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Forums - General Discussion - The Self-Reliance Alliance (VGChartz Libertarian/Paleoconservative Alliance

Catchy name, eh?

I was suggested a few weeks ago to start this, so I thought it'd be fun to create a VGC-driven group, as I've been parts of others before.
The idea is for everyone to put a tag in their signature that says they belong to the alliance, and seek to instate the core values, not only in discussion, but in everyday life, as this group isn't just about discussion, but action.

'To Each Man, Responsibility'
As you've seen on the VGC forums, there are typically 2 sides to an argument:

The Socialist Critique believes that believes the answer to most of life's problems is stronger government control of an entity. This can manifest itself in stronger censorships, federal services, marketplace regulation, taxation, and other means. The end (equality) justifies the means (reduction of freedoms).
The Libertarian Critique believes that, given history, the answer to life's problems is in the individual's resolve to fix the problem, rather than allow someone else to fix it. It manifests itself in weaker censorships, fewer federal services, a free marketplace, lower/more equal taxation, and so on. Although it's fraught with more problems (as man is intrinsically lazy, and usually stupid), it is more efficient. Our idea of equality is not equal results, regardless of effort, but equal opportunities for those willing to invest themselves into bettering their lives.
This group is 'Side #2' - the side that usually argues that government control is a bad thing, and that people should be responsible for themselves.

Positions

Unlike the typical Conservative/Liberal debate, which both value certain freedoms, and certain censorships (although in different areas), we seek to define individual opportunity as the most desirable cause, over state-run and others-enforced solutions. Throughout history, we have seen empires rise and fall on the degree of freedoms they gave their citizens. With each new empire, new freedoms reigned - from the Code of Hammurabi, to the Magna Carta of 1215, to the Bill of Rights of 1789, man has desired to codify, and procure freedom and rights for his family, and self. Despite this, control is nothing new. Although controlling subjects through legislation and law has changed from authoritarian dictatorships to a more benevolent regime, with honest purposes, it is still is no less restrictive, and causes problems for man - regardless if was the Holy Catholic Church of the dark ages, to Pol Pot's regime in Laos, strict control has always yielded to failure. Nations survive best when they enable their people to better themselves for their own, and family, benefits.

A Few Key Examples (in America, since that's where I'm from):
School Choice. Currently, American youth are forced into government-monopolized schools. Many of our youth face failing schools, incompetent teachers, and no way out of their predicament. No choice is permitted to children, or their families, in many cases. Private schools are expensive, and in many cases, homeschool is severely restricted.
Solution: Allow youth private vouchers to pick the school of their choice, and allow more private-run schools. Schools, like any thing in life, function better when there is incentive to work properly (such as universities). Vouchers could still be paid for in taxes, but would be far more efficient in their function.
 
Pension Plans. In America, the average American that pays into Social Security will earn 1.23% APY on their forced 'investment' per year, if they are a white American with a family. If they are a single black man, they will earn negative APY. This is not equality, nor intelligent. Mandating pensions is a fair position (although an intrusion on freedom, we've learned that it can be beneficial).

Solution: Privatize social security, and allow freedom of choice in each Americans investment. Did you know that, as a government employee of the State of Ohio, I (Mrstickball) earned 10% APY from my plan? Such returns are repeatable if they are given into individual plans, instead of a one-size-fits-all plan. Each citizen should be allowed to invest their retirement where they see fit. If they are unable to choose, then a default plan will always be there for them.
 
Health Care. A difficult discussion. Although we affirm the need that health care should be for everyone, it is an unfortunate aspect of society that not everyone is willing to bear responsibility for a healthy lifestyle. Should a 30 year old, healthy man pay an extra premium for a 40 year old smoker that is 400lbs overweight? Yet under most federal plans, this will be the outcome.

Solution: If a universal health care system is enacted (which many libertarians may even argue over), it should be run similarly to the Car Insurance industry - something that is mandated, but certainly not government run. Mrstickball's personal preference is for every American to have a Medical Savings Account, with a certain percentage of their income deposited when employed, which allows for freedom of the individual to choose their own doctor, and encourage competition in the health care field. Furthermore, we acknowledge that the US health care system is intrinsically broken at this moment, and any attempt to universalize the system will end in an economic catastrophe: You must first make a viable system then seek to institutionalize it, or else we'll end up with a system that not only is expensive, but works very poorly.
 
