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where are the Japanese RPGs for PS3?

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bbsin said:
Soriku said:
@bbsin

I'll answer to #2 of your answers.

See my post above.

Oh, and I like how you can say "no one knows how well the games will turn out, because no one has played them yet" If that's the case for Wii JRPGs...the same goes for SO4, FF XIII, etc.

 

No shit, genius. You just proved my point. But I'm not the one going balls out to claim that "x" console is bar-none the "definitive one" am I? 

Don't try to turn his crap against me like I'm the cocky one.

And as a response to your reply. It's wrong.

You need a consistant stream of quaility JRPG titles AND "AAA" franchises. This includes small dev JRPGS, Mid teir and the few "AAA" titles. This also needs to be in effect for quite a considerable frame of time (AKA PS2) and have virtually no competition to be considered "definitive". You can't just go around claiming "superiority" so early in the console's life, while relying mainly on potential (isn't that a gripe people usually have with PS3 fanboys).

You do realize that, that was my entire point in the first place right?

The issue here is that you both fail to realize that it's possible to not have a "definitive genre console" at all during a generation. You assume that the competition will lose all support, and that your favorite console will only gain more support until the end of the cycle. Then, you use that as a halfassed irresponsible claim that the Wii is already the "defacto, definitive choice for the genre". Like I said, you guys got to be pretty dim to not realize the flaws and bias in your claims.

 

Now, when did I say I necessarily agreed with Claude? Don't put words in my mouth. I don't agree with Claude the Wii is the definitive JRPG console....YET. The 360 is the definitive JRPG console ATM but that'll change. The same way DQ IX opened up a gate for huge Japanese support for the DS, the same will happen since DQ X is announced. Next year, the only JRPG that will come out the ENTIRE year is SO4. That's it. Now, 2008 was great for 360 RPGs, but in the future if it isn't the case. I think that may be your point though. Also, the PS3 only has WKC and likely FF XIII in Japan only next year. Pretty big...but that doesn't proclaim the PS3 as necessarily "dominant" either. Which is your point too.

I think Claude went a bit overboard, but what he said isn't necessarily untrue if the events of DQ IX to the DS hod true for DQ X for the Wii. And the Wii is stil wiping the floor with both HD consoles in Japan as well. From here on out, you're going to see more and more JRPG support for the Wii, while the HD consoles get very little if at all since like I said before the only games releasing for them/have released for them were games announced years ago, not recently like plenty of Wii JRPGs have. It's not a matter of thinking the HD consoles will lose a lot of/all JRPG support...it's really happening. By definitive we're talking about the majority....and the Wii will have the majority.




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ClaudeLv250 said:
bbsin said:

Listen, I see that this is just going to go back and forth forever so I'm going to say my piece one last time.

1. No one is arguing against whether or not the Wii **will** or **will** not become the next dominant JRPG console. Heck, if anything, none of us knows. The only person that saying anything is you. You're going rampant over the fact that it's been picking up momemtum as of late and you're using that as a basis of it being the "definitive JRPG console".

The reason why you're wrong is because you're arrogantly touting "wii dominance" based off of what *will* be released in numbers. Yet up to now, you've been dismissing franchises such as SO, ToV, Mist Walker games, 13versus, WKC, or anything that can **Possibly** be released on any console other than the Wii. 

You'd have to be pretty dim to not realize that your point is premature and reckless. 

2. I'm using pure facts that you wish not to accept. JRPGs have never sold "great" when you throw the big hitters out of the equation. You use the word "table scraps" to define every other game, and you're basically right. 

It's going to be very likely that the Wii will not be anywhere close to the "definitive" JRPG console as the PS2 were, especially if the most popular 3rd party franchise is excluded (to this point).

Lastly... about the quality argument...

That's right, I am stating the obvious. The issue here is that you cannot accept the obvious. Do you still not see the correlation between me saying "you can't imply that the the Wii is 'the definitive JRPG console' with only upcomming titles" and the fact that "no one knows how well the games will turn out, because no one has played them yet"??? It's not hard to grasp.

