...Man that would be like counting the damn Weather Channel on the Wii because it's downloadable even if it comes pre-installed.

Yeah, they just copy the disc image. Just like they do with dvd:s.

@Khuutra

Is weather channel a game? :O

...Wait, what in the Hell are you two talking about at this point? You managed to lose me.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/20/

It is raining in Shanghai.

Which makes the difference between downloaded and non-downloadble games being that downloadble games are present on the harddriv.

Once again.  It's a downloaded game.  Sorry you feel the need to pointlessly troll but your just looking stupid.

When is Warhawk a downloadble game?  When it first reaches consumers hands through the harddrive.  When isn't it.  When it's on a different form of physical media.

When is Hexic HD a downloadble game?  When it first reaches comsumers hands through the harddrive.  In otherwords.  Always.

Seriously, your just looking really obtuse.

Yeah this thread just needs closed...

Seriously, if a game comes on a medium it should be counted. Hd is a medium, like a dvd. If they offered a code to download a game, then it should not be counted. Just because then the game would be actually downloaded. ;)

Besides we count sales of non-games all the time

Just look at Wii Fit

Weather Channel best seller of the generation, QED

Ah. I feel for you, nightsurge. I really do. You bought the wrong console to fit your needs. Naturally, there are games that satisfy some of those needs even on the Wii, but they are more plentiful and better experiences on the PS360.

This does not, however, mean that other people have the same needs as you. It does not mean they value the same things you do. This is the important thing to remember, and it's the reason saying things like 'Wii sports is only worth $10' can blow up in your face like this.

There is a discussion on the Steam Forum about whether or not Left 4 Dead should be considered a Mod or a full game. There are lots of people thinking it should only be considered a mod because it has so little content. The weapons are few and there's no real variety. There are only 6 types of zombies to fight against. Only 5 chapters that take an hour a piece to complete. There's nothing in the full game that wasn't in the demo except versus mode and 4 1/2 chapters, and so on.

Then there's the opposite side that claims that of course it's a full game. There's been major upgrades to the engine, you can really play for hours and hours, it's definately a really polished product, and so on. I can sympathise with both sides, there IS very little content (compared to other FPS's today) but it's all very proffesionally done. Whether or not it's a mod or a full game it seems really fun to me, and thus the discussion seems slightly pointless.

This discussion is very similar to your feelings about Wii Sports, so let me tell you a little bit about the side that you're not seeing. Wii Sports has NO barriers to entry. It is simple yet fun. It never once belittles the player, or throws him/her into a situation that feels scary. It does all it possibly can to be as accessible as possible. This does mean it has to exclude some things more serious players would want, like tons of options, advanced controls and the like. In short, it cuts content to enhance the experience for everyone.

I find Wii Sports to be highly addictive. I'm still playing it with my friends every time I possibly can. The Tennis, Bowling and Baseball are all games that I really love. It's just awesomely fun, especially with a friend to play with or against. In my opinion, the options it cuts out enhances the experience more than it hampers it. It's most definatly one of the best experiences I've had this generation (Portal, the game I put above the rest, does the exact same thing btw).

I'm not saying that you're wrong in thinking Wii Sports is a bad game. You're fully entitled to this opinion. However, if you think that Wii Sports should be excluded for not being a game, you're totally missing the point. That is, the millions of people that think Wii Sports is as fun as you can have with a game. In my mind, there is no doubt that Wii Sports sell the Wii more than the Wii sell Wii Sports, but this is opinion and not fact.

As for what Nintendo needs to improve on, I would agree that they need better third party support, as I wrote in my original reply to your opening post. I would not say that Nintendo need to work on their first party support however. That is, and has been so far, more than adequate.

Not your fault, man.

If I were a third party dev trying to decide where to put my game I would absolutely ignore the sales of Wii sports and Wii Play because sales of a game that are included with a controller, or the console itself are not indicative of the type of sales I can expect for my product.  Similarly the majority of Forza sales would be discounted, but most x360 bundles are not MS games so the dev still gets paid.  Of course there's no guarantee that your game will be bundled so I wouldn't count on that, and toss out those sales too.  Throwing out a year though would never make sense to do, again, from a dev perspective.