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‘De Blob’ Developer Urges Caution To Wii ‘MotionPlus’ Developers

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - ‘De Blob’ Developer Urges Caution To Wii ‘MotionPlus’ Developers

From MTV,

http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/09/23/de-blob-motionplus/

MotionPlus finally will allow for 1:1 motion control, a criticism leveled at the Wiimote since its release.

Nick Hagger, the producer of Wii’s “de Blob,” however, told me MotionPlus could lead to unneeded complexity to motion controls.

“I think if we had the MotionPlus to start out with, maybe the control scheme would have worked out a little bit differently,” said Hagger in a phone interview late last week. “I think the temptation with having Wii MotionPlus would have been to push it more in a gestural control scheme. While it’s definitely intellectually stimulating from a development perspective to play with those ideas — and I think it does appeal to a set of gamers out there — I think the majority of people that play on the Wii want something very simple that they can just immediately get their heads around.”

Do you agree with his assessment of most Wii players, readers?

“de Blob” arrives on store shelves today.



PC + Wii owners unite.  Our last-gen dying platforms have access to nearly every 90+ rated game this gen.  Building a PC that visually outperforms PS360 is cheap and easy.    Oct 7th 2010 predictions (made Dec 17th '08)
PC: 10^9
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Wasn't there a dev tool to which was meant for easy programming of Wii Motion Plus, in a sense that the tool allows you to program it with your own movements?
If he wasn't talking about programming the Motion Plus, the devs still need, in practice, program the controls to standard Wii Remote, so if there isn't "unneccessary complex" control schemes at the moment, i doubt there will be because of Wii Motion Plus.
Besides, no matter the controls, you still can make them "unneccesrarily complex".

And i'm betting that most of the Wii owners don't mind complex control schemes, as long as we have a working scheme, because majority of Wii owners are people who have played games in the last gen.

But, in general, very bad timing to go and comment something like that.



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Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

True, especially considering Wii remote control is like the only critisizm going round about de Blob right now.



“When we make some new announcement and if there is no positive initial reaction from the market, I try to think of it as a good sign because that can be interpreted as people reacting to something groundbreaking. ...if the employees were always minding themselves to do whatever the market is requiring at any moment, and if they were always focusing on something we can sell right now for the short term, it would be very limiting. We are trying to think outside the box.” - Satoru Iwata - This is why corporate multinationals will never truly understand, or risk doing, what Nintendo does.

just like going from 2d to 3d meant a lot of bad titles when developers didn't think out how to best use 3d's advantages, going from buttons to motion is experiencing the same thing

they just have to think about how to do it properly; motionplus is a HUGE advance for video games



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Predictions:

Wii will sell 18-20mil by 12/31/07  CHECKWii will sell 45mil+ WW by 12/31/08Wii will surpass PS2 sales WW by 11/17/11 (5yr anniversary)Wii Fit will hit 12mil sales in 2009MKWii+SSBB+Wii Fit+SMG > 50 mil sales by 2010 > gta4+mgs+gt5+ff13+haze+lbp

It's the urge for caution that was issued by dev's towards the Wiimote itself.

It's important to heed, not because there is a set way of developing games for such a controller, but because different ways work for different types of games.

I'm sure there will be some misses and some fantastic hits. But at least with the Motion Plus, those misses will come from bad implementation as opposed to the controller not actually registering the proper motions.



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Well I think that some will like the complexity haha. I mean some games really just need Motionplus and some don't. It's a developer choice really. Possibly why Nintendo is making it an accessory and not built in or a requirement.



The problem with WMP has less to do with complexity and more to do with the fact that video game characters cannot and should not be limited to doing only what the player is capable of. There isn't a single person on these boards, who is, for example, as skilled with a sword as Link needs to be. Put 1:1 into a Zelda game, and either you have to dumb it down severely or everybody dies.

Expressive gestures are far superior: figure out what the player wants and then have the onscreen character do it properly. But the fanboys want 1:1, and they're going to get their wish. I'm just looking forward to all the 180-degree spins that will happen when Wii Sports Resort comes out, all the 1:1 fanboys get a chance to actually use what they've been asking for all this time, and they suddenly realize just how badly it works in practice as a game interface.



Complexity is not depth. Machismo is not maturity. Obsession is not dedication. Tedium is not challenge. Support gaming: support the Wii.

