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A personal investigation into the varying models of the PS3

Forums - Sony Discussion - A personal investigation into the varying models of the PS3

As others said, this includes the PS3, PSP, anyone with multiple accounts all of which are counted, and anyone who signed up on the Playstation website and doesn't even own a PS3.

That's like comparing 20 million in their "network" to Windows LIVE + Xbox Live + Xbox.com + Games for Windows, etc. etc.
Pretty sure if we did this the Xbox "network" would be much MUCH larger.


The Resistance 2 online graphics were like mind blowingly bad. They reminded me of Call of Duty 2 level, if not worse. The campaign graphics were good, but the online was awful and you all should be able to admit that.


On a side note, when my cousin had to get his PS3 repaired twice for faulty Blu-Ray drive, he got a mess of trouble with their customer service, and 2 $100 fees for repairs. Did he swear to never buy a Sony console again? No, and he still enjoys his PS3 today.


Using the screenshots supplied, I'd say PS3 graphics haven't gotten better at all, and has even slipped lower in a few areas.

he delay from thinking "I want to fire" and pulling the trigger is not the issue, as that would be the same between using a controller and a firearm. The real issue is the delay from when you hit the trigger to when you see/hear the bullet. There is no 131ms delay from when I pull the trigger on a real life weapon to when the bullet leaves the barrel. The game definitely made it way too long of a delay. No way to justify it.

Although, it could be the incentive I need to sell off my PS3 and become a single console man again!

Where motion control falls apart is when it's an afterthought as it is on the PS3, or when you try to do it with cameras looking at your hands or face or whatever (this never works right once you get it into the living room with strange lighting, it's imprecise, and it's hard to fully integrate into games to control menus, pausing the game, and so on).

Yeah, it can give you the view from the hip, where everything looks taller and you seem like a midget. It has a 130ms delay.(making fun of killzone 2 and its engine)

ony is the one hurting the industry right now by adding high developer costs and complicated hardware (which drove at least 2 companies out of business).

Still makes me wonder just how many PSN accounts are unique, considering I'm sure thousands of them if not more are duplicates created to take advantage of different regions (UK for example) or certain games (CoD 4/5).

I'd rather pay a very small premium of $3 per month to get great quality online play for all my games than to pay a high premium for just one game like many PC gamers who like MMO's. Plus with the added quality in games like Call of Duty, it ensures that I pick the game for the 360 since LIVE is so much better especially on multiplat games.

Need I go on? Need I continue to show how biased you are?



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Thank you Dryden for that input. I agree that the lag is likely not to do to the TV, but I just want to be thorough. I'm sure it will be ruled out by the rest of the input.

Squilliam, do you think they kept these newer, cheaper modifications for the new 80 and 160GB models?

 

@Sharky, are any of those statements false?  Nope.  Therefore why was I in the wrong for stating them?  A few of those were articles I posted, by the way, not my posts.  I am not "biased", I am probably more unbiased since I have experience with both consoles extensively and don't buy into the hype machine.  Enjoy your ban, by the way.



Dryden said:
Squilliam said:
There are some very important considerations here:

1. You must play the games on the same TV because different LCDs/CRTs have differing levels of 'lag' based on whether its upscaling, post processing, whether theres a game mode etc.

2. HDD speed doesn't factor into this IMO because you're running whats in main memory and thats the same between the systems.

3. The controllers and blu-tooth spec are important, that may be a source of the lag if they were changed in the controller or console. To test plug the controller into the USB and repeat the experiments, alse switch the controllers around between consoles.

The LCD/CRT issue is a red herring, because the "lag" people are complaining about is primarily due to three things (all in Killzone 2):

1. The generous dead zone on the sticks.

2. The slow sampling rate from the controller which causes the ~1/15th frame delay between pulling the trigger and seeing the fire animation on screen as well as discarding abrupt flicks of the sticks completely.

3. The lack of aim assist (except for the L1/flashlight 'bug' on the shotgun, which will be patched out).

If these issues were actually caused by the interconnection of the console to the TV, they'd be present in a lot of things other than Killzone 2, yet nobody has ever noticed them before. Frankly, if it were indeed an issue, Guitar Hero and Rock Band would be unplayable with that kind of delay.

OP: I have a original BC launch 60Gb. Never had a problem with it. I don't perceive any non-responsiveness in anything I play, and that's included an overdose of Killzone 2, LBP, Fallout 3, GH: World Tour, and Warhawk over the past three to four months.

 

 

 I didn't notice any dead zone.

I have a 60gb launch model as well. i'm playing with on Olevia 27 in (327v model) lcd HDTV. I didn't notice any lag but a friend of mine who has a 40gb did complain about how it was "hard to aim"  compared to COD. It is harder to aim in general because there's no aim assist but I'll have to find out if he's experiencing any lag.



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

"Multithreaded game engines also usually have more input to screen lag than single threaded game engines. To get max power out of the current console platforms, multithreading is required.

Usually you are processing game logic and physics on one (or several threads) at the same time as you are rendering (separate render & render setup & culling thread). The rendering must be done using last frame game state, as the current frame game state is not ready yet (physics and game logic threads are processing it on different threads).