Vices. Drugs, Alcohol, Tobacco, Prostitution. As a Christian, I am deeply opposed to these things, and hate them with a passion. Yet as a libertarian, one must be free to make ones own choices. The Apostle Paul reminded us 'Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial'. As libertarians, we live by this creed. Although life is fraught with questionable activities, it is always better to err on the side of freedom than on the sdie of censorship.
 
Solution: End the drug war. Immediately. It is a catastrophic failure that has not only caused worse things to happen, but has created a hypocritical nation. How is it that we legalized alcohol - a very dangerous substance - but banned pot? According to free market economist, Milt Friedman, the reason we have so many more dangerous drugs (Crack Cocaine) is due to the failure of the drug war. We must legalize drugs, starting with pot, and allow citizens to make their own choices. As a country, it's up to our moral leaders to fix moral woes, not the government. The government that makes the morals can take the morals, and thus impose their own system, right or wrong, on it's own citizens. Other vices can be seen the same way. We may be able to destroy the concept of drug dealers and human trafficking if we demystify vices. Vices are still, and always will be, wrong, but it is up to responsible people to deal with them.

Taxation. It is a bane of freedom. Tax collectors from any, and every age were the heralds of oppression, and considered a blight on their society. Even today, we spend months of every year providing for the sustenance of leaders and pet projects. This must be severely reduced. Neither party in America has made wise decisions when it comes to taxation and spending. We call on every leader to reduce both government spending (definitely this first), followed by reduction of taxation on all classes of citizens. It is unfair to tax the smart to pay for the stupidity of the poor. Under an equal society, we are allowed to fulfill our hopes and dreams with proper work and drive to great reward, or fall into the mire of sloth which brings poverty. Some decry that 1% of Americans control 90% of the wealth. We affirm that such must be taxed, but we must understand that if they make 60% of the money, they should pay 60% of the taxes. No more, no less. Taxation must be fair, and end all loopholes. It is unjust to allow a rich man to have an easier time of negotiating tax breaks and credits due to more wealth (to hire a better accountant). We must strive for a simplified system to where no one may take advantage of it.

For philantrophic purposes (ie Welfare), we must strive to incentivize giving and a part of self-responsibility, or else fall into the pit of being a careless, unfeeling society. We affirm the plight of the poor, and the desire for all men to have a beneficial, good, happy life, and as much wealth as possible. However, we disagree with the Socialist/State-run critique of how to care for people. It is in the best interest of both the giver and the receiver if it is done without a middleman to dip their corrupt hands in the coffer of caring. My opinion is that it would be beneficial to increase the writeoff abilities of charitable giving, and not decrease it. This way, we offer flexibility to the richer person's ability to give - Either the government can take it, and do what they will, or they can instead give it to the poor person to better their life. Again, this offers flexibility in philanthropy, rather than the mess that government can make of welfare. Even if the government seeks benevolence, we must affirm that it still seeks control in doing so. 'The government that gives you everything you want, can take away everything you need'

Welfare and Giving. Continuing with the last note, we must all become more giving to the needy. Although we deride the idea of government controlling welfare, we must understand that without responsible people, the plight of the poor will only become worse. If anything, the reaction to more government welfare is caused by a lack of care and responsibility among the general populace. It's far easier (but more costly, and less efficient) to have forced giving, and forced receiving. Each person that signs up to the libertarian/paleoconservative alliance understands that giving of yourself is the core directive of proper policy and politics. Even JFK, a Democrat, gave us the great peral of wisdom 'Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country'. We affirm that President Kennedy was correct. If we life a life of service to the government, we will not become servants of the government. Regardless of religious creed, it is imperative for each of us to give of ourselves to a greater cause, and that cause is the plight of selflessness, and not selfishness. If everyone exerted more self-control, reliance, and judgement, we will have a better society.

Military. A good military is key to the defense of any country. However, with the advent of globalization, and the changes in transportation, and technology, military is not what it once was. Forces are more rapid, and alliances are bigger, and more secure. Despite this, some countries (such as America) are living in cold-war ideology of overwhelming force. This has caused for massive, costly (to the taxpayer, and the host country) burdens. We affirm that military must first be for the benefit of the nation's people, and not only the people of another nation. Although many men sacrifice their life in war, we must ask ourselves which wars are truly worth the price of admission. In current society, it would be befitting to the American military to ceede control to host nations such as Japan, South Korea, European Union, and other countries that they have strong military presences in: If the host country is unwilling to sacrifice of itself for it's defence, than neither should we. In doing such, we would be able to remove the incredible taxpayer burden of the military, and place it on the host country which has benefited from a smaller military of its own, allowing for more money to be invested in other places.

