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Forums - Sales Discussion - MS is playing dirty, I commend them (360 sku rumors).

Alby_da_Wolf on 12 March 2009
Bitmap Frogs said:
Impulsivity said:

In case EVERYTHING about the Xbox model is about the same as last time. The console still costs more to make then it sells for, the games are mainly 3rd party with no MS publishing, live is the same price with a similar number of subs and the 360 sales are even similar to the sales of the original xbox year over year other then a slight uptick in Japan sales.

The only thing that has changed is they now roll the xbox in with all kinds of other things that do, on average, make money to make the xbox look like less of an albatros to investors. Especially with warranty costs, which are a new problem for the 360 (they never had to shell out over a billion to fix faulty xboxs in the first gen) they are almost certainly still, yes, losing money on the xbox.

 

Oh boy. This is like shooting fish in a barrel =/

No, Impulsivity. Things have changed, a lot. For starters, Microsoft owns the chips inside the 360. The CPU and GPU of the first Xbox were owned by the corporations that designed them. As a result, Microsoft wasn't able to shop around for the cheapest foundry. On top of that, they had to pay royalties for the chips on every Xbox sold. 

What's changed is that Microsoft owns everything inside the 360. They shop for the cheapest foundries, they accelerate die shrinks and they do not pay royalties.

But I guess when you have an axe to grind, anything goes. Well, Microsoft is lucky keyboard and mice have sold so, so much. You know, I do wonder how much mice and keyboard you need to sell to change your results from -1 billion per quarter to +half a billion per quarter.

In the meanwhile, the ps3 is doing so, so damn good it's eating all the profits from ps2 hardware and software, all the profits from psp hardware and software and all the profits generated by psn. Heck, the ps3 losses are so big on top of eating all that profit it's making Sony's gaming division post huge losses. 

Frankly, you can hide behind the E&D division excuse for as long as you want. If that's the way you want to live, so be it. But out of both corporations, there's just one making money outta videogames.

It looks like you really don't know what else E&D division sells besides XBox 360, Zune, keyboards and mice.

Here, directly from http://www.microsoft.com/msft/ic/segments_edd.aspx

Overview

Entertainment and Devices Division (“EDD”) offerings include the Xbox 360 platform (which includes the Microsoft Xbox 360 video game console system, Xbox 360 video games, Xbox Live, and Xbox 360 accessories), the Zune digital music and entertainment platform, PC software games, online games and services, Mediaroom (our Internet protocol television software), the Surface computing platform, mobile and embedded device platforms, and other devices. EDD leads the development efforts for our line of consumer software and hardware products including application software for Apple’s Macintosh computers and Microsoft PC hardware products, and is responsible for all retail sales and marketing for Microsoft Office and the Windows operating systems.

I bolded the most relevant sources of MS EDD income you seemingly ignore, hardly just a bunch of keyboards and mice...

 



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thx1139 on 12 March 2009

Do you know "retail sales and marketing" for Microsoft Office and Windows Operation Systems doesnt necessarily mean the revenue from a retailer selling Office and Windows. It means that the costs of sales (Sales people, etc.) and marketing (promotions and advertising) are included in the EDD division.

Windows Mobile used to be separate division and only once showed a profit. With the iPhone and Google Android Windows Mobile growth has stopped and more likely started to drop. MS is responding with added investments in that area and that means added costs.

Finally you will not see an Arcade with a 20GB HDD. If MS was going to reshuffle and do something like include a HDD drive in the least expensive 360 they would simply drop the Arcade and cut prices on the Pro. An Arcade with a 20GB HDD drive would cost nearly the same as a 60GB Pro at $279.99 to produce.



Its libraries that sell systems not a single game.

colonelstubbs on 12 March 2009

MS are indeed loving it...sony have to fight back, like....now



I hope my 360 doesn't RRoD
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Alby_da_Wolf on 12 March 2009
thx1139 said:
Do you know "retail sales and marketing" for Microsoft Office and Windows Operation Systems doesnt necessarily mean the revenue from a retailer selling Office and Windows. It means that the costs of sales (Sales people, etc.) and marketing (promotions and advertising) are included in the EDD division.

Windows Mobile used to be separate division and only once showed a profit. With the iPhone and Google Android Windows Mobile growth has stopped and more likely started to drop. MS is responding with added investments in that area and that means added costs.