Single threaded game game loop:
1. Process input
2. Process game logic & physics
3. Render frame

Multithreaded game loop:
1. Start rendering graphics by using last frame finished game state in it's own thread(s)
2. Process input
3. Process game logic & physics (usually in multiple threads)
(4. Graphics thread is finished around here and updates the visible frame independently on game logic & physics)
5. Synchnonize threads

With the multithreaded setup you get slightly longer input lag. The maximum input lag equals the time it takes the graphics chip to render the frame."

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1270913&postcount=27

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3725/measuring_responsiveness_in_video_.php?page=3

Game lag article

I believe that you're correct, and that this may be one of the under appreciated benefits of the Xbox 360's built-in scaler. I've measured lag using the Rock Band 2 calibration system, and I found the following:

Xbox set to output 1080p directly to my 1080p Aquos LCD TV: 0 ms video lag (very repeatable)
Xbox set to output 1080p to my Yamaha AVR, then the TV: 20 ms lag

It appears that the TV buffers a frame or even two while scaling the picture from 720p to 1080p native resolution, while the receiver fairly efficiently strips the audio from the HDMI and passes the video through to the TV.

I'd like to conduct similar measurements on my PS3, but I have no software with which to do so.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1270437&postcount=5



Tease.

Sharky54 said:
As others said, this includes the PS3, PSP, anyone with multiple accounts all of which are counted, and anyone who signed up on the Playstation website and doesn't even own a PS3.

That's like comparing 20 million in their "network" to Windows LIVE + Xbox Live + Xbox.com + Games for Windows, etc. etc.
Pretty sure if we did this the Xbox "network" would be much MUCH larger.


The Resistance 2 online graphics were like mind blowingly bad. They reminded me of Call of Duty 2 level, if not worse. The campaign graphics were good, but the online was awful and you all should be able to admit that.


On a side note, when my cousin had to get his PS3 repaired twice for faulty Blu-Ray drive, he got a mess of trouble with their customer service, and 2 $100 fees for repairs. Did he swear to never buy a Sony console again? No, and he still enjoys his PS3 today.


Using the screenshots supplied, I'd say PS3 graphics haven't gotten better at all, and has even slipped lower in a few areas.

he delay from thinking "I want to fire" and pulling the trigger is not the issue, as that would be the same between using a controller and a firearm. The real issue is the delay from when you hit the trigger to when you see/hear the bullet. There is no 131ms delay from when I pull the trigger on a real life weapon to when the bullet leaves the barrel. The game definitely made it way too long of a delay. No way to justify it.

Although, it could be the incentive I need to sell off my PS3 and become a single console man again!

Where motion control falls apart is when it's an afterthought as it is on the PS3, or when you try to do it with cameras looking at your hands or face or whatever (this never works right once you get it into the living room with strange lighting, it's imprecise, and it's hard to fully integrate into games to control menus, pausing the game, and so on).

Yeah, it can give you the view from the hip, where everything looks taller and you seem like a midget. It has a 130ms delay.(making fun of killzone 2 and its engine)

ony is the one hurting the industry right now by adding high developer costs and complicated hardware (which drove at least 2 companies out of business).

Still makes me wonder just how many PSN accounts are unique, considering I'm sure thousands of them if not more are duplicates created to take advantage of different regions (UK for example) or certain games (CoD 4/5).

I'd rather pay a very small premium of $3 per month to get great quality online play for all my games than to pay a high premium for just one game like many PC gamers who like MMO's. Plus with the added quality in games like Call of Duty, it ensures that I pick the game for the 360 since LIVE is so much better especially on multiplat games.

Need I go on? Need I continue to show how biased you are?

You need to sell your ps3.

 



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

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Squilliam said:

The 40GB model is the uber cheap "We are totally desperate to get out of the crap hole we dug ourselves" model. So it may be they cheaped out on the blu-tooth controller on this model and switched it with one which had higher latency.

My specs:

60GB PS3
Killzone 2 running @ 720P on my Bravia 53" 1080P set with game mode on.
Original Sixaxis controller.
No latency that I am aware of.

Edit: Running HDMI and controller unplugged.

Haha, yeah that is quite true! At the time of getting my PS3 many told me it would come down in price and that I am wasting my money getting it the day it came out. Oh how I am glad I made that decision now!

Although I can't say much with regards my Xbox, I got it for free, minus faceplate, without a HDD, from a skip (yeah sounds really dodgey!) and with a cracked casing. So far I have managed to get a faceplate for free, now for the HDD!

 



PSN: Gippon

Just some extra info I trawled up. If the LCD didn't have game mode it would have been slower again.



Tease.

Would response time of the tv in ms make a difference to this investigation?



PSN: Gippon

@Gippon, no it wouldn't. That would just effect the picture on the screen. Ghosting etc.



Tease.

Gippon said:
Would response time of the tv in ms make a difference to this investigation?

I guess that kind of depends on if the TV is actually a factor.  As squilliam posted, it could very well be, although a 5ms response time isn't going to slow things very much at all.  Not when the measured delay on the PS3 is around 130ms.  Although, I'm no TV expert