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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Will Microsoft target Nintendo in the next generation?

Onimusha12 said:

I'm curious as to how anything I've said suggests any of the console companies exist in a vacuum. Perhaps you're just borrowing terminologies that sound good rather than actually fit the situation? You are entitled to think whatever you like, but as I've already pointed out you don't have adequate logic to back your claims or ideologies, just vague and dodgey "well, anything could happen" deferments to any real substance.

 

 

Exactly.

For example, we can say with an almost absolute level of certainty that Napoleon's empire would have lasted much longer had he not invaded Russia. We can say that Nazi Germany would never have become such a threat had France and England taken a more assertive and agressive stance towards Hitler instead of trying to appease him. We can look at the facts and see that there is substantial evidence to support this.

The same goes for this console generation. The overengineered design of the PS3 is what caused it to be so expensive and lose market share. Had the Blu-Ray drive and cell processor been yanked, the PS3 could have launched at a price of $300, the Euro launch would not have been delayed, and the state of the economy would not have hurt it so much this holiday season.

 

 

 

 

 

 



 

Consoles owned: Saturn, Dreamcast, PS1, PS2, PSP, DS, PS3

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If MS tries to challenge Nintendo they'll be crushed



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

Squilliam said:
Lord N said:
Squilliam said:
"Microsoft doesn't pose a real threat"

To be honest if you consider the number of first party studios to pay for, keeping the PS3 at a low marketshare and severely diminishing their console sales through competition, Microsoft could cause SCE to self destruct.

See if most HD publishers are losing money then Sony first party studios must be losing money hand over fist considering they can only sell to 40% of the HD console userbase. That $6 saved from console owner royalties is a pittance next to being able to address 100% of the HD console userbase.

 

First and second party titles always bring in more money than third party titles. This is why Nintendo was fine for the last two generations, and it's why the Gamecube was the only console to turn a consistent profit all throughout last generation. It's also the reason why MS has lost so much money. Aside from Halo, their first and second party sales aren't anything to write home about.

Sony's first party may not be up to par with Nintendo's, but it's a hell of a lot stronger than what MS has to offer. If 360 exclusive third-party titles started to go multi-platform and/or change hands, then MS would be in a lot more trouble than Sony is right now.

Microsofts 1st party efforts up until now have vastly exceeded the impact of Sonys 1st party games.

Halo 3... The Killzone 2 + RFOM 1/2 killer.

 

 

Take away Halo and what does it have? That's right, a whole lot of nothing, which is why it's the only franchise you can list.

On the other hand, Sony would still have the aforementioned RFOM and Killzone in addition to Uncharted, Ratchet & Clank, God Of War, SOCOM, Gran Turismo, Little Big Planet, I could go on and on, but I'm sure you get the idea. Sony owns MS's internal talent in number of studios alone.

 

 



 

Consoles owned: Saturn, Dreamcast, PS1, PS2, PSP, DS, PS3

@Lord N

Don´t forget Team Ico as well :)



Lord N said:

 

Take away Halo and what does it have? That's right, a whole lot of nothing, which is why it's the only franchise you can list.

On the other hand, Sony would still have the aforementioned RFOM and Killzone in addition to Uncharted, Ratchet & Clank, God Of War, SOCOM, Gran Turismo, Little Big Planet, I could go on and on, but I'm sure you get the idea. Sony owns MS's internal talent in number of studios alone.

 

 

 

lol sony fanboy.



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Lord N said:
Squilliam said:
Lord N said:
Squilliam said:
"Microsoft doesn't pose a real threat"

To be honest if you consider the number of first party studios to pay for, keeping the PS3 at a low marketshare and severely diminishing their console sales through competition, Microsoft could cause SCE to self destruct.

See if most HD publishers are losing money then Sony first party studios must be losing money hand over fist considering they can only sell to 40% of the HD console userbase. That $6 saved from console owner royalties is a pittance next to being able to address 100% of the HD console userbase.

 

First and second party titles always bring in more money than third party titles. This is why Nintendo was fine for the last two generations, and it's why the Gamecube was the only console to turn a consistent profit all throughout last generation. It's also the reason why MS has lost so much money. Aside from Halo, their first and second party sales aren't anything to write home about.

