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Forums - General Discussion - Venezuela and its next step to a dictatorship

CARACAS, Venezuela – President Hugo Chavez won a referendum to eliminate term limits Sunday and vowed to remain in power for at least another decade to complete his socialist revolution. Opponents accepted defeat but said Chavez is becoming a dictator.

Fireworks exploded in the sky and caravans of supporters celebrated in the streets, waving red flags and honking horns. Thousands of people gathered outside Miraflores Palace, where the former paratroop commander appeared on a balcony to sing the national anthem and address the crowd.

"Those who voted 'yes' today voted for socialism, for revolution," Chavez said. He called the victory — which allows all public officials to run for re-election indefinitely — a mandate to speed his transformation of Venezuela into a socialist state.

"Today we opened wide the gates of the future," he said. "In 2012 there will be presidential elections, and unless God decides otherwise, unless the people decide otherwise, this soldier is already a candidate."

With 94 percent of the vote counted, 54 percent had voted for the constitutional amendment, National Electoral Council chief Tibisay Lucena said. Forty-six percent had voted against it, a trend she called irreversible. She said turnout was 67 percent.

At their campaign headquarters, Chavez opponents hugged one another, and some cried. Several opposition leaders said they wouldn't contest the vote.

"We're democrats. We accept the results," said opposition leader Omar Barboza.

But they said the results were skewed by Chavez's broad use of state resources to get out the vote, through a battery of state-run news media, pressure on 2 million public employees and frequent presidential speeches which all television stations are required to air.

Opponents say Chavez already has far too much power, with the courts, the legislature and the election council all under his influence. Removing the 12-year presidential term limit, they say, makes him unstoppable.

"Effectively this will become a dictatorship," Barboza told The Associated Press. "It's control of all the powers, lack of separation of powers, unscrupulous use of state resources, persecution of adversaries."

Voters on both sides said the referendum was crucial to the future of Venezuela, a deeply polarized country where Chavez has spent a tumultuous decade in power channeling tremendous oil wealth into combating gaping social inequality.

Chavez supporters say their president has given poor Venezuelans cheap food, free education and quality health care, and empowered them with a discourse of class struggle after decades of U.S.-backed governments that favored the rich.

"This victory saved the revolution," said Gonzalo Mosqueda, a 60-year-old shopkeeper, sipping rum from a plastic cup outside the palace. "Without it everything would be at risk — all the social programs, and everything he has done for the poor."

Chavez took office in 1999 and won support for a new constitution the same year that allowed the president to serve two six-year terms, barring him from the 2012 elections. Sunday's vote was his second attempt to change that; voters rejected a broader referendum in December 2007.

Venezuela's leftist allies in Latin America have followed the model. Ecuador pushed through a new constitution in September and Bolivia did so in January. Both loosened rules on presidential re-election. Nicaragua's ruling Sandinistas also plan to propose an amendment that would let Daniel Ortega run for another consecutive term.

 

What MrBubbles Thinks:

Didnt the people already tell him no?  I dont think these results can be trusted.  he didnt have the support last time.  it seems rather rediculous that he just can keep calling for a referendum on the matter until he wins(or rigs it).



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lol a good dictator is 10,000 times better than a bad president, socialism and equality is the way things should go. but yes people already told him NO, i'm on chavez side but if he fucked up the results he'd better step down.



 

MrBubbles said:What MrBubbles Thinks:

Didnt the people already tell him no?  I dont think these results can be trusted.  he didnt have the support last time.  it seems rather rediculous that he just can keep calling for a referendum on the matter until he wins(or rigs it).

This referendum was significantly different than the 2007 referendum. The previous referendum proposed over 60 amendments to the Constitution, this only changed a few amendments that pertained to term limits. Also, most reports have indicated that the vote was free and fair. With that being said, a case could be made that the preceding campaign was weighted in favor of Chavez and his supporters.

 



well, it's all about the people. if the people agree with him, you gotta listen to the people.

it could be wrong, but hey, it could also work out. historically is hasn't worked out that frequently, but it doesn't mean dictatorship is necessarily a bad thing.



the Wii is an epidemic.

I like how the super-leftists talk about "the revolution" like they haven't been the ones in charge for however long.

The ability to remain in power indefinitely is pro-revolution now according to this logic, how interesting.



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Australian prime-ministers are allowed to be elected for as many terms as they like aslong as they can maintain the peoples favor, its also illegal to not vote in my country. But what works in one country doesn't necessarily work in another.



He still has 4 years left from his 2nd term and he already plan to be president until 2030 at least or until the people decides (which is something every dictator has said).

I do not support Chavez but I respect that he was elected for a 2nd term until 2013, the problem is that in Venezuela the president has too much power (more power than any president of the EU countries) and now that Chavez can run as many times he wants I'm afraid he'll starve for more power and make a mess of this country. If we humans don't learn the lessons history has for us then we'll never make any progress socially, my hope is that one day all humans can have at least a little dignity and quality of life...



If you analyse electoral participation rates in Venezuela since the 50's it has never been as democratic as today.


Anti-Chavez people need to evolve, really. Nobody takes them seriously anymore.



God i hate fanboys, almost as much as they hate facts

 

“If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea” Antoine de St-Exupery

  +2Q  -2N  (to be read in french)

I hate the guy but he really has developed the perfect 21st century mold that dictators will follow for the next 100 or so years.

1. Instead of Secret Police, keep the streets dangerously filled with thugs. People are afraid to gather in public, or go out at night... but it doesn't cost Chavez anything.

2. Forget trying to better the circumstances of the poor and limiting wealth (like traditional Communists). Just limit wealth.

3. Hold real elections, but dominate with a distasteful amount of publicity and make state employees and the military afraid that they will suffer if you lose.

Putin does it too, but Chavez got it first. Putin was much slower.



I would cite regulation, but I know you will simply ignore it.

Yep. And remember democracy quite literally means the tyranny of the majority. So if a person controls all the media etc, he can easily get the popular vote making it a de-facto dictatorship.