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What do I hate about modern gaming? I hate tedium replacing challenge, complexity replacing depth, and domination replacing entertainment. I hate the outsourcing of mechanics to physics textbooks, art direction to photocopiers, and story to cheap Hollywood screenwriters. I hate the confusion of obsession with dedication, style with substance, new with gimmicky, old with obsolete, new with evolutionary, and old with time-tested.
There is much to hate about modern gaming. That is why I support the Wii.

Millennium said:
The problem with WMP has less to do with complexity and more to do with the fact that video game characters cannot and should not be limited to doing only what the player is capable of. There isn't a single person on these boards, who is, for example, as skilled with a sword as Link needs to be. Put 1:1 into a Zelda game, and either you have to dumb it down severely or everybody dies.

Expressive gestures are far superior: figure out what the player wants and then have the onscreen character do it properly. But the fanboys want 1:1, and they're going to get their wish. I'm just looking forward to all the 180-degree spins that will happen when Wii Sports Resort comes out, all the 1:1 fanboys get a chance to actually use what they've been asking for all this time, and they suddenly realize just how badly it works in practice as a game interface.

I think your misguided haha personally.  The hardest part of doing the actual gestures would be the physical aspect... not the imitation.  This is why the actors and Star Wars barely have any training to be able to do a realistic sword fight or whatnot.  Anyone can imitate and look like a sword master.  It's just actually wielding a sword and completing the physical aspect.  And seeing that the wiimote is less than half a pound in weight, people should have too much trouble. 

However all the pussies in the beginning complaining how Wii Sports was tiring them out and making them sore.  Seriously that's just embarrasing.  Can't believe people used that as an arguement against Wii.  Only made them look like weak nerds haha.



Millennium said:
The problem with WMP has less to do with complexity and more to do with the fact that video game characters cannot and should not be limited to doing only what the player is capable of. There isn't a single person on these boards, who is, for example, as skilled with a sword as Link needs to be. Put 1:1 into a Zelda game, and either you have to dumb it down severely or everybody dies.

Expressive gestures are far superior: figure out what the player wants and then have the onscreen character do it properly. But the fanboys want 1:1, and they're going to get their wish. I'm just looking forward to all the 180-degree spins that will happen when Wii Sports Resort comes out, all the 1:1 fanboys get a chance to actually use what they've been asking for all this time, and they suddenly realize just how badly it works in practice as a game interface.

 

Some great points.  However, keep in mind MotionPlus does not have to be used for 1:1.  It can also be used as a more accurate replacement for expressive gestures.  Link doesn't have to imitate our awkward movements, so long as he does the swing we imagine ourselves doing.

 

 



PC + Wii owners unite.  Our last-gen dying platforms have access to nearly every 90+ rated game this gen.  Building a PC that visually outperforms PS360 is cheap and easy.    Oct 7th 2010 predictions (made Dec 17th '08)
PC: 10^9
Wii: 10^8

Character animations will still have to be pre-defined/animated.

Take a look at a game like Wii Sports Kendo and see that it's set up like Wii Sports Boxing, complete with the missing limbs. All you see is the boken/shinai in Kendo, and the boxing gloves in Boxing.

Boxing uses pre-defined animations to determine the type of punch or move the on screen character performs, based upon the motion input being interpreted from the Remote and Nunchuk.

Kendo with M+ allows the boken to tilt, angle, move by tracking player motions, but even clumsy swings are still translated into hits if not blocked/dodged. It just allows for more precise motion tracking in addition to being able to sense change of position in space thanks to the gyroscope.

You'd have a different situation with something like Link in a Zelda game unless the game switches to a first person view mode like Wii Kendo. As a third person game, at best you could expect to see the distinction between left to right swing, right to left swing, low to high swing and high to low. Add diagonal cuts and the animations double to 8. Add high across, low sweep and you just added an additional 4 animations/swings. Add a thrust, a straight overhead down swing and you just added an additional two.

It can become as complicated as the developer wants it to, or as complicated as the animators are willing to produce animations for each possible move, down to various random panic flailing animations.

It is far easier, and far likelier that the programmers will instead translate player movements performed within preset parameters (possible translations for a simple left to right slash for example) into an onscreen animation. There would be no real free motion allowing a player to rapidly scribble with the Remote in the air to create a "wall of swords" attack.

The idea is for more precise tracking, which could just mean better translation of player movements (what they're trying to do) into onscreen animations (what their input actually makes the character do).

Boxing was a prime example of where the motion tracking of the standard remote came up short. The player could be a professional boxer throwing rapid jabs and combos, only to see their character animation failing to translate those punches into what would be actual hits in a real boxing match.