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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Third parties pull a fast one and blame Nintendo for their own crappy games

vdoesntforgive on 23 November 2008
Pristine20 said:

 

Thats the problem with many wii fans. Many of you think that 3rd parties just don't wan't to support the wii which doesn't make any sense.  How can they just not wan't to support the #1 console which also happens to be cheap to develop for? Whats a fact is that the wii is vastly different from any console that has released before it both in hardware, software (think wii fit) and audience (lots of girls now) so the typical game developer doesn't know how to succeed on the platform. Nintendo knew what they were doing before releasing the console, unfortunately, no one else does. This is the truth.

 

Or...

OR, they just don't agree with the direction Nintendo are taking things? As many vocal developers have pointed out, THATS a fact, not my opinion.

 

But yeah, I can't say with 100% certainty why alot of them don't support the wii. But your argument would hold alot more weight if the gamecube was supported, though.

 

And stop calling me a wii fan/boy please. I own all three consoles and both handhelds, the 360 gets the bulk of my play time. I think the wii is a piece of shit (or has been since spring, atleast) BECAUSE of third parties mostly.

 

Get it?



 

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Pristine20 on 23 November 2008
11ht11 said:
its the fact that devs are supporting the 360 not the ps3

ok man, whatever floats your boat.

 



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

Pristine20 on 23 November 2008
noname2200 said:
Pristine20 said:
vdoesntforgive said:
Switch "HOW" with "WANT", and I will agree.
Regardless, by the end of this generation, some of them will HAVE to, EA being one that has already started.

Thats the problem with many wii fans. Many of you think that 3rd parties just don't wan't to support the wii which doesn't make any sense.  How can they just not wan't to support the #1 console which also happens to be cheap to develop for? Whats a fact is that the wii is vastly different from any console that has released before it both in hardware, software (think wii fit) and audience (lots of girls now) so the typical game developer doesn't know how to succeed on the platform. Nintendo knew what they were doing before releasing the console, unfortunately, no one else does. This is the truth.

Actually, there is a second explanation which many have touted. From the article posted:

"I think most game creators got into the industry in the hopes of writing the next Doom or Halo or Command & Conquer," writes Victor Godinez, "and not the next Hannah Montana video game adaptation. So the best game makers gravitate to the consoles that seem to specialize in the kinds of games they like."

...The Wii is the least powerful of the three current consoles, and you simply cannot easily duplicate a high-end Xbox 360 or PS3 game on the Wii.

In other words, some developers like to make the games they want to play. Egotistical and foolish, perhaps, but plausible. And while it makes zero business sense, there are many times when businessmen did not make wise business decisions. The whole "disruption" thing exists for a very, very good reason, and the Wii is not the first example of this principle at work.

Still, I'm personally willing to accept incompetence rather than malice when the former is a possible explanation.

 

It also makes a lot of sense though. It won't be easy to make a game you won't like to play regardless of your good intentions. Perhaps this is why the majority of wii titles from 3rd parties suck?

 



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

11ht11 on 23 November 2008

so why did the ps3 lose its biggest exclusives like FF13?



noname2200 on 23 November 2008
Pristine20 said:
noname2200 said:
Pristine20 said:
vdoesntforgive said:

It also makes a lot of sense though. It won't be easy to make a game you won't like to play regardless of your good intentions. Perhaps this is why the majority of wii titles from 3rd parties suck?

It may explain, but it doesn't excuse (and I know you're not excusing, I'm just making a general point). Developers need to remember that they're here to please us, not themselves. To use a personal example, it doesn't matter if I think my client's asking for more than he deserves; he's my client, and I'm here to serve him to the best of my abilities, my personal feelings be damned.

 



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Pristine20 on 23 November 2008
vdoesntforgive said:
Pristine20 said:

 

Thats the problem with many wii fans. Many of you think that 3rd parties just don't wan't to support the wii which doesn't make any sense.  How can they just not wan't to support the #1 console which also happens to be cheap to develop for? Whats a fact is that the wii is vastly different from any console that has released before it both in hardware, software (think wii fit) and audience (lots of girls now) so the typical game developer doesn't know how to succeed on the platform. Nintendo knew what they were doing before releasing the console, unfortunately, no one else does. This is the truth.

 

Or...

