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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Do Third Parties want the Wii to win this gen?

I don't think third parties have any reason to stop the Wii from succeeding. However I do think they have reason to hope that the PS3 succeeds, as a lot of companies have already put a lot of resources into it.


As for Celbs silly power argument. Dragon Quest abandoned the Playstation brand to go to... the DS!


I'm a mod, come to me if there's mod'n to do. 

Chrizum is the best thing to happen to the internet, Period.

Serves me right for challenging his sales predictions!

Bet with dsisister44: Red Steel 2 will sell 1 million within it's first 365 days of sales.

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Stof I don't think people like Celb can honestly think that is the truth, it's just an obvious bias showing through.



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

johnsobas said:
Stof I don't think people like Celb can honestly think that is the truth, it's just an obvious bias showing through.

 Oh I know, that's why I didn't say "Celb, I think your wrong because...". I said "as for Celb's arguments" and added in something that is important. The DS has taken Japan's largest franchise away from Playstation consoles. That really puts the whole power/art paradigm in a new perspective.



I'm a mod, come to me if there's mod'n to do. 

Chrizum is the best thing to happen to the internet, Period.

Serves me right for challenging his sales predictions!

Bet with dsisister44: Red Steel 2 will sell 1 million within it's first 365 days of sales.

Celb said:
Nope.

They don't want to make previous gen quality games, to many of them see their work as art. Who wants their art to be held back by weak hardware if much much more capable hardware is out there to use.

Most 3rd party devs spent alot of money designing game engines that the wii is to weak to run, which is why your seeing NO big 3rd party franchise making the jump from 360/PS3 to the wii.

  

If i follow your argument, all the games out on PS2, X-Box or Cube are not art, because the technology was too limited... and so, we have all bought shitty games for the last two decades, right?

But i think it's your argument that's limited...

Art doesn't depend on the resolution on your screen: an ugly art work in 1080p will stay ugly forever, when a beautiful art work in 480i will look beautiful to anyone, just as any great movie we saw on our good old tv for decades...

And a fun and innovative game will stay fun and innovative for a long long time... even if technology keeps on evolving, the charm will stay forever... 

That HD thing is pure bullshit... it's a nice technical progress, yes, maybe, but it's not THAT essential, it's out to make you buy a new TV (and a expensive one, that is), a new collection of dvd's (yes, again! and be prepared to do it again in 7 years...), a new game console with "essential" new games for a "new" generation, and so on... that's pure consumerism... and it doesn't improve the artistic side of anything, game or movie or whatever!

On another hand, if you want to talk about art and creativity, the Wii interface is indeed a great tool to imagine new ways of playing, and may be a great opportunity for 3P's to prove their talent...  and their "real" artistic side! In 1080p or not, that's definitely NOT the point...

 



 

"A beautiful drawing in 480i will stay beautiful forever...

and an ugly drawing in 1080p will stay ugly forever..."

68soul said:
Celb said:
Nope.

They don't want to make previous gen quality games, to many of them see their work as art. Who wants their art to be held back by weak hardware if much much more capable hardware is out there to use.

Most 3rd party devs spent alot of money designing game engines that the wii is to weak to run, which is why your seeing NO big 3rd party franchise making the jump from 360/PS3 to the wii.

If i follow your argument, all the games out on PS2, X-Box or Cube are not art, because the technology was too limited... and so, we have all bought shitty games for the last two decades, right?

But i think it's your argument that's limited...

Art doesn't depend on the resolution on your screen: an ugly art work in 1080p will stay ugly forever, when a beautiful art work in 480i will look beautiful to anyone, just as any great movie we saw on our good old tv for decades...

And a fun and innovative game will stay fun and innovative for a long long time... even if technology keeps on evolving, the charm will stay forever...

That HD thing is pure bullshit... it's a nice technical progress, yes, maybe, but it's not THAT essential, it's out to make you buy a new TV (and a expensive one, that is), a new collection of dvd's (yes, again! and be prepared to do it again in 7 years...), a new game console with "essential" new games for a "new" generation, and so on... that's pure consumerism... and it doesn't improve the artistic side of anything, game or movie or whatever!

On another hand, if you want to talk about art and creativity, the Wii interface is indeed a great tool to imagine new ways of playing, and may be a great opportunity for 3P's to prove their talent... and their "real" artistic side! In 1080p or not, that's definitely NOT the point...

 


that the best they had to work with.

whatever is done on the wii can be 10 times better on the PS3 or 360! thats power.

 why hold your self back with old tech, use the bst that you can.



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Punch Rockgroin said:
dgenerate said:
I think all the devs see the Wii as $$$$
"Hey, check out how many people have this system, and how simple the popular games for it are! Lets spend the afternoon making a some silly minigames and make a bunch of cash. Then we can get back to making cool games like Gears of War"

I see Nintendo coming up with some pretty cool games for the Wii, but everyone else seems to be in minigame mania. Big, epic games will always be on the console with a regular controller and better graphics.

