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Forums - Sony Discussion - the cost of the ps3

Nonquihote said:
FishyJoe said:
That's the way silicon is provided from the manufacturer.

its got something to do with boobs ?





 

 

 



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You'd think the silicon companies could make some rectangles...



LEFT4DEAD411.COM
Bet with disolitude: Left4Dead will have a higher Metacritic rating than Project Origin, 3 months after the second game's release.  (hasn't been 3 months but it looks like I won :-p )

Nonquihote said:
FishyJoe said:
That's the way silicon is provided from the manufacturer.

 its got something to do with boobs ?


Lmao!!!



 

mM
Dolla Dolla said:

This is a wafer of chips. They produce the Cell and RSX chips like this. Let's say, for shits and giggles, that at 90nm, they can make 100 Cell chips on one wafer, and it costs them $10,000 for the entire wafer. When they switch to 65nm, they'll be able to produce twice as many chips on one wafer. So, instead of making 100 90nm chips, they can make 200 65nm chips, and it'll still cost them only $10,000 bucks. So, they pretty much save 50% on that one component by switching to 65nm.

Also, to accomodate the change, they must also change the motherboard of the PS3. A smaller chip uses less power, takes up less space, and requires less resistors, so when they remake the motherboard, it has less parts and costs less to make. So they save more money on the motherboard, too. This is why the slimline PS2 is so small, they are currently running on 45nm processors.


 The first part essentially true, although the savings is far less than 50%. Chip prices depend on several processing steps, only one of which is waver costs. If you want 1M chips, you have to etch, bond, saw and test each chip on the waver until you reach your 1M goal. You need less wavers, but the rest of the costs stay the same.

The second part may or may not be correct. The Mainboard does not need to be changed as the Cell/RSX (or any chip in your PC) reside on chip carriers, so the chip/carrier interface will be different but not the carrier/mainboard interface.

I'd say you save around 30% in costs. The biggest cost saving factor in the industry has always been preordering product long before it is actually needed. 



BenKenobi88 said:
I don't understand anything about chips...but why is it a circle?

google "czochralski" to find the answer to your question. It is the method applied here to produce raw crystals from which the wavers are sawn. 



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BenKenobi88 said:
I don't understand anything about chips...but why is it a circle?

 Because of the process they have to follow to obtain the silicon in pure state. Long story short, they take the silicon from the mines, make a couple of chemical reactions to remove the other metals present in smaller quantities, then the silicon is molten and extracted very slowly, starting with a crystal configuration patern and turning it around continually. They eventually get a perfect cilinder. Then they cut it with a diamond saw, making identical circular sections. 

...

 Yes, I study Electronical Engineering :P



As much as analysts and fanboys like to make comments like "Sony is losing $200 on every PS3!" no one's business strategy is that insane.

Sony picked the $600 initial price point because they knew they were going to get some massive manufacturing cost reductions immediately and they could afford to sell the PS3 at that price for 12 to 18 months (with most of it being at  a small loss or profit).

The area I think Sony potentially miscalculated is the rate at which they will be required to reduce the price of the PS3. Sony has (typically) reduced the price of their system on 18 to 24 month intervals and usually doesn't push large price reductions; as a guess I don't think they anticipated being at $300 until 2009.



HappySquirrel: Microsoft? Both consoles have launched with them losing money at their retail price points. Add in markup from channels and retail.

If only Dos was sold like that. But that only cost them 40K. (Bill Gates was smart and Savvy, if evil)



See Ya George.

"He did not die - He passed Away"

At least following a comedians own jokes makes his death easier.

FishyJoe said:

Sony and Microsoft don't invest in fabrication. They contract stuff like that out. 

It's still probably more expensive to "rent" a 65nm fab, not that it doesn't pay out for big chips like the Cell.



Reality has a Nintendo bias.
Fuzzmosis said:
HappySquirrel: Microsoft? Both consoles have launched with them losing money at their retail price points. Add in markup from channels and retail.

If only Dos was sold like that. But that only cost them 40K. (Bill Gates was smart and Savvy, if evil)

I've personally never been all that convinced that the hardware losses were the primarly reason that Microsoft has been losing money on the XBox. Microsoft from day 1 has been spending more money that Sony and Nintendo on Marketing, exclusive games, and buying development studios; Microsoft's profitability was also hurt further because although they produced a similar number of games as Sony and Nintendo in the same time frame only a small fraction broke 1 Million units sold worldwide and a large portion of them were rumored to be unprofitable.

As a demonstration:

Name Console Publisher Japan America Others Total
Halo 2 Microsoft 0.11 6.46 1.67 8.24
Halo Microsoft 0.10 4.91 1.42 6.43
Fable Microsoft 0.00 1.95 0.65 2.60
Project Gotham Racing Microsoft 0.05 1.40 0.69 2.14
Project Gotham Racing 2 Microsoft 0.04 0.85 0.67 1.56
Forza Motorsport Microsoft 0.00 0.45 0.56 1.01
Totals (6 matches) 0.3 16.0 5.7 22.0

Number of Microsoft Game Studio games on the XBox: 65
Million Seller Percentage of game releases: ~10%

Name Console Publisher Japan America Others Total
Mario Kart: Double Dash Nintendo 0.89 3.85 1.86 6.60
Super Smash Bros Melee Nintendo 1.44 4.06 1.08 6.58
Super Mario Sunshine Nintendo 0.87 3.73 1.31 5.91
The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker Nintendo 0.89 2.44 1.05 4.38
Luigi Mansion Nintendo 0.46 2.21 0.72 3.39
Metroid Prime Nintendo 0.12 1.92 0.73 2.77
Pokemon Collosseum Nintendo 0.71 1.17 0.62 2.50
Animal Crossing Nintendo 0.66 1.68 0.15 2.49
Mario Party 4 Nintendo 0.92 1.13 0.39 2.44
Mario Party 5 Nintendo 0.73 0.96 0.36 2.05
Paper Mario 2 Nintendo 0.46 1.23 0.26 1.95
Starfox Adventures Nintendo 0.32 0.95 0.58 1.85
Pikmin Nintendo 0.56 0.78 0.27 1.61
Mario Party 6 Nintendo 0.60 0.85 0.11 1.56
Super Mario Strikers Nintendo 0.21 0.91 0.42 1.54
Kirbys Air Ride Nintendo 0.45 0.96 0.12 1.53
Mario Party 7 Nintendo 0.47 0.90 0.11 1.48
Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour Nintendo 0.25 1.03 0.15 1.43
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Nintendo 0.04 0.92 0.34 1.30
Metroid Prime 2: Echoes Nintendo 0.07 0.82 0.37 1.26
Pokemon XD Nintendo 0.35 0.58 0.21 1.14
Mario Power Tennis Nintendo 0.46 0.53 0.15 1.14
Pokemon XD: Gale Of Darkness Nintendo 0.52 0.59 0.00 1.11
Donkey Konga Nintendo 0.46 0.43 0.17 1.06
Pikmin 2 Nintendo 0.56 0.35 0.14 1.05
Totals (25 matches) 13.5 35.0 11.7 60.1

Number of Nintendo published games on the Gamecube: 62
Million Seller Percentage of game releases: ~45%

 

The reason I brought Nintendo into this is becase I wanted to point out how low Microsoft's gaming income was by using sales on a system that sold worse than the original XBox. The Console industry has a ton of money sinks and Microsoft simply did not make enough money to cover their expenses and this (not hardware losses) is why they have lost so much money.