Remember your initial argument. Throughout all these posts, it has slowly changed into something else. Where as mine has been restated and has been kept consistant the entire time. You're equation is clearly lopsided and flawed, and so is your definition of "definitive".

1. You keep saying that you're not arguing about the Wii's dominance, but then you throw around the PS2, and then you start prattling off the same games. The Wii is the dominant JRPG console now, and will continue to be the dominant JRPG console in the future without these games, so why do you keep bringing them up? If you say the Wii can be the dominant JRPG platform (as if it isn't already), wouldn't it be so even without the games you keep listing? I mean you keep proving my point, the Wii wins because it's getting support from more than the same two developers.

Jesus Christ. Either you don't know how to read or you're not reading at all.

So lets clear things up right now. If the Wii is the dominant JRPG console, then go ahead and throw out all the JRPs the Wii has. Go ahead. Since you seem to be confusing "now" with "later" so much, I'd like to see you argue with solid facts that actually exist.

Secondly. I bring up the fact that Wii *can* or *cannot* be the "definitive" JRPG console because I don't simply assume things. I said in the very beginning that your usage of the word "definitive" was in awful taste. The reason that the PS2 was the "definitive JRPG" console last gen wasn't only because it had JRPG support from A-AAA devs, it was because the competition was practically non-existant (or much less than what the 360/PS3 offers in comparison to the Wii). SquareEnix did not support the Xbox, nor did they care much for the Wii. This was also the same case for other devs.

TBH, I don't know how things will turn out. If you want to make a case about it, that is the base of my argument. 

2. You haven't used any facts, you've gone in circles and mostly brought up pointless things like "quality" for games that aren't out yet, and then saying "I know it's pointless, that's why I said it lol." No, that's why your argument fails lol. Everytime.

If that's what you got from my post, then I suggest you go back and read it more carefully. This is going to be the 3rd time I've said this so I hope you come out of this with some sort of understanding (which I find pretty obvious).

The whole quality argument goes hand in hand with your perception that quantity is the only thing that matters in terms of support. Where, in numerous cases, it's been proven that the public care much more about mid teir JRPGs and "AAA" high production titles than a slew of "small" titles. Let me ask you something, if the PS3 was filled with Halo rip offs and had support from many small FPS devs, would it be safe to assume that the PS3 would be the "definitive FPS console" within the 3rd year of the console's cycle? The point of the matter is that you (nor anyone else) knows whether or not this support is worth more than a grain of salt. The PS2 wasn't deemed the "JRPG king" for it's time when it first had a slew of upcomming titles on the way, it was given that title when people realized that some of those games were actually really good... AFTER they've played it. (no shit, right?)

I knew Dragon Quest X was going to get under people's skin, but I thought it was pretty obvious that the Wii was going to be the dominant JRPG console even before the support came flooding in. Japan has, and continues to be, a one console market. It doesn't mean other games won't exist on the other consoles, because they always have, but it's not going to change the Wii's position as king. There really is no reason for the Wii not to be the JRPG king when 360 is only getting checkbook RPGs and the PS3's support is nearly non-existent outside of Square Enix. This is just the way things have always been and it's clearly not changing anytime soon. 

That would be a good point if it weren't for the fact that many Japanese devs have expressed their interest in focusing the popularity of their products to the west. As far as the 360's "checkbook" JRPGs are concerned, you talk as if it's a bad thing. That checkbook of theirs netted them the ability to gain and win over JRPG fans. The PS3 on the other hand, is too early to tell whether or not it will stay at the basement of JRPG support this gen, but I still expect much more resistance than what the gamecube and xbox offered to the PS2.

 

 



bigjon said:
either stolen by MS in a futile attempt to make Japanese buy their console OR
in development for the Wii.

except for TWK

 

 

MS would've done that with DQ X then :P It just shows MS can't buy everything. Though I believe MS never bought anything to begin with...




Soriku said:
bbsin said:
Soriku said:
@bbsin

I'll answer to #2 of your answers.

See my post above.

Oh, and I like how you can say "no one knows how well the games will turn out, because no one has played them yet" If that's the case for Wii JRPGs...the same goes for SO4, FF XIII, etc.