This does not argue that all military conflicts are all needless, and useless, but questions the merit of all countries motivations for war, and defense. Military is a needed evil in such an evil world. This is not to argue that a country must be weak, but affirms the fact that there is more to a military than just it's weapons, but also it's negotiating abilities and it's economic prowess: the Allies in WW2 did not win on muscle alone, but their ability to forge alliances, economically exceed their opponents, and of course, sacrifice of themselves for the victory.
Laws and Regulations. Much of the libertarian view is that freedom is key. However, there are times and seasons for laws and regulations, both in private practice, business, and public law. Libertarianism is not anarchy, nor proclaims to be such. We must always have laws and regulations to protect the extremes of the spectrum. Some things are intrinsically bad, and serve no purpose. Also, in a world full of corruption, there must be advocates for justice and right rule. Government comes strongly into play with this aspect. We affirm that the government has the right to rule over it's people (although our core value is that, 9 times out of 10, it's too much). When government intervenes on someone, or somethings behalf, it should be total, complete, and correct. However, such power should used infrequently. This was why government is run by Democracy and Constitutional/Federated Republics in developed nations which have checks and balances. Business and public must be free, but also must play by the book as well. Much of our laws and regulations should be streamlined for easier understanding, and be more efficient for proper use. Much of our economic woes of the past year have not been due to a lack of regulation, but a lack of enforcement. We implore leaders to make sou.nd, responsible judgements. But do such in a way that it's actually enforced. Many problems in life could be resolved with the proper application of law, rather than bureaucracy.

Civil Rights. Civil rights have come to the forefront of public debate since the plight of the black American in the 1960's, and expanded to the homosexual rights movement of the past 2 decades. However, in our best efforts to maintain equality and rights, the pendulum has swung in the opposite direction in some cases due to things such as Affirmative Action. Equality is not in certain rights being expressed for certain people, but the ability to pursue goals unfettered. Should a man be passed over for a promotion due to skin color? Absolutely not. But this goes equally for a white-skinned man as a black-skinned man. Racism is racism. If you pass a white man over for a black man, it is still racism, despite what the PC crowd may say. Equality due to orientation must be respectful of both the individual who seeks rights, and those that such rights may infringe upon. This has more to due with economic issues (such as insurance for homosexual partners) and acceptance than it does with actual rights in many cases. We must affirm that all should be given equal rights, but how we define a right may be in question, at times. Character is a timeless virtue, and passes through all creeds, orientations, genders, and beliefs. Because of this, we must put character and self-sacrifice first, and the 'me-first' rights movements well behind us. This is not to say that there are civil rights battles that don't need to be fought (such as the abortion issue, or other undermined people groups), but we must affirm that less government intervention is the bastion of freedom and liberty.
________________________________________
Just a few of my musings. I am unsure if I'm a prototypical libertarian, as I'm probably more paleoconservative (that is, slightly more government rulings in moral behavior) than some, but I figure I'm kind of close to being on the mark with 95% of the wording.
You don't have to agree with 100% of the positions I posted, but I think that 80% would qualify you for such being in the group. The core quality of the group is freedom. If you like freedom, you should join. If you do not like responsibility, you should not join.

I hope that you enjoyed this posting. Feel free to discuss it, and join in

A Few Selected Quotes from Famous Dead People:

A Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every government, and what no just government should refuse, or rest on inference.
Thomas Jefferson

A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
Thomas Jefferson

Dependence begets subservience and venality, suffocates the germ of virtue, and prepares fit tools for the designs of ambition.
Thomas Jefferson

I am mortified to be told that, in the United States of America, the sale of a book can become a subject of inquiry, and of criminal inquiry too.
Thomas Jefferson

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson

If there is one principle more deeply rooted in the mind of every American, it is that we should have nothing to do with conquest.
Thomas Jefferson

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.
Thomas Jefferson

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
Benjamin Franklin

Laws too gentle are seldom obeyed; too severe, seldom executed.
Benjamin Franklin

