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Forums - General Discussion - Nurse suspended for prayer offer

highwaystar101 said:
mrstickball said:
Crazy. Very sad to see this happen to the nurse.

There's a big gap between someone randomly asking 'may I pray for you' and forcing someone to pray with them. It seems the former is the case with this issue.

I think that there may be more to the story, but as-is it sounds that the company + the patient are being pretty anal about the situation. It's not the end of the world if someone cares enough for someone to pray for them.

Next, we'll be going back to the days of Daniel, and throwing people in jail because they found out they were unwilling participants in a prayer :-

But I think that offering to pray during work hours is just as bad, it's shows a religious bias, regardless of if anything is done or not. In place of medicine religious bias can cause major trouble. This is because different religions have different thoughts about medicine.

For example, if I was a Jehovas witness and a surgeon, I could not go into surgery everyday and refuse to do half of them because according to my religion blood tranfusions are unholy, it will just cause problems.

Another example, if a patient was christian and the doctor was hindu, it would not mix in a place of medicine. Could you imagine a hindu doctor telling a christian patient that they may get better if they start being nicer due to karma, but if not never mind, you will be reincarnated. That would make a christians head explode.

I know tehse examples are more extreme than the nurse, but that is why the rule is in effect, you have to be strict, give em an inch and they take a mile.

And further more, my girlfriend is a third year medicine student and jewish (not a big one mind). When she goes to hosital every morning she leaves that at the door and she becomes a godless doctor, the way it should be. There is no problem with faith outside a place of medcine, but inside, offering faith is a step too far.

 

Religious bias could cause trouble in medicine, yes, but prayer cannot. Prayer is a differnt ballpark than beliefs, or other praxis of religion, since it's rather universal in it's execution.

Having said that, I find it very sad that your girlfriend leaves God at the door at work. When you are in the medical profession, some of what you do is motivated by caring for your patients. I worked in the medical field as well. I understand the fine line - your there to care for the patients not to convert them - *but* at the same time, you do find a lot of patients that are very receptive to the opportunity of prayer. I can't remember how many people I prayed with, or told them I'd pray for them out of the patients I cared for while being in the medical field. Of course, you have to be sensitive about it - I never talked about religion unless the patient mentioned it first.

Again, I think there's more to this story before we pass judgement on the nurse, as well as the patient. The nurse may have indeed stepped over the boundaries by forcing prayer on a patient. However, she may have casually mentioned it to a very bitter person, and that person took advantage of it by attempting to ruin her career.

I'm sure, however, there are plenty of nursing homes that have heard of this story, and are willing to take the nurse in due to this. So good may come of it.



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highwaystar101 said:
mesoteto said:
I don’t know i think it’s a shame when someone gets in trouble for trying to be a good person….dam shame


And its a proven fact that faith can have a very positive effect in the field of medicine---not just the Christian faith mind you


But people that believe they are going to get better and have someone helping them along do heal faster and respond better to treatments then people that don’t

Studies have proven this

 

Need links

 

http://www.bio-medicine.org/medicine-news/Faith-May-Help-Stroke-Victims-18304-1/

http://www.goodnewsblog.com/2007/04/11/study-shows-more-doctors-mix-faith-medicine

http://www.lupusmn.org/the-power-of-belief-surprising-studies-on-faith-and-health-article.php

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/158/8/1347

i am at work so i cant look tomuch but these should help point you in the right direction



 

highwaystar101 said:
mrstickball said:
Crazy. Very sad to see this happen to the nurse.

There's a big gap between someone randomly asking 'may I pray for you' and forcing someone to pray with them. It seems the former is the case with this issue.

I think that there may be more to the story, but as-is it sounds that the company + the patient are being pretty anal about the situation. It's not the end of the world if someone cares enough for someone to pray for them.

Next, we'll be going back to the days of Daniel, and throwing people in jail because they found out they were unwilling participants in a prayer :-

This is just general, not aimed at you mrstickball.

 

But I think that offering to pray during work hours is just as bad, it's shows a religious bias, regardless of if anything is done or not. In place of medicine religious bias can cause major trouble. This is because different religions have different thoughts about medicine.

For example, if I was a Jehovas witness and a surgeon, I could not go into surgery everyday and refuse to do half of them because according to my religion blood tranfusions are unholy, it will just cause problems.

Another example, if a patient was christian and the doctor was hindu, it would not mix in a place of medicine. Could you imagine a hindu doctor telling a christian patient that they may get better if they start being nicer due to karma, but if not never mind, you will be reincarnated. That would make a christians head explode.

I know tehse examples are more extreme than the nurse, but that is why the rule is in effect, you have to be strict, give em an inch and they take a mile.

And further more, my girlfriend is a third year medicine student and jewish (not a big one mind). When she goes to hosital every morning she leaves that at the door and she becomes a godless doctor, the way it should be. There is no problem with faith outside a place of medcine, but inside, offering faith is a step too far.

 

 

I'm sorry but the bolded is either inacurrate or straight up wrong . Everyone is bias in a sense there is no true objectivity , "religous bias" is just a term your applying to a person who bases their beliefs and ideas on religion , there's nothing wrong with this if it doesn't conflict with the interests of the patient.

