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Forums - General Discussion - I love this guy. Why can’t he be an American and run for office here!

akuma587 on 01 April 2009

Republicans main problem was they were taking a hard line on too many issues and alienating the average voter in the process. The average voter only feels strongly about a few issues. The Republican Party in not so many words was telling people to agree with them on every issue or that they were wrong and not welcome in the Republican Party.

I'll break down the issues they were alienating people on with the individual social groups.

The average voter -

Healthcare reform - the average voter is very responsive to reforming our healthcare system. McCain actually had a decent plan, but he essentially handed the healthcare issue to Obama on a silver platter. Republicans just conceded from the start on this issue. They didn't try to even offer much of a solution.

Environment - the average voter is concerned about environmental issues to at least some degree. This was another issue that Republicans handed to Democrats on a silver platter. Same as above. Did not even try to offer a solution.

Women -

Abortion - women are more likely on average to be pro-choice. Democrats are at least willing to compromise on abortion to some degree. The Republican Party platform was you are either with us or against us.

Hispanics -

Immigration - Hispanics went 2-1 for Obama (66-33% or so). Republicans are sacrificing the fasting growing demographic in the country with their stance on immigration.

Blacks -

Went 95-5% for Obama. Need I say more? The most the Republican Party has done to try and incorporate blacks into their party is to put a black person in every photo op they have and install Michael Steele as a figurehead of the RNC.

Post-Graduate/Professional Degree Holders -

Science/Environment/Religion/Morality - This is also one of the fastest growing demographics in the country. We are an increasingly educated society, at least in terms of the degrees we carry. And the Republican Party's anti-science and staunchly pro-religion standpoint turned off a lot of people. The same thing with their stance on sex education and all other kinds of "moral" issues

Young People (younger than 30) -

Just about every issue - Republican performance with the young was pathetic to say the least. Republicans are risking losing an entire generation to the Democrats. People tend to solidify their party identification relatively early in life.

The only demographic that Republicans did particularly well with was white males. Coincidentally, white males are one of the fastest SHRINKING demographics in the country.

I still think the Republicans have a very bleak future ahead unless they update their party platform significantly. They are stuck in the 20th century while the Democrats are moving aggressively forward on a lot of issues.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

Around the Network
Tyrannical on 01 April 2009

I think Fox news put it best.
When Socialist Europe is warning Obama about spending too much........



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire

TheRealMafoo on 02 April 2009

You put to much faith in the voter Akuma. Obama won because he is good looking and a slick talker.

There is not one thing about him as a leader that's better then Hillary. Not one. So why did he win the primary?

Personality.

We have a celebrity president, simple.



mrstickball on 02 April 2009

It's amazing that the republicans 'alienated voters so much' yet Obama won by only 5%.

Also, Akuma, you are wrong when you mentioned post-grad/degree holder. In case you didn't know, the average republican is more education than the average democrat. So it's not like the Republicans aren't winning the smarter voters over.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

akuma587 on 02 April 2009
mrstickball said:
It's amazing that the republicans 'alienated voters so much' yet Obama won by only 5%.

Also, Akuma, you are wrong when you mentioned post-grad/degree holder. In case you didn't know, the average republican is more education than the average democrat. So it's not like the Republicans aren't winning the smarter voters over.

By 5% I guess you mean 7%.  And if you look at the electoral college Obama beat McCain by close to 2:1 (365-175)

Oh really?  Republicans won those demographics?  I'd like to see your numbers on that.  College graduates AND post-graduates AND high school graduates went to Obama last time I checked (check bottom of the list):

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#USP00p1

First column is Obama.  2nd column is McCain.  Third column is other.

President
National Exit Poll
17,836 Respondents
1 of 7
Vote by Sex
Total
 Obama
 McCain
 Other/No Answer
 