 

No shit, genius. You just proved my point. But I'm not the one going balls out to claim that "x" console is bar-none the "definitive one" am I? 

Don't try to turn his crap against me like I'm the cocky one.

And as a response to your reply. It's wrong.

You need a consistant stream of quaility JRPG titles AND "AAA" franchises. This includes small dev JRPGS, Mid teir and the few "AAA" titles. This also needs to be in effect for quite a considerable frame of time (AKA PS2) and have virtually no competition to be considered "definitive". You can't just go around claiming "superiority" so early in the console's life, while relying mainly on potential (isn't that a gripe people usually have with PS3 fanboys).

You do realize that, that was my entire point in the first place right?

The issue here is that you both fail to realize that it's possible to not have a "definitive genre console" at all during a generation. You assume that the competition will lose all support, and that your favorite console will only gain more support until the end of the cycle. Then, you use that as a halfassed irresponsible claim that the Wii is already the "defacto, definitive choice for the genre". Like I said, you guys got to be pretty dim to not realize the flaws and bias in your claims.

 

I think Claude went a bit overboard, but what he said isn't necessarily untrue if the events of DQ IX to the DS hod true for DQ X for the Wii. And the Wii is stil wiping the floor with both HD consoles in Japan as well. From here on out, you're going to see more and more JRPG support for the Wii, while the HD consoles get very little if at all since like I said before the only games releasing for them/have released for them were games announced years ago, not recently like plenty of Wii JRPGs have. It's not a matter of thinking the HD consoles will lose a lot of/all JRPG support...it's really happening. By definitive we're talking about the majority....and the Wii will have the majority.

Look, I never ignored the fact that the Wii is indeed snuffing out the HD consoles in Japan. I never denied that it will undoubtedly draw a large amount of JRPG (both big and small) support on the Wii's side. It's logical and it's a fair point. All I'm saying is that it's far too early to crown the Wii as the "definitive" (as claude put it) console. What if WKC sells great? what is FF13 becomes a huge success both in and out of Japan? Would that not spark some dev interest on either consoles? What if Japan continues to go in a downward spiral of what it used to be and publishers look for other places to sell games? The PS3 and 360 already has had more major support than the Xbox and Gamecube had as competition to the PS2. It's not going to be the same case as last gen, there are just too many factors involved.

All in all, it's really just claude's misunderstanding of the word "definitive" that's causing this entire issue.



Rei said:
jRPG genre is not really important anymore and Sony happened to be smart enough to understand this.

 

 So true. I can picture the board meetings from a few years ago:

 

Sony Exec: You fools! People don't want Japanese RPGs anymore! They want second jobs, so they can buy our products!



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kingofwale said:
I'm a bit confused about your title, and why you choose to discount FFXIII because it's multi.

if it matters to you that much. WKC will outsell all 3 RPG you listed on xbox.


but again, don't think it really matters.

 

 Sure WKC will outsell maybe 1 if its lucky... have you seen LBP numbers lately? Besides every one forgetting all the other RPGS out for 360, all Jrpgs BTW

Blue Dragon

Lost Odyssey

Tales Of Vasperia

Eternal Sonata

Infinite Undiscovery

Enchanted Arms

The Last Remnant

Operation Darkness

Phantasy Star Universe

Final Fantasy XI - MMO but still RPGish I think :D



"Leap ignorantly to the defense of wealthy game company’s, who don't know or care about you!"

the jrpg companies are too busy making it still for ps2...the bests ones are still coming out for ps2....well maybe all finished now...and probably just started to move onto ps3 or 360....persona4 is out on ps2...which just recently came and and kicks any of ps3 and 360's jrpg's ass..



@KLucifer

Ask yourself why they're still making jRPGs for PS2? Because there're no clear winner of home console market in Japan, when and if they shift from handhelds to consoles... I don't see any variants, besides Wii.



Nice and toasty in here.



The Wii is shaping up to become the THE DEFINETIVE RPG console of this generation..

Oh shit I shouldn't have said that - guess that's a fact than can piss some people quite off..