Finally you will not see an Arcade with a 20GB HDD. If MS was going to reshuffle and do something like include a HDD drive in the least expensive 360 they would simply drop the Arcade and cut prices on the Pro. An Arcade with a 20GB HDD drive would cost nearly the same as a 60GB Pro at $279.99 to produce.

MS loves to make things by no means clear about its division that aren't the two (the structure changed again, there were more divisions in the past) producing immense profits without any doubt. And then there is that huge generic container of losses, "Corporate level activity", that's not a division, but a balance sheet item, where MS shifts whichever cost, expense, loss it can from operative divisions budgets.

 



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW!   


Bitmap Frogs on 12 March 2009
PalmiNio said:
Bitmap Frogs said:

Frankly, you can hide behind the E&D division excuse for as long as you want. If that's the way you want to live, so be it. But out of both corporations, there's just one making money outta videogames.

 

And that is Nintendo. Sure MS is ticking in som cash now but they are miles away from getting even positive return for all the investment in 360, not to speak about Xbox 1.

The truth is that only 1 company of all 3 has done a succesfull jobb in makin money. If Microsoft and Sony had videoconsole as their prime market, like Nintendo, they wouldn't have surrived long.

 

"Out of both corporations" being Sony and Microsoft.

But of course, Nintendo is reaping huge profits. Heck, they were making money with the relative disasters the N64 and the Gamecube were, so imagine now that they are selling the hottest console in the market. Well, no need to imagine anything anyways, the financials tell the whole story.

And the Arcade will never, ever, have a hard disk. Maybe, down the line, they'll build a few gigs of flash memory inside - don't expect anything else. 

edit: woah, the OP got perma'd? for being an alt account?

 





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Garnett on 12 March 2009

PS3 needs Headset + 60$ for Socom with headset,1 game + 60$,component cable 30$ and PS2 for backwards comp.

$150 + $400 + 80 (refurb)= $630

360 needs- Wifi + $100 thats 400$ with 60gb hard drive and backwards comp.
+1 Year of Live $50 = $450

Lets make it 3 years of LIVE,the remainder of this Gen thats $550...Still cheaper than PS Trey.



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Magnific0 on 14 March 2009

^What's that part of your 4th grade math class or something? lol



Magnific0 on 14 March 2009

PS3 is just $400, no hassle, no RROD/E74/scratch disc failure

why add a PS2? you mean the 360 does any better with is piss-poor BC that NOBODY cares about? lol , but yeah add that $80 PS2 if you must.

There are $5-$20 very good HDMI cables, and you don't need to buy the official headset, you can easily get one as the Jabra for just $20 and it works perfectly, and its blutooth not that useless crap that comes packed with the Xbox. By the way, the 60GB 360 does NOT include HDMI so people have to buy that too, and don't tell me about component because that's crap.

3 years of LIVE really? how about an useless console and a LOT of useless games in 3 years? no warranty left, and all those games gone to hell, while there's an infinite higher chance people will still be playing their games on their same PS3, not for 3 years but for a lot more.



Squilliam on 14 March 2009
Magnific0 said:
PS3 is just $400, no hassle, no RROD/E74/scratch disc failure/games

why add a PS2? you mean the 360 does any better with is piss-poor BC that NOBODY cares about? lol , but yeah add that $80 PS2 if you must.

There are $5-$20 very good HDMI cables, and you don't need to buy the official headset, you can easily get one as the Jabra for just $20 and it works perfectly, and its blutooth not that useless crap that comes packed with the Xbox. By the way, the 60GB 360 does NOT include HDMI so people have to buy that too, and don't tell me about component because that's crap.

3 years of LIVE really? how about an useless console and a LOT of useless games in 3 years? no warranty left, and all those games gone to hell, while there's an infinite higher chance people will still be playing their games on their same PS3, not for 3 years but for a lot more.

Im going to hell because I couldn't stop myself.

 



Tease.

WereKitten on 14 March 2009

@Squilliam
Nah, just because liars do. ;) But yeah, I'm worried this trolling addiction will tarnish your karma. You should try going clean cold-turkey. After the deprivation sweats and shivers you'll feel much better.

@Magnific0
Thank you for correctly pointing out some of the obvious troubles with Garnett's fishy price math. The proof that you hit a spot is that you've been trolled instead of being addressed. I'd also raise with a "whut" about the $60 extra game - as the PS3 comes in nice bundles - and wonder why add a $80 PS2 to match 360's BC feature (actually greatly exceed it), but not add a $300 top-tier Blu-ray player to the cost of the 360.

But, you know, maybe we're trying to find way too much sense.



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