 
Male (47%)
49%
48%
3%
 
 
Female (53%)
56%
43%
1%
 
 
Vote by Sex and Race
Total
 Obama
 McCain
 Other/No Answer
 
 
White Men (36%)
41%
57%
2%
 
 
White Women (39%)
46%
53%
1%
 
 
Black Men (5%)
95%
5%
N/A
 
 
Black Women (7%)
96%
3%
1%
 
 
Latino Men (4%)
64%
33%
3%
 
 
Latino Women (5%)
68%
30%
2%
 
 
All Other Races (5%)
64%
32%
4%
 
 
Vote by Race
Total
 Obama
 McCain
 Other/No Answer
 
 
White (74%)
43%
55%
2%
 
 
African-American (13%)
95%
4%
1%
 
 
Latino (9%)
67%
31%
2%
 
 
Asian (2%)
62%
35%
3%
 
 
Other (3%)
66%
31%
3%
 
 
Vote by Age
Total
 Obama
 McCain
 Other/No Answer
 
 
18-29 (18%)
66%
32%
2%
 
 
30-44 (29%)
52%
46%
2%
 
 
45-64 (37%)
50%
49%
1%
 
 
65 and Older (16%)
45%
53%
2%
 
 
Vote by Age
Total
 Obama
 McCain
 Other/No Answer
 
 
18-24 (10%)
66%
32%
2%
 
 
25-29 (8%)
66%
31%
3%
 
 
30-39 (18%)
54%
44%
2%
 
 
40-49 (21%)
49%
49%
2%
 
 
50-64 (27%)
50%
49%
1%
 
 
65 or Over (16%)
45%
53%
2%
 
 
Vote by Age and Race
Total
 Obama
 McCain
 Other/No Answer
 
 
White 18-29 (11%)
54%
44%
2%
 
 
White 30-44 (20%)
41%
57%
2%
 
 
White 45-64 (30%)
42%
56%
2%
 
 
White 65 and Older (13%)
40%
58%
2%
 
 
Black 18-29 (3%)
95%
4%
1%
 
 
Black 30-44 (4%)
96%
4%
N/A
 
 
Black 45-64 (4%)
96%
3%
1%
 
 
Black 65 and Older (1%)
94%
6%
N/A
 
 
Latino 18-29 (3%)
76%
19%
5%
 
 
Latino 30-44 (3%)
63%
36%
1%
 
 
Latino 45-64 (2%)
58%
40%
2%
 
 
Latino 65 and Older (1%)
68%
30%
2%
 
 
All Others (5%)
64%
33%
3%
 
 
Vote by Income
Total
 Obama
 McCain
 Other/No Answer
 
 
Under $15,000 (6%)
73%
25%
2%
 
 
$15-30,000 (12%)
60%
37%
3%
 
 
$30-50,000 (19%)
55%
43%
2%
 
 
$50-75,000 (21%)
48%
49%
3%
 
 
$75-100,000 (15%)
51%
48%
1%
 
 
$100-150,000 (14%)
48%
51%
1%
 
 
$150-200,000 (6%)
48%
50%
2%
 
 
$200,000 or More (6%)
52%
46%
2%
 
 
Vote by Income
Total
 Obama
 McCain
 Other/No Answer
 
 
Less Than $50K (38%)
60%
38%
2%
 
 
$50K or More (62%)
49%
49%
2%
 
 
Vote by Income
Total
 Obama
 McCain
 Other/No Answer
 
 
Less Than $100K (74%)
55%
43%
2%
 
 
$100K or More (26%)
49%
49%
2%
 
 
Vote by Income
Total
 Obama
 McCain
 Other/No Answer
 
 
Less Than $50,000 (38%)
60%
38%
2%
 
 
$50-100,000 (36%)
49%
49%
2%
 
 
$100,000 or More (26%)
49%
49%
2%
 
 
Vote by Income and Race
Total
 Obama
 McCain
 Other/No Answer
 
 
Whites Under $50,000 (25%)
47%
51%
2%
 
 
Whites Over $50,000 (49%)
43%
56%
1%
 
 
Non-Whites Under $50,000 (13%)
86%
13%
1%
 
 
Non-Whites Over $50,000 (13%)
75%
22%
3%
 
 
Vote by Education
Total
 Obama
 McCain
 Other/No Answer
 
 
No High School (4%)
63%
35%
2%
 
 
H.S. Graduate (20%)
52%
46%
2%
 
 
Some College (31%)
51%
47%
2%
 
 
College Graduate (28%)
50%
48%
2%
 
 
Postgraduate (17%)
58%
40%
2%
 
 
Did You Attend College?
Total
 Obama
 McCain
 Other/No Answer
 
 
Yes (76%)
52%
46%
2%
 
 
No (24%)
54%
44%
2%
 
 
Are You a College Graduate?
Total
 Obama
 McCain
 Other/No Answer
 
 
Yes (44%)
53%
45%
2%
 
 
No (56%)
53%
46%
1%

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

Around the Network
mrstickball on 02 April 2009

Look at the list of education stats, Akuma....Look at the disparity between Obama and McCain supports that didn't graduate high school. There's a 28% gap...You don't think that throws the education level off, in favor of McCain?

As for historical data:
http://dabacon.org/pontiff/?p=539
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pew_Research_Center_political_typology

Democrats are far more likely to not complete HS than Republicans.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

Tyrannical on 02 April 2009

Hmmm, based on the demographic data, repeal the 15th and 19th amendment and republicans will win every time.



