ok this is simple, this is to discuss not only our views on the conflict, but also, what do we think caused it, whether we believe it was justified and where we think its going, my views are clear in my other thread - http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=55787

Please no trolling or insults (this applies to all)

Happy Debating Everyone

I don't feel like running through any more mod jobs, so leave your childish slap fests at the door. That's all.

Happy debating folks.

lets keep it clean

right, ill get things started, i think that the best solution is for a UN brokered cease fire, then Israel should recognize a palestinian state in gaza and then the UN, Israel and the Palestinians should be involved in a lasting peace treaty and the disarming or disbanding of Hamas

A ceasefire needs to happen. No one is going to win via these tactics... The past 40 years have taught us that.

The US (and much of western Europe) needs to take a step back from Israel. While in the past they've been victimized by the rest of the region, I don't see that happening anymore and if they do attack another nation, they shouldn't have the entire weight of the west looking menacingly over their shoulder in support.

The problem is that if Israel is forced to recognize another nation, will it do any good? Will that nation stop bitching about how its borders should be (fill in random latitude/longitude here)? Israel may be on sketchy ground here but let's not pretend that Hamas isn't directly responsible for continuing this ridiculous "war". Neither side is innocent here and frankly, I don't see an easy solution appearing any time soon. There's far too much political intrigue and historical animosity to easily resolve this.

Imo Israel should seize any action, if you suppress a county its only fair they retaliate with bombs.

Not just a ceasefire of military attacks, but a real releasing of all harassment. This means Israel cannot continue its blockade of Palestinian territories. Food, fuel, and other human necessities needs to be allowed in.

As for a long term solution for the region, I feel it is possible if done in a similar way as this.

First off, Israel needs to initiate real change. They need to quit adding fuel to the fire of Hamas and other militant organizations. When they get them to agree to halt military actions, as happened not to long ago, they need to implement change that will make the remaining Palestinian sector physically see change on the ground in their daily lives.

1. Israel must fully acknowledge its support for a stable and friendly Palestine.
2. Israel must begin to remove settlements that are obviously not going to be part of their state AND those people must not just be relocated to other settlements.
3. Israel must put forth to Arab League vote a massive deal which will give nearly all of WB back with some form of autonomous control over the Mosques in Jerusalem, the last sliver of Lebanon, and Golan Heights to Syria.
4. Along with that a statement that Israel will not accept Right of Return, however, it will pay some massive detailed amount of $$$$ and use its own contractors/IDF to begin rebuilding Palestinian infrastructure and housing for he millions of refugees.

Sure, right off the bat you will see those how protest and outright deny it, etc. But, it is a huge starting point that is like 80% of what Arabs have been asking. In all reality the only part they may actually squawk over in private discussions with Israel would be Jerusalem. (public and private talks with Arabs/Israelis are completely different) However, I'm sure that could be resolved as well.

Once these real changes started to unfold, i.e. removal of settlements ect, you will see a noticeable decline in Hamas military support. Especially if PA is maneuvering correctly to ensure it gets all of the glory for Israel's actions. That too, could also be orchestrated by Israeli actions and public speeches.

Above all else, Palestinians will need to see real change on the ground. They will need to see blockages, checkpoints, etc opened up. Settlers removed. Initial open cooperation in rebuilding sea and airports. Gestures like that won't harm Israel's security in case Hamas or others start attacking. But, they will prove without a question of Israel's intent to build a new Palestine.

I started my Gaza thread. It was high jacked by superchunk, comrade and some other dude. Its a tragedy that it turns into some kind of religious/race thing when really its about not killing people

Israel bombed a School today.

Israel's worst casuality was self inflicted today, 3 dead.

My opinion, US should stay the frig out of UN business (ie not veto) when a decision by them is clearly in the best interests of any and all civilians on the ground.

Secondly, impeach Bush

Added.

Normally, I'd be the last person to do this. But...

/facepalm