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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo, Third Parties: What's it gonna take?

For some time Nintendo's been in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" sort of situation. Whatever they did with their console this generation, they wouldn't have gotten 3rd party support. I mean, the GameCube was right there with the PS2 and Xbox, but still got ignored. A metaphorical GameCube 2 would have been in the same boat. So Nintendo did what they always do: what was best for Nintendo. The third parties can choose to adapt, or not. However, in a lot of cases, they are basically forced to adapt or fail financially.

 

I'm not saying everyone should develop for Wii. If its not your thing, nobody's forcing you (such situations tend to produce bad games anyway), but in the case of many 3rd parties its a matter of survival. A general shakedown of the industry's business plan is needed, but Wii development is a good stopgap



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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megaman79 said:
Words Of Wisdom said:

Developers want to make bigger, better, flashier games. The Wii's hardware will not allow them to do that.

It seems quite a few would rather face financial peril than take the step down to the Wii's level.

Nintendo can't do anything about that. It's just a matter of waiting and seeing who's left at the end of this generation.

 

I don't think thats it at all. I think they still believe they can sell more copies of their "style of game" to 360 and PS3 owners than they can on Wii, in alot of cases its true but in other cases its not. Look at the genres of games that are suddenly competiting and in some cases surpassing the PS360 totals, sport, adventure, platforming, rhythm, etc. One by one the Wii is knocking them down in case you haven't noticed.

Im hopin HOTD does something magical in the next 6 months, not for onrails sake but for mature gamings sake. It looks like Madworld is sleepwalking to a million so thats half the work done. I dont think Conduit is going to do it, i think another 2 or 3 COD's will. RS2 for sure.

Dev. will notice that although Mushroom men, Deadly Creatures and other games have died more importantly other titles haven't. They have been selling better and better as market share grows.

I don't understand how you can, on the one hand, say developers aren't making games for the Wii because they don't see profit in it while on the other hand pointing out genres on the Wii which are selling well.



Back in the day like the SNES and NES era I read (and cannot quote) than Nintendo had been jerks to a lot of developers and censored and restricted a lot of the games and steep publishing fees. And when the PS1 came around developers were happy to bail on Ninty. Nintendo has managed to find it's way back to the top without groveling to 3rd party publishers after 2 generations at the bottom. I doubt they will start now.



Steroid said:
Back in the day like the SNES and NES era I read (and cannot quote) than Nintendo had been jerks to a lot of developers and censored and restricted a lot of the games and steep publishing fees. And when the PS1 came around developers were happy to bail on Ninty. Nintendo has managed to find it's way back to the top without groveling to 3rd party publishers after 2 generations at the bottom. I doubt they will start now.

Nintendo had a monopoly with their NES system.  They were jerks to everyone because they were rich, the NES was in huge demand, and everyone wanted a pieceo of the pie.  Then Sega came along and gave them a swift kick to the rear.  Unfortunately Nintendo didn't learn enough from that before going into the N64 era.



Words Of Wisdom said:
megaman79 said:
Words Of Wisdom said:

Developers want to make bigger, better, flashier games. The Wii's hardware will not allow them to do that.

It seems quite a few would rather face financial peril than take the step down to the Wii's level.

Nintendo can't do anything about that. It's just a matter of waiting and seeing who's left at the end of this generation.

 

I don't think thats it at all. I think they still believe they can sell more copies of their "style of game" to 360 and PS3 owners than they can on Wii, in alot of cases its true but in other cases its not. Look at the genres of games that are suddenly competiting and in some cases surpassing the PS360 totals, sport, adventure, platforming, rhythm, etc. One by one the Wii is knocking them down in case you haven't noticed.

Im hopin HOTD does something magical in the next 6 months, not for onrails sake but for mature gamings sake. It looks like Madworld is sleepwalking to a million so thats half the work done. I dont think Conduit is going to do it, i think another 2 or 3 COD's will. RS2 for sure.