Sony's first party may not be up to par with Nintendo's, but it's a hell of a lot stronger than what MS has to offer. If 360 exclusive third-party titles started to go multi-platform and/or change hands, then MS would be in a lot more trouble than Sony is right now.

Microsofts 1st party efforts up until now have vastly exceeded the impact of Sonys 1st party games.

Halo 3... The Killzone 2 + RFOM 1/2 killer.

 

 

Take away Halo and what does it have? That's right, a whole lot of nothing, which is why it's the only franchise you can list.

On the other hand, Sony would still have the aforementioned RFOM and Killzone in addition to Uncharted, Ratchet & Clank, God Of War, SOCOM, Gran Turismo, Little Big Planet, I could go on and on, but I'm sure you get the idea. Sony owns MS's internal talent in number of studios alone.

 

 

That one studio and I.P alone is worth more than half of Sony's first and second party efforts to date. Middling games are irrelevent, they don't move consoles and they don't make at all that much money for their publisher if they don't lose money themselves.

 

 



Tease.

Avinash_Tyagi said:
If MS tries to challenge Nintendo they'll be crushed

 

LOL... don't get me wrong, I really admire what Nintendo has done this generation as well.  They truly are beastly.  But no one is indestructable.  Nintendo as laid plenty of eggs as well (i.e., N64) so they aren't untouchable.  Not that MS is either... but my point is that no one is untouchable, and no company can expect victory just of because who they are.



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Squilliam said:
heruamon said:
I'm not sure they will, since that leaves you open to the other guy. M$ went after sony and nintendo snuck past them, and are now out of reach, so imho, the wii went after a ideal, and that led to success.

The Wii didn't sneak past anything. That gunman walked in the front door and blew everyone else away. Nintendo had this generation won before they fired their first shot. It was Sony and Microsoft who brought the knives, but Nintendo changed the rules and brought the gun to a knife fight.

Damn well put. Iwata kept telling everybody exactly what they were doing but everyone knew poor little Nintendo was "Game Over" and treated it all as a big joke, funny name, no HD, they've gotta be kidding.

Even when they revealed the Wiimote everybody still took it as a joke. Go back and read the magazines of the day if you want a good insight into hubris and blindness. 

Interestingly, one Sony executive did "get it". He apparently picked up the Wiimote and actually blurted out to a reporter something like, "if they actually have this little son of a bitch working, they just ate our lunch!"

As Squilliam says, it was already over, the people that had just been shot through the heart just didn't realize it for a few more months.

What can Sony and Microsoft do now against Nintendo who is making money like they printed it. Whose stock is still at 300% over launch day, even after the crash, Is worth more (capitalization) than Sony. And only has a payroll of < 5,000 workers to carry instead of Sony's 160,0000 and the Microsoft Army. Nintendo is spending money on R&D at the rate 5-8 billion yen/yr and have an uncommited  cash reserve of  something between 12 -20 Billion US$.

In comparison Sony is essentially broke and in survival mode and MS probably has  more cash BUT not that they will sink into video games.

If MS moves aggresively towards casual they will just drive the hardcore back to Sony. I doubt that MS has the first clue how to begin to compete with a lean, innovative fast moving company that can completely reinvent itself as required.

It's hard  to imagine two culture's more opposite than Iwata's "keep it simple, make it reliable" and the "push it out the door now"philosophy that lead directly to RRD.



Squilliam said:
Onimusha12 said:
Squilliam said:
Because no console company exists in a vacuum. Their actions also effect the companies and people around them. When you contrive a different set of circumstances surrounding known events it always has unexpected consequences. These unexpected consequences may be for the better or worse and you simply don't know because once you change things you're heading into unfamiliar territory. Therefore saying that if they did X instead of Y, things would definately be better is untrue.

I'm curious as to how anything I've said suggests any of the console companies exist in a vacuum. Perhaps you're just borrowing terminologies that sound good rather than actually fit the situation? You are entitled to think whatever you like, but as I've already pointed out you don't have adequate logic to back your claims or ideologies, just vague and dodgey "well, anything could happen" deferments to any real substance.

 

You cannot predict the future. -> Established fact.

