleron said:
Squilliam said:
...

But you couldn't exactly call it a straight up waste of money because they would have to have some personal gain for them to go ahead and sue the government. Also if Linux doesn't support one of the programs they want to run or requires training costs which are greater than the cost of the Windows Licences then they would be better off with Microsoft. Its quite likely that the cost per machine is $25 per year or so, which is probably not even going to pay for even one hour of training in Linux.

Yeah, Red Hat are suing because they think it'll get them a support contract. But in reality I think the government doesn't need one.

I don't think Linux requires ANY retraining for the average user. Most corporate users require office and e-mail, and they behave and look the same as the Windows apps for them. For the network admins you obviously need to replace Windows-trained ones with Linux ones but that's one employee in a hundred, right?

For compatibility issues that can't be resolved, in most cases all you would have to do is keep a few Windows workstations with the necessary app. If your company is one of the few where every computer needs such an app, then Linux is indeed not for them. But that's a minority, and shouldn't apply to any government.

This isn't a corporate license. They have specialised software for the police, hospitals, schools etc and it all has to work perfectly. So to transition to Linux at the very least they would have to convert all the branches software to work on the system. Office applications really do just scratch the surface here for the different software which needs to be run. I have never heard of a government making such a switch without a concerted effort to do so.

 



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Squilliam said:
...

This isn't a corporate license. They have specialised software for the police, hospitals, schools etc and it all has to work perfectly. So to transition to Linux at the very least they would have to convert all the branches software to work on the system. Office applications really do just scratch the surface here for the different software which needs to be run. I have never heard of a government making such a switch without a concerted effort to do so.

 

...yes. They would probably have to put in a similar amount of effort from XP to Vista though. It's not perfect; but in the long run it would save millions.



Why would a government want to use something else? That'd be stupid.

Government computers need to "just work"... you aren't going to train government officals to use linux... and you aren't even going to be able to train them how to modify their files so they'll be readable elsewhere.

It only makes sense for governments to use windows.

Furthermore it'd be stupidly expensive to transition over all the stuff to Linux/Mac OS anwyay.



I would like to note that Linux IT Specialist cost almost twice as much Windows IT Specialist.



"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."

Your theories are the worst kind of popular tripe, your methods are sloppy, and your conclusions are highly questionable! You are a poor scientist. Especially if you think the moon landing was faked.


ioi + 1

I'll leave this thread to others who know more than me. Im starting to make too many assumptions here.



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Kasz216 said:
Why would a government want to use something else? That'd be stupid.

Government computers need to "just work"... you aren't going to train government officals to use linux... and you aren't even going to be able to train them how to modify their files so they'll be readable elsewhere.

It only makes sense for governments to use windows.

Furthermore it'd be stupidly expensive to transition over all the stuff to Linux/Mac OS anwyay.


Government computers dont just need to "just work." They need to be secure and efficient enough to handle whatever tasks are at hand from monitoring governmental activities to being able to handle video conferences with other national leaders. Also tell me where you understand the costs of transitioning between OS to OS because the move for any government or company who refused to move to Vista are going to have a hell of a time moving from XP to 7 since it cannot simply upgrade the OS like the installer for Vista does. Expenses for these upgrades will be way cheaper even during the initial transition as no one has to upgrade PC hardware as they might have to moving from one Microsoft OS to another. Linux does not take half the resources needed to run even XP.

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Well, the US has done this in the past and gotten away with it regardless of lawsuits.

The USPS recently formed an alliance with Fed-Ex with a contract that was not up for bid. I agree that there should definitely be bidding over who should get the contract.

In the case of OS choice, the winning contract should be won based on a monetary value and a level of service guarantee with a penalty for failing to meet it.



What a waste.

All Red Hat is going to get out of this at best is a pyrrhic victory.  Even if they prove that this project had a legal obligation to go through a bidding process then the Swiss government is going to step back, put it through the bidding process, and select Microsoft again. 



Soleron said:

http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/red-hat-sues-switzerland-over-microsoft-monopoly-965

"£8 million a year to Microsoft, with no public bidding. And that's just the tip of the iceberg, say open source activists

Linux vendor Red Hat, and 17 other vendors, have protested a Swiss government contract given to Microsoft without any public bidding.

...

The Red Hat group has asked a Swiss federal court to overturn a three-year contract issued to Microsoft by the Swiss Federal Bureau for Building and Logistics, to provide Windows desktops and applications, with support and maintenance, for 14 million Swiss Franc (£8 million) each year. The contract, for "standardised workstations", was issued with no public bidding process, Red Hat's legal team reports in a blog - because the Swiss agency asserted there was no sufficient alternative to Microsoft products.

Red Hat and others have made the obvious response that there are plenty of alternatives to Microsoft, and the current situation makes them more attractive than ever, according to a report issued this week by Freeform Dynamics."

EDIT: Title should say 18 companies.

 

My take:

This is why Microsoft continues to have a monopoly in the home OS market. Unlike any other product or contract, governments and businesses don't even look at alternatives when making software purchases. The report concerns Switzerland, but this sort of favoured contracting goes on in most countries, unopposed. My own country (UK) has an exclusive contract with MS to provide OSs for all government IT. The 'bidding process' for this only consisted of choosing which vendor supplies the computers with it preloaded.

How can alternatives compete if there is no outlet to do so, and even, like Red Hat, giving it away for FREE isn't good enough to be selected?

 

 

 

because the cost of training the workforce to use, and support red hat linux would cost more then covering windows being inadequate. I wish it were not so, but every day it comes to my attention that people  just dont have the will or smarts maybe to learn something new 

 

put it this way, when asking for approval from the security group to instal a VPN solution on a vista 64-bit OS ... the reply was sure 64 bit is more secure right ..... thankfully it was a moot point after talking with the network team we had no licenses for the needed software to meet our security requirements 

 

or hey how about this..... you mean I cant use acrobat reader to save alter, change PDFs .....   

 

this is why red hat dose not work right now you need to get it into the school systems, but they will claim no one will use it at work its a catch 22 

 



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ssj12 said:
Kasz216 said:
Why would a government want to use something else? That'd be stupid.

Government computers need to "just work"... you aren't going to train government officals to use linux... and you aren't even going to be able to train them how to modify their files so they'll be readable elsewhere.

It only makes sense for governments to use windows.

Furthermore it'd be stupidly expensive to transition over all the stuff to Linux/Mac OS anwyay.


Government computers dont just need to "just work." They need to be secure and efficient enough to handle whatever tasks are at hand from monitoring governmental activities to being able to handle video conferences with other national leaders. Also tell me where you understand the costs of transitioning between OS to OS because the move for any government or company who refused to move to Vista are going to have a hell of a time moving from XP to 7 since it cannot simply upgrade the OS like the installer for Vista does. Expenses for these upgrades will be way cheaper even during the initial transition as no one has to upgrade PC hardware as they might have to moving from one Microsoft OS to another. Linux does not take half the resources needed to run even XP.

Linux does not offer quite the selection of custom tailored applications that goverments have paid for over the years either

 

Im a mac fan so dont take it too hard i have heard all these arguments before... it comes down to cost, and its not beneficial at the moment see my prior post for more...

 

edit there are still free licenses for NeXTSTeP out there, I feel they should run those, its CPU independent (depending on release your working with )

 

 



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