OR, they just don't agree with the direction Nintendo are taking things? As many vocal developers have pointed out, THATS a fact, not my opinion.

 

But yeah, I can't say with 100% certainty why alot of them don't support the wii. But your argument would hold alot more weight if the gamecube was supported, though.

 

And stop calling me a wii fan/boy please. I own all three consoles and both handhelds, the 360 gets the bulk of my play time. I think the wii is a piece of shit (or has been since spring, atleast) BECAUSE of third parties mostly.

 

Get it?

Sorry for caling you a fan.

As noname pointed out, capcom said that many devs come into the industry to make the next doom or halo. The wii is not congruent with their state of mind.

As for the GC, back then the #1 console "made sense" (was the type of thing they were used to) so the supported stayed with #1. Like I've said over and over, it's much easier to franchise than innovate. The wii requires innovation. The good old franchises work well on ps360. Many games that seem like new IPs e.g saint's row are still just franchises (think GTA).

Something like LBP is genuine to some extent and probably would sell millions on wii but unfortunately, it is published by sony. Perhaps nintendo should buy more studios and show them the way?

 



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

The Ghost of RubangB on 23 November 2008
DTG said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
Esa-Petteri said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
Wow, this jackass doesn't get it either. I don't want games ported up from the PS2, but at the same time (what this guy doesn't get), I don't want games ported down from the PS360. I want original games tailored to the Wii's advantages and disadvantages. When that happens, those games do really well.

 

 

Hasn't that happened already? Mario&sonic,carnival games,game party,RRR? I haven't played all of those games, but I think they do use wiimotes advantages. Not to mention that they have been great successes so they must have been "tailored" to wii.

Yes it has happened already (I didn't claim it hadn't), and many of those games have sold well.

Just like No More Heroes sold well.  And many other 3rd party games.  Those are the 3rd parties that get it.  They make new unique games tailored to the Wii.  When companies give the Wii sloppy ports, they don't sell well.  Those companies should shut up and learn how to make good games.  It is my hope that they actually don't shut up and learn how to make good games, and they simply go out of business and leave us all alone.  The industry will be better, and leave room for better companies with new and unique ideas.

Now which one of those games has an amazing storyline? The problem with all well selling wii games is that the narratives suck and the platform just doesn't seem to support third party's that might want to create a game backed purely by an enticing narrative disregarding the wii's gameplay strength or weaknessess. Unless story heavy games can survive on the wii it will never be taken seriously.

Amazing storyline?  Of course Nintendo hardware could never handle a storyline as groundbreaking and world-changing as MGS4.  The story alone was so deep the Cell could barely handle it.  Narratives require real horsepower.  That's why I only read books on my PS3 internet browser.



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Pristine20 on 23 November 2008
11ht11 said:
so why did the ps3 lose its biggest exclusives like FF13?

 

I don't know why I'm replying your posts. One question: Is FF13 coming to ps3 or not?

We're not arguing about exclusives. We're talking about quality wii 3rd party offerings. You're late to the party.

Perhaps you felt the need point that out because I'm obviously a ps3 only gamer as stated in my sig. However, I really don't care that ff13 is coming to 360 as I can understand why. I get to play it if I want either way as with 90% of 3rd party titles



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

11ht11 on 23 November 2008

i dont even know why i replied to your post >_>, well im done arguing good day ma'am



Pristine20 on 23 November 2008
noname2200 said:
Pristine20 said:
noname2200 said:
Pristine20 said:
vdoesntforgive said:

It also makes a lot of sense though. It won't be easy to make a game you won't like to play regardless of your good intentions. Perhaps this is why the majority of wii titles from 3rd parties suck?

It may explain, but it doesn't excuse (and I know you're not excusing, I'm just making a general point). Developers need to remember that they're here to please us, not themselves. To use a personal example, it doesn't matter if I think my client's asking for more than he deserves; he's my client, and I'm here to serve him to the best of my abilities, my personal feelings be damned.

 

 

It's not an excuse but most Humans are lazy (devs included). Being an artist is also a very difficult thing. I don't know of any artist that doesn't like their own work. This is why most devs keep having trouble with the wii. It's bad that they're having trouble doing their job but we really should cut them some slack. I prefer using a ps3 for gaming and honestly, if I was a developer, I wouldn't know what to release on wii either.



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler