By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Dragon Qust 10: The Snowball Effect

Smashchu2 said:
Squilliam said:
Why would one game for an area of the world where home consoles are struggling overall effect the big picture at all that much?

Besides this, the Wii is NOT the PS2. Will never be like the PS2. It will not attract the most talented 3rd party developers, not now and not 2 years into the future. The platforms they are working on now will likely be the platforms they will be working on at the end of the generation, it doesn't make sense to retool for a different platform halfway through when they have established their tools, systems and franchises.

Why would one game for an area of the world where home consoles are struggling overall effect the big picture at all that much?

Well, wasn't that the whole point of the post? The idea is it is support to make the system a haven for JRPGs and then move up from there. Many people have mentioned that the Japanese have already began supporting the Wii, but it is this game that will let it all tumble into the Wii. 

The thing is the Wii should be the PS2. It should attract the most talented 3rd party developers. It does make sence to retool for a different platform halfway through when they have established their tools, systems and franchises.The reason is becuase Nintendop does not need 3rd parties, they need them. The industry and the drones have all beleive the 3rd parties as the controlling factor, yet everytime they are wrong. But.....they continue to think this way. Too many developers are going under or struggling. They continue to beleive this model is true and ignore the Wii. The reason why I have made the mention of this so often is becuase this is what the industry needs to do. They have to put their money where there mouth is. The games fail becuase they don't make them top priority. If they tried to make a game like Nintendo did, then they might succeed.

 

There are only two significant JRPG series in the west on home consoles. One is Final Fantasy and that is already appearing on the Xbox 360 and PS3 and the other is Kingdom Hearts, status unknown. Dragon Quest isn't big enough to effect anything outside of Japan. Inside Japan the Wii has things wrapped up already so its not like DQX is going to effect much change when that change has already happened.

Remember the N64/GC? Yes third parties are important. Third party publishers understand the industry a lot better than you do, remember it is their day job. If a third party doesn't advertise a game on the Wii, its not because they want it to fail, its not because they forgot about it, its because to do so either would be ineffective or would not help their achieve their goals for a game.

The third party publishers aren't ignoring the Wii, you probably don't count their efforts as support. You probably only consider "support" to be games that you personally enjoy or are interested in. In any case if they aren't all rushing to prostrate themselves before Nintendo to offer 3rd party support its because they believe there is good reason not to. They have access to far more marketing data than you so its possible that they know whats best for themselves better than you?

 



Tease.

Around the Network

Dragon Quest can help change the perception of Japanese software companies on the fence.

Regardless of what some people like to think/say, they still represent a large segment of the industry. (It is also correct that there are more people in other places doing games.)

Anything that causes the Wii to be taken "more seriously" is important. DQ 8 sold 1M outside of Japan -- so it is nothing to sneeze at as far as sales potential. (And the North American sales for the spin-off on the Wii were 50% of the Japanese sales, again not bad -- European numbers are not available).

Thus, overall this is significant -- though probably not as seismic as some are making it out to be.

Mike from Morgantown



      


I am Mario.


I like to jump around, and would lead a fairly serene and aimless existence if it weren't for my friends always getting into trouble. I love to help out, even when it puts me at risk. I seem to make friends with people who just can't stay out of trouble.

Wii Friend Code: 1624 6601 1126 1492

NNID: Mike_INTV

Smashchu2 said:
jammy2211 said:

The 3rd parties want Sony and Microsoft to win, not Nintend. Sadly, they can't control it. Like many have said, the treand is already starting. They can not help the HD Bros. They will support the Wii or be left in the dust. This is why many development studios have been failing.

 

 

Would you say  "they wanted SONY and MS to win" or "they projected SONY and MS to win"?

I think it's the latter, and expect we will see the effects of the changed winds in 2009 as more publishers worldwide move to make money on the larger less risky platform.

Any sensible publisher couldn't give a rat's ass the format their content is on.



Squilliam said:
Why would one game for an area of the world where home consoles are struggling overall effect the big picture at all that much?

Besides this, the Wii is NOT the PS2. Will never be like the PS2. It will not attract the most talented 3rd party developers, not now and not 2 years into the future. The platforms they are working on now will likely be the platforms they will be working on at the end of the generation, it doesn't make sense to retool for a different platform halfway through when they have established their tools, systems and franchises.

Increasing revenue has nothing to do with using their established tools.  I don't see how your argument holds anything, especially in the light of lowered development costs for the Wii.

One could see finishing a current project before redeploying (and aren't cancelled projects/dev teams all the rage nowadays?), before moving on to the greener platform.

 



montrealsoon said:
Smashchu2 said:
jammy2211 said:

The 3rd parties want Sony and Microsoft to win, not Nintend. Sadly, they can't control it. Like many have said, the treand is already starting. They can not help the HD Bros. They will support the Wii or be left in the dust. This is why many development studios have been failing.

 

 

Would you say "they wanted SONY and MS to win" or "they projected SONY and MS to win".

I think it's the latter, and expct we will see the effects of the changd winds in 2009 as more publishers worldwide move to make money on the larger less risky platform.

Any sensible publisher couldn't give a rat's ass the format their content is on.

You know i think it was nothing to do with commercial agreements otherwise PS360 would have locked up more exclusives for each other. It was just some goddamned retarded mentallly defective attitude that they would only make the very best technological and graphic powerhouses on the fastest most powerfull systems.

They were all in bed together, the journalists, the finance analysts, the designers, the publishers. All except the customers ,who saw their soul less show coming from miles away.



“When we make some new announcement and if there is no positive initial reaction from the market, I try to think of it as a good sign because that can be interpreted as people reacting to something groundbreaking. ...if the employees were always minding themselves to do whatever the market is requiring at any moment, and if they were always focusing on something we can sell right now for the short term, it would be very limiting. We are trying to think outside the box.” - Satoru Iwata - This is why corporate multinationals will never truly understand, or risk doing, what Nintendo does.

Around the Network

"They were all in bed together, the journalists, the finance analysts, the designers, the publishers. All except the customers ,who saw their soul less show coming from miles away."

It was also the belief they could just shove HD, and if Nintendo wasn't going along, they saw them as irrelevant.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

My prediction:

GDC09 - Original poster and some others will say: "Wait until E3!"

E309 - Original poster and some others will say: "Wait until Leipzig Games Convention!"

LGC09 - Original poster and some others will say: "Wait until Tokyo Game Show!"

TGS09 - Some big games are announced for the Wii that likely won't even make it into the top 10 in sales in the West in 2010 or 2011 but some people will proclaim it's all over the for 360 and PS3.

Déjà Vu anyone?



montrealsoon said:
Squilliam said:
Why would one game for an area of the world where home consoles are struggling overall effect the big picture at all that much?

Besides this, the Wii is NOT the PS2. Will never be like the PS2. It will not attract the most talented 3rd party developers, not now and not 2 years into the future. The platforms they are working on now will likely be the platforms they will be working on at the end of the generation, it doesn't make sense to retool for a different platform halfway through when they have established their tools, systems and franchises.

Increasing revenue has nothing to do with using their established tools.  I don't see how your argument holds anything, especially in the light of lowered development costs for the Wii.

One could see finishing a current project before redeploying (and aren't cancelled projects/dev teams all the rage nowadays?), before moving on to the greener platform.

 

There are ~30+ Individual million seller franchises on the Xbox 360 that are third party. To make a sequel to one of these games is probably a safer investment than the Wii at this point. Thats a significant portion of the best development talent which has already found success on the platform. Its a risk at this point to break apart the successful teams (30 developers vs 90 say HD vs Wii) especially considering in 3 years time the next generation will be upon us and they will need teams that size anyway for all consoles, even Nintendo's. Furthermore the development times and expenses are dropping rapidly, 36 months becomes 30 and 30 becomes 24 as the generation progresses.

 



Tease.

jammy2211 said:
Smashchu2 said:
jammy2211 said:
Bahahaha, the way you made it sound so routine and simple was funny.

But yeah, the one big huge flaw with your argument for me, is that you think the RPG genre is still anywhere near as relevent as it used to be, or that Japanese developers still focus mainly on the Japanese market. At the moment it still makes more sense for most RPG's to be on the DS or PSP, as they are now where the Japanese market holds its strength.

Japan's developers will obviously be putting more resources into the Wii but the way you made it sound... no chance, especially with the way nearly every third party game has sold on the console thus far in Japan minus a few established franchises.

I think the real trend in Japan is how they're now focusing more and more on the Western markets - the first and best signs were Capcom producing software like Dead Rising, Lost Planet, Dark Void, Bionic Commando. Konami and SEGA are both heading more into a western lead developement, even Square Enix are trying as they realise that's where the biggest market is going to be.

Dq10 really doesn't change anything. Publishers will support Wii cause they can make money on it, they'll support PS360 cause they can make money on them.


I'd say a much more reasonable argument is RPG's which are tailered to just the Japan market should head to Wii, but for a company like Square Enix who want to get a big piece of the American / European market, they need to keep supporting the PS360 and build on the inevitable success of FFXIII.

It's not a matter of my argument is flawed, but the fact you misjudge how everything works.

You say RPG aren't as importaint, I say you are dead wrong. What do you think the DS has been for? What do you think the PS2 was for. RPGs are a driving franchise in the business becuase they do well across boarders. FPSs are not becuase they sell in the western countries and can not break into the Japanese market. FF and DFQ were always good games to have as they are killer apps.

The problem with YOUR arguement is you eat up the Industry wisdon (an oxymoron at best). Take a look at the italics. It's obvious you didn't comprehend anything I wrote. Why else did I write "snowball". Why do you think I made mention of the movement to the Wii? Why? Becuase DQ will make Japanese developers more to the Wii DURR. You did not focus on the fact that I already mentioned what you said I was wrong about, a flaw in your argument.

Now look at the bold. It's obviouse you don't understand the business or business in general. It's not about making monye. It's about making more money. Even if developers can make money on the 360/PS3, it is more viable to make a Wii game. It's cheaper to developer for and has a larger install base. It's the obvious choice. "Oh, but 3rd parties don't sell on the Wii." Yeah, becuase no one is putting their resources into them. The 3rd parties want Sony and Microsoft to win, not Nintend. Sadly, they can't control it. Like many have said, the treand is already starting. They can not help the HD Bros. They will support the Wii or be left in the dust. This is why many development studios have been failing.

 

 RPG's arn't as relevent as they once were, all of Square-Enix's major franchise are selling less in Japan and Western markets (Except Dragon Quest sells more on Japan, although we've not really got solid figures for those before VIII). RPG's are not a 'driving franchise' anymore, shooters and western type games see far more sales now, I seriously don't see how you think RPG's are more relevent then FPS's. Just look at the sales of any RPG game other then FF and Dragon Quest... (especially outside of Japan).

DQ will make more RPG's on Wii and whatnot, but I was more just laughing at this idea that the west would follow. That aside, I still don't think the Wii is going to be the RPG behemoth of the past as I don't think sales will be those that the PS2 made. DS and PSP, the handheld market in Japan, is where the whole of the Japan market seems to have headed. Wii is racking up high sales but the software that's sold on it thus far isn't really RPG's. It really makes more sense for the RPG's to keep heading to DS and PSP, surely?

 The question is how do publishers make the most money, and is the only supporting the Wii in the dramatic way you try to make out honestly going to result in the best returns. The western developers certainly wouldn't benefit from abandoning the PS360 as they all have alot of high selling franchises, whereas the Japanese developers seem more and more focused on getting a piece of the western market for themselves.

 Every publisher and studio is in a different position and whether supporting the HD consoles, Wii, handhelds or a multiplatform statregy depends on their situation. Not all studios will benefit from developing just for the Wii, not all publishers will benefit from abandoning the PS360, you're simplifying things too much.

 And I think the reason most PS360 people didn't care about the DQX announcement, is because both consoles have pretty much given up on the JApanese market anyway, and most don't care, because it's no longer the important and relevent hub of video games it was a decade ago.

I see the Pokemon D/P sales and Pokemon in the west has sold more than any FPS in any console(not PC).

 



Words Of Wisdom said:
I think most of us realize that DQ10 isn't a real "killer app."

This is just another "The Wii will get serious 3rd party support when XYZ comes/happens" thread.

 

 If it was on the PS3 you would be praising it as Japan savior no. 67

THE



End of 2009 Predictions (Set, January 1st 2009)

Wii- 72 million   3rd Year Peak, better slate of releases

360- 37 million   Should trend down slightly after 3rd year peak

PS3- 29 million  Sales should pick up next year, 3rd year peak and price cut