Rather go to bed with out dinner than to rise in debt.
Benjamin Franklin

The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself.
Benjamin Franklin

Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty.
Ronald Reagan

Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.
Ronald Reagan

Government always finds a need for whatever money it gets.
Ronald Reagan

Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them.
Ronald Reagan

No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!
Ronald Reagan

It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it.
George Washington

The lesson should be constantly enforced that though the people support the Government, Government should not support the people.
Grover Cleveland

The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
Theodore Roosevelt

Deficits mean future tax increases, pure and simple. Deficit spending should be viewed as a tax on future generations, and politicians who create deficits should be exposed as tax hikers.
Ron Paul

The most important element of a free society, where individual rights are held in the highest esteem, is the rejection of the initiation of violence.
Ron Paul

You wanna get rid of drug crime in this country? Fine, let's just get rid of all the drug laws.
Ron Paul
Enjoy!



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

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Well, I'm a small government kind of guy, but I hate adding these types of things to my sig. So... yea, I haven't even finished reading this yet




If you drop a PS3 right on top of a Wii, it would definitely defeat it. Not so sure about the Xbox360. - mancandy
In the past we played games. In the future we watch games. - Forest-Spirit
11/03/09 Desposit: Mod Bribery (RolStoppable)  vg$ 500.00
06/03/09 Purchase: Moderator Privilege  vg$ -50,000.00

Nordlead Jr. Photo/Video Gallery!!! (Video Added 4/19/10)

I'll give you a free bump MrStickball because I can see you have put a lot of effort into this thread. I'll say something constructive to justify the bump lol.

I am both ways, I have socialist (/liberal) beliefs in some things such as education, healthcare, security, fire dept and defense etc... But I have paleo-conservative views about the marketplace and what you just said about vices, legalise drugs so they can be monitored and hope that people are sensible-ish.



Very nice. I agree with almost all of it :)



It took the British conservatives, what, over a decade to realize that they had to moderate in order to compete in an evolving society. The same for the Thatcher-era left.

American conservatives don't seem intent on beating that record.



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For there to be a viable conservative party, they have to quit taking a hard-line on some (but not all) of the following issues:

Energy (there current policy doesn't even really make that much sense as it goes against there strong national defense attitude)
Environment (why is the environment a partisan issue?)
Abortion
Gay marriage
Health Care (completely dropped the ball on this one - McCain didn't even try to fight Obama on this issue)
Approach to war on terror (I'm sorry, but even if Dick Cheney is right, he still hurts Republicans. Guy has a 19% approval rating)
Religion in politics (don't really see this going away, but worth listing)
Taxes (don't see this changing either, but worth listing)
Military spending (current stance goes against fiscally conservative principles)
Relationships with minorities (minorities currently trust the Republican Party about as much as they trust the police)
Purity in the party (another big one - big parties and "pure" parties usually don't mix. The Green Party may be very pure, but when is the last time it won any national elections?)

Really, some of the Republican Party's stances on those issues don't even qualify as "conservative," so I don't think changing some of them will do any injury to Republican principles. But I don't think anyone would say that the strategy the party has had in the past years is politically viable.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

Posting for a bookmark... Hopefully 2.0 will have favorite threads... Going to read this later, and post more later.



Why is their approach on gay marriage a problem Akuma? I mean... most people agree with that stance as of yet.

The fact that Kerry wasn't more against gay marriage really hurt him a lot.



Kasz216 said:
Why is their approach on gay marriage a problem Akuma? I mean... most people agree with that stance as of yet.

The fact that Kerry wasn't more against gay marriage really hurt him a lot.

 

Because marriage equality is rapidly approaching majority support - the younger you are, the more likely you are to support it. Like most left-of-center positions.



highwaystar101 said:

I'll give you a free bump MrStickball because I can see you have put a lot of effort into this thread. I'll say something constructive to justify the bump lol.

I am both ways, I have socialist (/liberal) beliefs in some things such as education, healthcare, security, fire dept and defense etc... But I have paleo-conservative views about the marketplace and what you just said about vices, legalise drugs so they can be monitored and hope that people are sensible-ish.

I don't know the specifics of what you're saying, but it sounds like I at least generally agree with you.

 

@mrstickball: I certainly found it to be a good read even on the parts that I may not completely agree with you. I wouln't say I qualify to be a member, but I wish you luck on the endeavor and I intend to look more into the paleo-conservative standpoint.