Mendicate Bias said:
I'm pretty much done with the argument at this point because I can see that Uber is not going to listen to anyone elses arguments but to say one final thing. You say immersion is not subjective but is directly proportional to the amount of realism in the game? Well the dictionary disagrees with you.
Immersion-
state of being deeply engaged or involved; absorption.
If you still do not understand why your argument is flawed then nothing anyone says to you will change your mind because you clearly have your eyes and ears closed.
Also you are absolutely crazy if you think COD4 launched with more hype than Killzone 2. K2 had a massive worldwide add campaign behind it.
Your final flawed point is that gamers do not like Killzone 2 because it is different. When Halo:CE came out it completely changed the formula of fps shooters by adding rechargeable sheilds, revolutionary controls and a multitude of other factors yet the game did phenomonaly on a massively limited user base. If you think Killzone 2 changed the fps genre more than Halo then you are ignoring history.
I think your problem is that you are an elitist that thinks that everyone else is stupid and since Halo is popular then it must be a stupid game. The fact that Halo 3 is consistently the most played game on xbox live if not the world shows that Halo 3 has brought something to the table that no other fps has, bringing people back to play each and every week. Toyota is the most successful car company in America, is it because everyone is stupid and buys the same brand or is it because Toyota makes the most reliable, efficient cars on the market?
oh and I don't know about you but I can sure as hell jump and shoot a gun at the same time.
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oh yes, i'm the closed-minded one. you who have given nothing but questionable assertions and no willingness to understand any of the many points brought about killzone is mr. enlightenment.
do you even check facts before you post? you have no idea how hard you make it to take you seriously. i'm not even sure what your thesis is, other than that you really really like halo and think killzone is bad.
let's see if i can shed some light on you. killzone sales: i thought i covered this thoroughly, but your response shows it still didn't sink in. you know how many killzone commercials i saw before the game dropped? one. just one. it was a prerendered scene with no gameplay footage. and speaking of this "worldwide" campaign you spoke of, do you know what it was? it was a few banners on gamer sites, the bullet commercial, and posters with a helghan mask on it. the commercial did not impress at all like the cod ad did (not to mention it ran way more seldom than the cod one), and the poster had to be taken down in some parts of canada due to it scaring children. so who is buying killzone? people who followed the development or frequent gamer sites. average gamers and kids would of course bought cod4 more readily. and as far as my point about the game polarizing the shooter community, you assert that it was not because killzone was too different, but that it just must be because the game sucks. this lack of ability to resolve distinction is the kind of thing i've been dealing with from you since this discussion started. i actually researched this point, and people are quite willing to share their thoughts on the game. sure enough, the overwhelming reason people gave when they didn't like it were the controls...which is the biggest difference the game represents. they didn't like the fact that it doesn't have the snappiness that twitch shooters have. i knew this, so i said this, and you just dismissed it like usual.
you listed a couple of things that halo 3 did to revolutionize fps, but the only one that actually was new was the forge feature. if you read what people who like and didn't like it have to say they don't agree with you. people who don't like it cite boredom and unoriginality as the reason. they felt like it basically was a polished halo2. people that do like it talk about how they love the online aspect. once again the facts are consistent with what i've said all along, and you for some reason have resisted.
you provide a definition of immersion that is somehow supposed to prove that it is entirely subjective. i'm not impressed. i know what the word means. what you can't seem to grasp is that immersion is precipitated by actual, objective things a game can do. i don't know of a game being totally immersive to one player and not at all to another. everyone that i've played with has agreed to the basic premise that killzone manages to up the intensity way more than other shooters. it's basically analogous to the distinction between simulation and arcade play. killzone takes great pains to make the game feel more like a simulation. i've given reasons why. you have provided no valid counter beyond weak semantic arguments and red herring arguments.
i've given frank assessments of both games that cover their strengths and weaknesses. you have done nothing but show that you have a grossly distorted view of both games.
i will say that the argument has not been a total loss, as many of the contributing posters seem to have weighed in as agreeing with the basic conclusion that one game is a great twitch shooter and the other is a great immersive shooter.