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire

akuma587 on 02 April 2009
mrstickball said:
Look at the list of education stats, Akuma....Look at the disparity between Obama and McCain supports that didn't graduate high school. There's a 28% gap...You don't think that throws the education level off, in favor of McCain?

As for historical data:
http://dabacon.org/pontiff/?p=539
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pew_Research_Center_political_typology

Democrats are far more likely to not complete HS than Republicans.

Your data proves my point while also proving your point.

Data you cited (first link):

Bachelor's Degree - From the first three categories - Democrat (Strong Democrat, Not Str Dem, Ind. Near Dem.)

42.9%

Bachelor's Degree - From the last three categories - Republican (Strong Republican, Not Str. Rep., Ind. Near Rep.)

46%

A whopping three percentage points.  If you are trying to hang your hat on that as statistically significant, then you should go take a statistics class.

Data you cited (first link):

Graduate Degree - From the first three categories - Democrat (Strong Democrat, Not Str Dem, Ind. Near Dem.)

50%

Graduate Degree - From the last three categories - Republican (Strong Republican, Not Str. Rep., Ind. Near Rep.)

37%

That is a much broader gap that cannot be attributed to statistical irregularities.  Thirteen percentage points.

You are missing one big factor.  There are more registered Democrats than Republicans.  So all your data proves is that Democrats have more uneducated voters AND more educated voters than Republicans.  Your data shows that Republicans are losing BOTH of these demographics.

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

mrstickball on 02 April 2009
akuma587 said:

Your data proves my point while also proving your point.

Data you cited (first link):

Bachelor's Degree - From the first three categories - Democrat (Strong Democrat, Not Str Dem, Ind. Near Dem.)

42.9%

Bachelor's Degree - From the last three categories - Republican (Strong Republican, Not Str. Rep., Ind. Near Rep.)

46%

A whopping three percentage points.  If you are trying to hang your hat on that as statistically significant, then you should go take a statistics class.

Data you cited (first link):

Graduate Degree - From the first three categories - Democrat (Strong Democrat, Not Str Dem, Ind. Near Dem.)

50%

Graduate Degree - From the last three categories - Republican (Strong Republican, Not Str. Rep., Ind. Near Rep.)

37%

That is a much broader gap that cannot be attributed to statistical irregularities.  Thirteen percentage points.

You are missing one big factor.  There are more registered Democrats than Republicans.  So all your data proves is that Democrats have more uneducated voters AND more educated voters than Republicans.  Your data shows that Republicans are losing BOTH of these demographics.

 

You forgot to read the first few lines of data before spouting off about graduates and bachelors degrees being higher for Democrats. There were more Dems interviewed, therefore their numbers will be higher, regardless. You should have checked what % of total Democrats and Republicans held a degree, or lack of it.

If you actually analyzed the data, you'd get the following:

  • Of the 20,563 Democrats (Strong, Not Str, and near Ind.),  16.3% had a bachelors or graduates degree.
  • Of the 14,031 Republicans (Strong, Not Str, and near Ind.), 22.3% had a bachelors or grduates degree.

That's a 6.0% gap in favor of the Republicans for both categories.

As for those that did not graduate:

  • 29.1% of Democrat-leaning respondents did not graduate high school (5,993 of 20,563)
  • 18.7% of Republican-leaning respondents did not graduate high school (2,636 of 14,031)

Do you see where you went wrong? You can't just add up % because they are inequal....They didn't actually seek to analyze the Democratic and Republican userbases. I would suggest you brush up on statistics before using the bunk percentages you cited.

Furthermore, the data doesn't show that Republicans are losing either cateogory. It just means that there were more respondants that stated they leaned Democrat. Given the fact there were approximately 35% more Democrats surveyed doesn't mean much, given the fact that there was a significantly higher level of education among Republicans than Democrats - enough of a gap to absolve the numerical superiority of Democrat respondants.

You could also look at site #2 - the Pew Research survey that gives similar results as my analysis above.

 



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

Jackson50 on 02 April 2009
mrstickball said:
It's amazing that the republicans 'alienated voters so much' yet Obama won by only 5%.

Also, Akuma, you are wrong when you mentioned post-grad/degree holder. In case you didn't know, the average republican is more education than the average democrat. So it's not like the Republicans aren't winning the smarter voters over.

I have found the simplest way to help people visualize the respective educational demographics of each party is the following: Republicans are similar to a bell curve, and Democrats are similar to a reverse bell curve. Republicans are strongest with the some college/college graduate demographics, and Democrats are strongest with the <HS graduate/post-graduate demographics.