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Forums - General Discussion - If you don't believe in the death penalty, this should change your mind.

Because there are appeals processes and other legal wranglings involved



 

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Oh yeah, this...

We should get rid of them




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SciFiBoy said:
Tyrannical said:
SciFiBoy said:
hasn't changed my mind at all, he should get life in prison

 

 How about a compromise? They get life imprisonment, but we are allowed to take means to shorten their life.

no

 

 

 How about a high fat, high sodium diet?



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire

SciFiBoy said:
izaaz101 said:
The OP did not change my mind, but then again I've always been for the death penalty.

I find it interesting that on the issues of the death penalty, and abortion there are some people who are for abortion and against the death penalty, and those who are against abortion but supports the death penalty (I am the latter). Just an interesting observation.

 

not really, i think murder is bad, but i dont consider abortion to be murder, so theres no problem there for me.

I didn't say there was a problem, or that we were hypocrites or anything. Just that it was interesting to see that sort of relationship between some people's beliefs.



MontanaHatchet said:

Being easier on criminals is part of moving forwards as a society. Life in prison may not be the most convenient punishment for the justice system, or a just enough punishment for the family of the person murdered, but it's not a radical choice. I think a lot of conservatives would agree with me when I say that I wouldn't want to surrender my life to the government/justice system regardless of the actions I committed. A life in jail may not be cruel enough in some people's eyes, but the legal system also shouldn't have the right to end my life.

I would argue that for serious crimes, such as taking someone elses life, that shouldn't matter. They shouldn't have the right to take someone elses life, but they did anyway. If you're going to kill people, in my view, you forfit your right to life because you're an ass. Yes, I hate people killing others for no reason, or a very stupid reason. (My views on what's a stupid reason are my own; don't try to twist my words to mean something else.)

MontanaHatchet said:

One of the main problems with the death penalty is that it's really backwards. Hangings and torture used to be commonplace, but now torture is looked upon as an incredibly cruel action and hanging is unheard of. The death sentence isn't torture; the people die pretty fast, and they aren't hanged. As a society, we should be moving towards arrest and restraint rather than murder. Isn't that just based on your perspective? Maybe if there was a more serious punishment, people would be less willing to break the law. Just maybe.  Hell, watch the movie Batman Begins if you want to learn a little more.

Life is precious, or at least I think so in my oh-so crazy mind. If you're going to end someone elses life, is your life precious? Clearly that person has no regard (for the most part) for life. The death sentence for people like that is a punishment that fits the crime. After all, once you lose it, you aren't getting another one. Do they think of that before they kill other people? Who knows. But they still did it. And you don't realize how precious life is until you're dead (although you don't "realize" anything at all). Maybe the only way they'll realize that is by dying. So, if you want to look at it that way, we'd almost be doing them a favor. Almost. Take a lesson from the third crusades, when the crusaders didn't have the resources to house their captives and chose to slaughter them instead. Back then, they really had no other option. But in today's society, we have the resources to house people for life, and we shouldn't end a person's life just because it's more convenient to the government and taxpayers. Neither should they take someone's life for no reason at all, or a very stupid one. That doesn't stop them though.

Another issue I have is the conditions in jails. I remember my dad telling me about a jail in Wyoming a while back, where there was no heat in a stone room. In the winter, you'd be miserable. That would make you think twice about committing a crime. They also had to grow their own food, and work. Conditions were not fun. We should not have prisons with great conditions. We shouldn't be keeping these people near death, but they should know that prison is a punishment.

Basically, prison should not have any comforts more than is necessary (ie, not letting the temperature getting too out of hand, give them decent beds at least... not like a rock anyway, etc).



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No, I'm still for life in prison.



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    Although I'm very much against the death penalty and I am very much proud to live in a country where it's abolished, I'm really bothered by the attention it's given in light of its lack of an affect on deterrence of crime:

(http://www.amnesty.ca/deathpenalty/canada.php)

"Contrary to predictions by death penalty supporters, the homicide rate in Canada did not increase after abolition in 1976. In fact, the Canadian murder rate declined slightly the following year (from 2.8 per 100,000 to 2.7). Over the next 20 years the homicide rate fluctuated (between 2.2 and 2.8 per 100,000), but the general trend was clearly downwards. It reached a 30-year low in 1995 (1.98) -- the fourth consecutive year-to-year decrease and a full one-third lower than in the year before abolition. In 1998, the homicide rate dipped below 1.9 per 100,000, the lowest rate since the 1960s."

   My main concern is one that is often not given much serious regard and is often overlooked in these discussions on crime, as it doesn't act as an immediate deterrant to current criminals - prevention. As unqualified as I am to say, this particular heinous act seems to be unpreventable. There are undoubtedly sick people in this world who are likely to commit abominable crimes regardless of the punishment, whether it'd be death or life imprisonment. But it's also likely that there are even more who commit these crimes and are very much preventable - no source, but I would think it obvious.

   I think that alone is reason enough to end the death penalty (in whichever countries it is still used), simply to move those resources to prevention. It's been evidenced to work in Canada (though we still have a long way to go as gang violence is becoming a major issue).

   As opposed to what username2324 suggested, there are several reasons to oppose the death penalty outside of simply clinging to 'life is precious', most of which I agree with but have already been explained by others on here. I won't bother to dwell on any further.



MontanaHatchet said:
Oh my god, I never realized how awful human actions can be. This story has really shown me the light, and I now support the death penalty.

Nah, just kidding, I'm not a tool. Hey, maybe I should post the life story of Hitler for people who are against abortion.

It might just make them Pro Castration like FDR.



Kasz216 said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Oh my god, I never realized how awful human actions can be. This story has really shown me the light, and I now support the death penalty.

Nah, just kidding, I'm not a tool. Hey, maybe I should post the life story of Hitler for people who are against abortion.

It might just make them Pro Castration like FDR.

 

 i'm pro castration, lets start with limbaugh



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

Avinash_Tyagi said:
Kasz216 said:
MontanaHatchet said:
Oh my god, I never realized how awful human actions can be. This story has really shown me the light, and I now support the death penalty.

Nah, just kidding, I'm not a tool. Hey, maybe I should post the life story of Hitler for people who are against abortion.

It might just make them Pro Castration like FDR.

 

 i'm pro castration, lets start with limbaugh

Limbaugh... sounds german enough to pass the FDR test.