Forums - General Discussion - Does National Health Care Really Work?

largedarryl said:
HappySqurriel said:
O-D-C said:
Canada proves it works

 

There is a massive trade off represented by the Canadian healthcare system ...

While more people are covered in the Canadian system a lot of people have no ability to get a GP; there are long waiting lists for Specialists, diagnostic tests, surgeries, and emergency care; and costs are still escalating at an unsustainable pace, and at the current rate it is unlikely that we will be able to afford healthcare within 10 (or so) years.

Many parts of the excalating cost and bleak outlook are all a result of the US and the effect they have on Canada's available doctors and nurses.

 

 

If you seriously believe this do you have any evidence to back up your claim? The standard of living of doctors has not been rising at a rate noticeably faster than the typical Canadian from what I have seen, which would indicate to me that there brain drain was playing a fairly minor role in the increase in the cost of healthcare ...

In contrast, where doctors used to use an X-Ray for in the 1960s (at a cost of roughly $250 when adjusted for inflation) they are now using multiple X-Rays and a MRI to diagnose (at a cost of over $2,500) ... The same can be said about othi diagnostic tools (like blood tests); antibotics, pain killers, and other drugs; and even things like patients expecting their own room full of the luxury electronics they have at home has a greater impact on the cost of healthcare.

 



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HappySqurriel said:
largedarryl said:
HappySqurriel said:
O-D-C said:
Canada proves it works

 

There is a massive trade off represented by the Canadian healthcare system ...

While more people are covered in the Canadian system a lot of people have no ability to get a GP; there are long waiting lists for Specialists, diagnostic tests, surgeries, and emergency care; and costs are still escalating at an unsustainable pace, and at the current rate it is unlikely that we will be able to afford healthcare within 10 (or so) years.

Many parts of the excalating cost and bleak outlook are all a result of the US and the effect they have on Canada's available doctors and nurses.

 

 

If you seriously believe this do you have any evidence to back up your claim? The standard of living of doctors has not been rising at a rate noticeably faster than the typical Canadian from what I have seen, which would indicate to me that there brain drain was playing a fairly minor role in the increase in the cost of healthcare ...

In contrast, where doctors used to use an X-Ray for in the 1960s (at a cost of roughly $250 when adjusted for inflation) they are now using multiple X-Rays and a MRI to diagnose (at a cost of over $2,500) ... The same can be said about othi diagnostic tools (like blood tests); antibotics, pain killers, and other drugs; and even things like patients expecting their own room full of the luxury electronics they have at home has a greater impact on the cost of healthcare.

 

I'm mainly focusing my concern with the problems in the Canadian health system based on the lack of doctors and nurses.  I do attribute this to the US brain drain, but I do not have a source where I can back this up (although I'm sure stats Canada has been listing the number of graduated doctors vs employed doctors at a significant deficit).

Now I maybe misspoke by putting the "cost" word in my original post.

 



It all boils down to:

Do you let the govenment do it with inefficiencies or do you let the insurance companies and hospitals do it with profits?

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taxman said:
It all boils down to:

Do you let the govenment do it with inefficiencies or do you let the insurance companies and hospitals do it with profits?

 

Sorry, but it really comes down to:

Do you sacrifice the liberties of the few, to provide a service for the many?

The US when it was founded, was founded for the purpose of putting a government in place that kept this kind of thing from happening. It’s what “free” means.

It’s been a long time since people in the US have been free. I would like to see laws that moving us back in that direction. Sadly, all of the ones recently move us away from freedom.



300 million people, 9,161,923 SQ KM

Never will work for all.

Repent or be destroyed

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Part of the reason Britain, Australia and other countries with functional national healthcare systems do work well, (with lower budgets than the US industry) is through their use of G.P's (general practitioners).

It massively increases the efficiency of the NHS in the UK by preventing the wasting of resources in initial diagnosis by ensuring that patients do not get shunted from department to department carrying out wasteful tests.

Whilst the U.S does have "family doctors" and other (if this makes any sense) less specialised specialties, they provide nowhere near as key a role in initial diagnosis (in the UK, all patients outside of A&E must be referred to a hospital specialist by their G.P)

I feel to improve the efficiency of the US system, Obama would do well by implementing a similar system in initial diagnosis in the US

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O-D-C said:
Canada proves it works

 

There is a private health care system in Canada. It’s called America.

They’ve got a big, new hospital on the american border side pointing north toward Montreal, with a sign on it saying Canadian checks accepted.



Repent or be destroyed

I don't know...I've never been sick.
I'm still young and fresh.

CommunistHater said:
O-D-C said:
Canada proves it works

 

There is a private health care system in Canada. It’s called America.

They’ve got a big, new hospital on the american border side pointing north toward Montreal, with a sign on it saying Canadian checks accepted.

 

 National Healthcare comes up and every socialist in the woodwork pops up trying to drag US healthcare down to their level.



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire

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HappySqurriel said:

 If you seriously believe this do you have any evidence to back up your claim? The standard of living of doctors has not been rising at a rate noticeably faster than the typical Canadian from what I have seen, which would indicate to me that there brain drain was playing a fairly minor role in the increase in the cost of healthcare ...

In contrast, where doctors used to use an X-Ray for in the 1960s (at a cost of roughly $250 when adjusted for inflation) they are now using multiple X-Rays and a MRI to diagnose (at a cost of over $2,500) ... The same can be said about othi diagnostic tools (like blood tests); antibotics, pain killers, and other drugs; and even things like patients expecting their own room full of the luxury electronics they have at home has a greater impact on the cost of healthcare.

 

You are right on this. The reason why they have to schedule all those test is the protect themselves from being sued. If some one is in a doctors care and there are 6 possible test that the doctor could schedule, if he schedules 5 and the patient dies or has a reversible condition, that doctor can be sued for malpractice. So they have to schedule all these expensive test to protect themselves.