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Forums - Gaming Discussion - One of Spores developers says "Wii is a piece of..."

how often do you see developers lashing out at the console maker? hopefully he wouldn't be backtracking tomorrow. this is quite refreshing. have we entered an age where AI is that important yet? game AI has been essentially neglected forever--don't blame it on the lack of computing power, but rather this is not what people pay for. a secondary reason is probably the lack of understanding of AI by game designers. if so, programmers won't be asked to carry out the AI codes. also, the whole field of AI is still si still basically brute force and little else. even a factor of 10 or 20 doesn't help you that much, because you can just sacrifice some details to get results that in no way the gamer is gonna notice. so i don't know what specific things he had in mind about computing power, but i'm guessing maybe it's about games like spore that devotes a lot of computing power in explicitly simulating the creature's entire environment, and this simulation of the environment is crucial to the gaming experience. spore seems exactly like that kind of game--and now a factor of 10 or 20 will matter pretty much exactly 10 or 20 times.



the Wii is an epidemic.

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This is really ignorant. Wii is definitely lower in terms of raw power to the 360/ps3. However, is artistic style only defined by visuals? To have good AI do you really need a super computer? I would argue that the artistry of a game should encompass not only the visual display of the game, but the also the interaction with the game as well. That, to me, seems a very important part of a GAME. It is not a movie or a painting or music where all the user does is sit there and enjoy. A game is an full experience that must include the physical interaction. The Wii has by far a much larger advantage on this point and if I need to go into detail on why it has the advantage then please do not respond to my post as you should hand in your gamer card now and leave this forum forever. Another important part is the AI. However, I know for a fact that you do not need a super computer to have intelligent AI. If you look at my profile I mention that I am a software engineer. In my last year of school I took an AI class as an elective. Possibly one of the most interesting coding classes I took. During this class the final project was to create some sort of program that would have varying levels of AI, showing the basic differences on techniques. I created a tank battle scenario based on robo wars. I created 4 different AI's implementing 4 different techniques. The most advanced was a tank that basically designed itself through a technique that is best described as evolution. The program "learned" how to make a smarter tank through hundreds of battles until it eventually came to a tank that could not be defeated by anything else including all my classmates and teachers. It is highly responsive and completely unpredictable, unlike really any villian/boss in any game I have played. My point is that the actual resources used to do this were on a p3 box with 256mb of memory. AI is not the resource hog, the visuals and total qty of items/foes needing to be depicted are the problem. The Wii has every capability of showcasing a highly artistic game. Just as the PS2 (ff13) or GC (re4) had. The real problem is finding a designer with enough intelligence to sit down and actually create a well defined, resource friendly game. Nintendo has proven countless times that they can do that. Will Wright can definitely do it. If Spore does come to the wii, I bet it will be more equivalent to the PC version than a few of you think. From the videos I have seen, there is no reason to believe otherwise.



PS4 said: http://wii.ign.com/articles/771/771051p1.html GDC 2007: "The Wii is a Piece of Sh*t!" One of Spore's developers rants about Nintendo's "two GameCubes stuck together with duct tape." by Daemon Hatfield March 7, 2007 - During a session at GDC this morning titled 'Burning Mad - Game Publishers Rant,' time was taken about half way through to allow developers a chance to spew their own rants. One speaker, Chris Hecker, currently working on Spore at Maxis, took the opportunity to call out Nintendo for not taken games seriously. "The Wii is a piece of shit!" Hecker began his talk, which was called "Fear of a Wii Planet." He blasted a few bars of Public Enemy to set the tone. Hecker said the Wii is nothing more than two GameCubes stuck together with duct tape, and that the console isn't powerful enough to provide the next-gen experience he has been waiting for. Although he stated the system is "severely underpowered," Hecker noted that he wasn't simply referring to the Wii's graphical capabilities. He wants to spend a console's CPU making games more intelligent, and he has found the Wii doesn't have the power to process things like complicated AI. Hecker also took Nintendo to task for not taking games seriously enough. "It's not clear to me that Nintendo gives a shit about games as an art form," he said. To illustrate his point, he searched for references to games as art on all three console manufacturers web sites. While he found numerous such references on both the official PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 sites, Wii.com had none at all. He then shared quotes from executives at Sony and Microsoft talking about games as a serious artistic medium, and then a quote from a Nintendo executive saying the company only wanted to make "fun" games. Hecker ended his spirited rant with two demands for Nintendo: First, recognize and push games as serious art. And two, "make a console that doesn't suck ass."
I like Hecker, he said what I think! Nintendo needs to take his advice!



I like Hecker, he said what I think! Nintendo needs to take his advice!
If that means Nintendo should have released a 4-600 dollar console like the competition, count me and probably 90% of the current Wii fanbase out.



Nobody is crazy enough to accuse me of being sane.