You argue about how religion causes problems in medicine and then cite the example of the Jehovah witness surgeon , surley a person with such beliefs wouldn't become a surgeon in the first place knowing what the work involves. And as for the Hindu christian conflict , Christians (the one's I know as well as myself) are encouraged to be tollerant of other religions and other people , tolerance is an expression of love and we are encouraged to "love thy neighbour" listening to some one talk about their religion as opposed to having your "head explode" would be more tolerant and loving therfore being more christian.

If your going to argue nurses shouldn't embrace religion at work then you might as well argue they shouldn't really be human like , they shouldn't talk about their hobbies , show any sign of having a differing opinion or idea basically be robot like ... a corporate tool . Then we'd get complaints about how nurses were impresonal and the negative effect it had on the hospital enviroment.


It's shocking how an act of good faith is reward by retribution.



ssj12 said:
WraithPriest said:
ssj12 said:
lolita said:
I think they made a big story with a simple matter as this one but I have to say, even though it's good intentions, she shouldn't do that... Religion is a personal thing plus not everyone is a Christian... -_-'

 

your right, thats why the Jews, Muslims, and everyother faith prays... puts a hole in your arguement doesnt it?

 

Not everyone is a member of the Abrahamic religions or other so called "faiths" - makes quite a hole in your argument. 

See now i WOULD have been offended if someone offered to pray for me, because i am about as far from that as it's possible to be. However i would have just declined the offer and sent her on her way, I wouldn't have kicked up a fuss or anything like that, but i wouldn't of been happy.

Edit - also, would you say that refusing people treatments for STIs or refusing to put people in to place for an abortion is allowed because of religion? Because that is what alot of muslim doctors are doing.

Fact is if you support this womans right to offer prayers and religion in any way you're also giving other people the right to use religion to refuse treatments.

So what your saying is your argument sucks? that's what I thought. When did I say JUST Arabic faiths? I meant everything from Buddhism to Hinduism to the Roman Catholic faiths. Since when was Roman Catholic an Arabic faith?

SO if you were ill and a women caring for you was doing her job 100% but was willing to go out of her way to pray for your well being also you would be offended if she was a Catholic, Jew, Christian, Islam, Hindu, etc?

There is NOTHING here about anyone with a faith not taking religion over her medical job. Anyone who is seeing this like that seriously need to open your eyes and learn how to read because frankly your arguments are complete failures at the moment.

 

I said Abrahamic, not Arabic, learn what things mean before just changing it to a word you DO know.

 

What i was actually pointing out is that saying other faiths pray DOESN'T cover people who are atheist or LaVeyan Satanist or any other faith or belief system that doesn't believe in a "higher power"

 

So if I was ill, yeah, i would be offended that they wanted to pray for me. If they really felt like doing it themselves without pestering me with the knowledge that they wanted to.

 

PS. Aside from the part telling ME to learn to read your last paragraph is a undecipherable mess. Try posting it again clearer.



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I think keeping medicine and religion separate is fine.

I think suspending a woman with only good intentions is not fine.


Sit her down, tell her it's not acceptable, and ask her not to do it anymore. Don't take away her job for it.



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I had a chat with one of my house mates a second ago and she reckons that she would not have got suspended for it, which makes her think that either several patients have complained before this complaint or she wasn't any good as a nurse and this was the feather that broke camels back type of situation.



Words Of Wisdom said:
I think keeping medicine and religion separate is fine.

I think suspending a woman with only good intentions is not fine.


Sit her down, tell her it's not acceptable, and ask her not to do it anymore. Don't take away her job for it.

 

It's not the first time she's broken the rules regarding faith at work though.

 

She was warned in October that if she promoted her faith at work again she could end up being investigated for serious misconduct due to her using her "professional status to promote causes that are not related to health” after the carer of someone she visited was given a "Hand made prayer card"

 

So she was warned at least 2 months prior to this to stop offering prayers etc.

 

EDIT: I suppose this probably applies to what highwaystar101 just posted as well.



"Everything I tell you is a lie. Every question I ask you is a trick. You will find no truth in me."

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WraithPriest said:
Words Of Wisdom said:
I think keeping medicine and religion separate is fine.

I think suspending a woman with only good intentions is not fine.


Sit her down, tell her it's not acceptable, and ask her not to do it anymore. Don't take away her job for it.

It's not the first time she's broken the rules regarding faith at work though.

She was warned in October that if she promoted her faith at work again she could end up being investigated for serious misconduct due to her using her "professional status to promote causes that are not related to health” after the carer of someone she visited was given a "Hand made prayer card"

So she was warned at least 2 months prior to this to stop offering prayers etc.

EDIT: I suppose this probably applies to what highwaystar101 just posted as well.

I missed that part.  In that case, she ignored the warnings and was punished.



WessleWoggle said:
epsilon72 said:
WessleWoggle said:
I think she deserved it. Unfounded religious beliefs, like prayer, should not be mixed with your work.


What the hell?  You may not believe in the way they choose to do it, but what's wrong with other people wishing for your wellbeing?  They're not trying to convert you, they're just showing that they care for you.

A prayer offer makes me think less of a person, which makes me unhappy, because I don't like to think less of people.

I do not like prayer if you tell anyone about it, only prayer that you keep in your heart.

Even the bible agrees with me:

Matthew 6:5-6

"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."

 

 


All that verse is saying is not to make a show out of your spiritualism; it doesn't say you shouldn't pray for anyone.

 



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Why is this a big deal anyways? why Didn't she just say no thanks, was it necessary to complain like a little whiny bitch?