Butterfly effect -> "Small variations of the initial condition of a dynamical system may produce large variations in the long term behavior of the system"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect

Therefore you cannot say "Had Sony done this or that they would have been X"

 

 

 

What you say is true for systems with chaotic attractors. Is gaming market such a system? Or not? Or perhaps is it a sum of different functions of which maybe some are chaotic, but that have only a partial influence on the whole, adding variance but up to a certain degree? As amongst the few things we know, there is that "real" economy (not the speculative one) has a quite slow growth, in the best years it grew in the order of tens percent, so we can say that also the possible chaotic components have BIBO stability, the potential market is limited with limited economic resources.

 



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TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


Grampy said:
Squilliam said:

The Wii didn't sneak past anything. That gunman walked in the front door and blew everyone else away. Nintendo had this generation won before they fired their first shot. It was Sony and Microsoft who brought the knives, but Nintendo changed the rules and brought the gun to a knife fight.

Damn well put. Iwata kept telling everybody exactly what they were doing but everyone knew poor little Nintendo was "Game Over" and treated it all as a big joke, funny name, no HD, they've gotta be kidding.

Even when they revealed the Wiimote everybody still took it as a joke. Go back and read the magazines of the day if you want a good insight into hubris and blindness. 

Interestingly, one Sony executive did "get it". He apparently picked up the Wiimote and actually blurted out to a reporter something like, "if they actually have this little son of a bitch working, they just ate our lunch!"

As Squilliam says, it was already over, the people that had just been shot through the heart just didn't realize it for a few more months.

What can Sony and Microsoft do now against Nintendo who is making money like they printed it. Whose stock is still at 300% over launch day, even after the crash, Is worth more (capitalization) than Sony. And only has a payroll of < 5,000 workers to carry instead of Sony's 160,0000 and the Microsoft Army. Nintendo is spending money on R&D at the rate 5-8 billion yen/yr and have an uncommited  cash reserve of  something between 12 -20 Billion US$.

In comparison Sony is essentially broke and in survival mode and MS probably has  more cash BUT not that they will sink into video games.

If MS moves aggresively towards casual they will just drive the hardcore back to Sony. I doubt that MS has the first clue how to begin to compete with a lean, innovative fast moving company that can completely reinvent itself as required.

It's hard  to imagine two culture's more opposite than Iwata's "keep it simple, make it reliable" and the "push it out the door now"philosophy that lead directly to RRD.

One has to assume at this point that if all else remains equal the Wii and the Next Wii will remain on top. Next up you'll have 2 console makers who have to decide whether they want to out-Wii Nintendo or seek a profitable niche. Since Nintendo will be practically unstoppable in a status quo situation, the only stable position in the console market is to unseat Nintendo from total domination. Microsoft can however buy $$$ themselves enough time to remain viable, Sony however cannot. 

I doubt there will be any stable niches left once Nintendo gets around to the next generation, the weaknesses that are present now kept the HD consoles in the game by a large part with sheer luck. I believe the next generation we will see a divergent strategy between the different players. The "Me too" approach has proved to be a failure too many times in the past for it to be considered viable now.

Of the two, between Microsoft and Sony - only one has invested R+D dollars into fields which may bear any relevance in besting or justifying co-existance with Nintendo and that is Microsoft. You can see with their surface computer and their smaller Iphone applications that they are infact world leaders in many forms of interface development inspite of what you may hate about Windows. Whether they actually apply any of this is another question entirely unfortunately.

Microsoft from what I understand of them will probably move in two key directions in the next generation. The first and most obvious is onwards and upwards, they know Nintendo won't sell a console for a loss and Sony cannot likely follow suit even if they want to. Its a strong position to be in only if you're the only one doing it, otherwise it turns into a pissing contest and you and them both lose most of the time.

The second will likely be going beyond gaming, turning the console into a useful appliance is where Microsofts strengths lie. They cannot be sure to beat Nintendo on gaming, but they can best them in making their console useful. To make it useful, they have to make it usable for average people. The question is really how, what technologies will they leverage? I don't expect them to make a better interface than Nintendo, they can play that Windows card they've had in their pocket all this time.

P.S Where did you get that figure for R+D @ $5 Billion? I don't see how they can spend $1,000,000 per employee!

 

 



Tease.