Death2009 said:I like Hecker, he said what I think! Nintendo needs to take his advice!
I think Hecker is an idiot and so are...people that agree with him on this. The whole point of video games is to be fun. What the hell else were they made for? Oh yeah, to make money...right...get people to have fun so you can make money. Movies, books, etc also try to make money and they are considered art. Art can be just about anything, and if something is not art it can be made into art. The only thing I can think is that Hecker is worried that the industry will regress and not keep striving towards better graphics. I don't think that is the case. There is plenty of room for at least the Wii and the PS3 or 360, if not both of those as well. Bringing art into the argument was stupid.



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PS4 said: http://wii.ign.com/articles/771/771051p1.html GDC 2007: "The Wii is a Piece of Sh*t!" One of Spore's developers rants about Nintendo's "two GameCubes stuck together with duct tape." by Daemon Hatfield March 7, 2007 - During a session at GDC this morning titled 'Burning Mad - Game Publishers Rant,' time was taken about half way through to allow developers a chance to spew their own rants. One speaker, Chris Hecker, currently working on Spore at Maxis, took the opportunity to call out Nintendo for not taken games seriously. "The Wii is a piece of shit!" Hecker began his talk, which was called "Fear of a Wii Planet." He blasted a few bars of Public Enemy to set the tone. Hecker said the Wii is nothing more than two GameCubes stuck together with duct tape, and that the console isn't powerful enough to provide the next-gen experience he has been waiting for. Although he stated the system is "severely underpowered," Hecker noted that he wasn't simply referring to the Wii's graphical capabilities. He wants to spend a console's CPU making games more intelligent, and he has found the Wii doesn't have the power to process things like complicated AI. Hecker also took Nintendo to task for not taking games seriously enough. "It's not clear to me that Nintendo gives a shit about games as an art form," he said. To illustrate his point, he searched for references to games as art on all three console manufacturers web sites. While he found numerous such references on both the official PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 sites, Wii.com had none at all. He then shared quotes from executives at Sony and Microsoft talking about games as a serious artistic medium, and then a quote from a Nintendo executive saying the company only wanted to make "fun" games. Hecker ended his spirited rant with two demands for Nintendo: First, recognize and push games as serious art. And two, "make a console that doesn't suck ass."
He can rant forever about Wii and its sheer power, he probably didn't even put any effort on coding on that machine... People that rant for power are just bad coders IMHO!!! Look at what was done in the past with much less power (talking about GoW and Okami on the far inferior PS2, not to count Shadow of the colossus and FFXII) all of them considered a form of art. As for good AI, it's just a matter of optimising on what you are trying to do (ie: FPS are different from racing games that are different from shooters and so on), good AI were done in this past generation which again were far inferior to the Wii. If he 's unable to do a good AI for a game then just don't do it!!! If he need an Intel Core 2 Quad T6800 to do a good one then he better change his work, because neither the PS3 nor the X360 are powerful as a high end PC!!! Heck the sent man on the moon with a fuckin' pc that was powerful as a C64...



Be the Triforce with you!!!

windbane said: Death2009 said:I like Hecker, he said what I think! Nintendo needs to take his advice! I think Hecker is an idiot and so are...people that agree with him on this. The whole point of video games is to be fun. What the hell else were they made for? Oh yeah, to make money...right...get people to have fun so you can make money. Movies, books, etc also try to make money and they are considered art. Art can be just about anything, and if something is not art it can be made into art. The only thing I can think is that Hecker is worried that the industry will regress and not keep striving towards better graphics. I don't think that is the case. There is plenty of room for at least the Wii and the PS3 or 360, if not both of those as well. Bringing art into the argument was stupid.
Yeah, because everybody who doesn't agree with you is an idiot. Fun is different based on who you talk to. Some may find the Wii fun and others may think it sucks, some find GTA fun and other don't. You see? You may call the wiimote fun, I call it crap and would enjoy a game just fine with a control pad. A different controller won't make a bad game fun, so don't assume fun is the same for everybody when it's not.



You just contradicted yourself. You're saying some people may find Wii fun (i guess it's obvious, as it sold more than 5 mil right now) and yet you wrote that "Nintendo needs to take this advice". Face it. The Wii is not for you, as Killzone or Halo are not for me. We're different.



r2007 said: You just contradicted yourself. You're saying some people may find Wii fun (i guess it's obvious, as it sold more than 5 mil right now) and yet you wrote that "Nintendo needs to take this advice". Face it. The Wii is not for you, as Killzone or Halo are not for me. We're different.
I didn't contradict myself, he said Nintendo needs to make a better system and I agree. As for your second part, read my post again and see I JUST SAID THAT!



Death2009 said: r2007 said: You just contradicted yourself. You're saying some people may find Wii fun (i guess it's obvious, as it sold more than 5 mil right now) and yet you wrote that "Nintendo needs to take this advice". Face it. The Wii is not for you, as Killzone or Halo are not for me. We're different. I didn't contradict myself, he said Nintendo needs to make a better system and I agree. As for your second part, read my post again and see I JUST SAID THAT!
Yes, you did. Nintendo doesn't NEED to make a better system. that is based on yourself, not on the millions that already bought the Wii. They made choices and came up with something cheap and appealing for some consumers. You too can choose to buy something "better".