Dev. will notice that although Mushroom men, Deadly Creatures and other games have died more importantly other titles haven't. They have been selling better and better as market share grows.

I don't understand how you can, on the one hand, say developers aren't making games for the Wii because they don't see profit in it while on the other hand pointing out genres on the Wii which are selling well.

 

Maybe its not about profit at all, its about units and PS360 moves more. Im saying dev. are making better games for other systems still and only now are trying to make Wii games at the same level of quality. Because of this more varietys of genres are selling better on the Wii



“When we make some new announcement and if there is no positive initial reaction from the market, I try to think of it as a good sign because that can be interpreted as people reacting to something groundbreaking. ...if the employees were always minding themselves to do whatever the market is requiring at any moment, and if they were always focusing on something we can sell right now for the short term, it would be very limiting. We are trying to think outside the box.” - Satoru Iwata - This is why corporate multinationals will never truly understand, or risk doing, what Nintendo does.

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I think Nintendo has already done it. By becoming a disruptive competitor they are marginalizing the competition. MS is fighting that marginalization while Sony seems to be sleepwalking further into it, looking to out-core the 360.

Assuming Nintendo can maintain their momentum (something that's now slightly in doubt after the misstep of AC:CF and Wii Music) they will grow their new audience to double or more the size of the competition. With a development cost at 1/4 to 1/3 that of the HD twins it'll make developing for Wii an almost sure thing profit-wise while the HD systems become an ever greater gamble as that market always wants more - more graphics, more features, more complexity, more expensive development. After all a sequal can never be the same but different, it must always be perceived as better as well.

The old market design has run it's course and is now dying. 3rd parties are struggling to make profits off of the old model (alone), most are continually in the red. They will either adapt to the new paradigm, die off or become a niche market supplier.

The traditional model is dying because of two main factors: the development cost vs profit margin of HD development - and development for the 14-24 male sector in general - and the used game market / piracy.
Nintendo suffers from neither problem as their development costs are totally in line with profitability (even on unsuccessful games - you have to bomb pretty hard to not at least break even on Wii/DS) and Nintendo games and the more casual games are no where nearly as frequent on Used shelves nor does their market tend to pirate games (even though it's brain-dead easy on DS).

Nintendo had the foresight (they had to) to see where the market was heading and sidestep it. They risked everything but realized everything was already at risk if they just stayed with the status quo anyway.

Now it's a misnomer to say Nintendo or Wii don't have 3rd party support since Wii (and DS) have far more games made for it then the HD systems do. It's just a quality judgment and largely, a question of 'core' games - IE that 14-24 male market. Quality is coming and will continue as 3rd parties realize that they need to step it up to be truly successful on Wii. THQ is right - Nintendo is the only competition that matters and you have to have comparible quality if you ever hope to see comparible results. As for 'core' games; Those may never come. We may get more M titles that are aimed at 30+ market like Sega is doing but the classic 'core' market is too spoiled to accept a mass market machine. They'll keep one or both HD systems alive or, should they fall, goto PCs (again).



 

Words Of Wisdom said:
Steroid said:

Nintendo had a monopoly with their NES system.  They were jerks to everyone because they were rich, the NES was in huge demand, and everyone wanted a pieceo of the pie.  Then Sega came along and gave them a swift kick to the rear.  Unfortunately Nintendo didn't learn enough from that before going into the N64 era.

 

This is another point of interest. It is often said that the two primary reasons that the N64 lost so much 3rd party support are 1.) poor treatment of said parties and 2.) cartridges and their limitations. However, to my knowledge, there were never reports of Sega, or NEC, or heck, even Panasonic dishing out this kind of tyrannical treatment, and all three of these companies had even been offering CD-based consoles before (or at the same time for 32-bit) newcomer Sony. Yet almost every third party out there was tripping over each other to get their games on the PS1. Sure, some of those consoles were a bit pricey, but all the more reason to compare the situation today. I don't know. Sometimes third parties just seem a bit fickle to me.