 I agree and it's a shame. I don't think devs WANT to push the Wii to it's limits. They see it as a way to make a quick buck. All the PS2 ports with lame waggle controls added on seem lazy to me. I understand they were caught off guard, but even announced games aren't impressing me. The lack of creativity is disappointing and I don't think all this port business is what Nintendo had in my mind. 

It's too early to judge since games take time to develop, really.  If it's like this in a year's time, and I really hope it isn't, then we'll have every right to bitch. I doubt it though.  

Dodo's could get away with being fat and lazy for awhile, but they couldn't hide away forever, and eventually competition did them in.

Developers who take the same route will be in for a rude awakening once their competition starts putting games out with more polish. 

 



johnsobas said:
3rd party developers would rather develop for Wii, and the reason why is very simple (we're not talking about userbase size or demographics here). They would rather develop for Wii because it is easier and cheaper to develop for. The lower the cost to make it, the lower the risk for developers. Developers don't care about making great graphics, they want to make money. The only problem there could be for developers is getting used to developing for the wiimote.

This must be the reason that GTAIV is on the Wii, oh wait... snap....

Please stop confusing devs and publishers. A dev is more like an artist, they want to make whatever they want to make, and they will choose the hardware that caters to their desires. While a publisher will "generally" make fund whatever dev project they believe will make money. There will be plenty of devs who will want to work with the newest tech as well as many that want to work with a new type of gameplay.

Devs don't care about great graphics? Are you stoopid or something? I think you still must mean publishers, but that's not true either. The Crysis devs don't care? What about Naughty Dog? Factor Five? Ninja Theory? Kojima? Sony and Microsoft certainly don't care.

Also, without the Wii there was going to be a video game draught? What the f&ck does the Wii have for it right now? It certainly will have some great titles coming out, but right now the selection is shittier than the choices on the PS3. Wii Sports, I don't think so. Zelda, yes, Super Paper Mario, yes, RE4(even if it's a remake), yes, maybe even PoP, but that's a stretch, but most of the games would not have appealed to many people that want what is available on the PS3/360. Hell, your just ignoring the fact that the PS2 is sustaining MANY gamers appetites still and will still be doing so for about 1 more year.

 

EDIT: Bullshit about that HD comment. HD is better than real life.  =p



WiteoutKing said:
The third parties do not want a winner. They want a competitive field. They want to have to make games for multiple consoles to sell their product.

That said, I would not be surprised if there was a mild bias toward the Wii. Not because of brand-name favoritism. But because if the Wii performs well enough, it will open up a new way to make and play games for this and all following generations.

 

Having said that earlier, let me reverse myself with this hypothetical:

3rd parties make money by selling games. The larger the market, the more games they sell. Sony and MS were largely expanding the market mostly by keeping up with the aging demographic - make games and consoles appealing to older gamers, so that as they get into their 20s and 30s they do not abandon the hobby. Of the 3 consoles, only Nintendo built its strategy on dramatically expanding the existing market well beyond its original parmeters. Thus one could argue, in the long term, the 3rd parties would benefit best by Nintendo's success, in the hopes that next generation, Sony and MS would attempt to copy this strategy, growing the market by even larger margins, and dramaically opening up the market for all 3rd parties to profit.



i personally think you have a misconception of art celb. and on a side note, do you even do any programming?





Celb said:
68soul said:
Celb said:
Nope.

They don't want to make previous gen quality games, to many of them see their work as art. Who wants their art to be held back by weak hardware if much much more capable hardware is out there to use.

Most 3rd party devs spent alot of money designing game engines that the wii is to weak to run, which is why your seeing NO big 3rd party franchise making the jump from 360/PS3 to the wii.

If i follow your argument, all the games out on PS2, X-Box or Cube are not art, because the technology was too limited... and so, we have all bought shitty games for the last two decades, right?

But i think it's your argument that's limited...

Art doesn't depend on the resolution on your screen: an ugly art work in 1080p will stay ugly forever, when a beautiful art work in 480i will look beautiful to anyone, just as any great movie we saw on our good old tv for decades...

And a fun and innovative game will stay fun and innovative for a long long time... even if technology keeps on evolving, the charm will stay forever...

That HD thing is pure bullshit... it's a nice technical progress, yes, maybe, but it's not THAT essential, it's out to make you buy a new TV (and a expensive one, that is), a new collection of dvd's (yes, again! and be prepared to do it again in 7 years...), a new game console with "essential" new games for a "new" generation, and so on... that's pure consumerism... and it doesn't improve the artistic side of anything, game or movie or whatever!

On another hand, if you want to talk about art and creativity, the Wii interface is indeed a great tool to imagine new ways of playing, and may be a great opportunity for 3P's to prove their talent... and their "real" artistic side! In 1080p or not, that's definitely NOT the point...

 


that the best they had to work with.

whatever is done on the wii can be 10 times better on the PS3 or 360! thats power.

why hold your self back with old tech, use the bst that you can.


 They hold themselves back for the same reason they used the PS2 instead of the Cube or Xbox.



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