It's clear at this point that ckmlb will say or do whatever it takes to take the piss out of this thread. It's not worth anyone's time to attempt to continue debating with him.

ckmlb said: 3. Like I said, I was only discussing 2007 so I don't care about the years previous and their Japanese games. 5. These are the games of 2007, Nintendo isn't going to announce any more big games for the rest of 07 for the Wii, we know the lineup now. 6. Why make the list if you were so sure about Nintendo supporting Core gamers? 7. It's irrelevant what games Nintendo was publishing before this new casual centric philosophy that they have because there was no Wii back then. Using a big number of old games as an example of where Nintendo is going in the future is futile. 8. By saying that the core game numbers in 2002-2003 are comparable to 2007 would be to ignore that the total number of games was smaller in those two years compared to 07 which is why the number of core games are close.  Total 2002 games on the GC in the US: 12 Total 2003 games on the GC in the US: 12 Total 2007 games on the Wii in the US: 17

Hey ckmlb, how's it going.  I don't mean to jump on you or anything, but your arguements normally make more sense that this one is.  It really does seem like you are just trying to slam Nintendo just for the sake of slamming Nintendo right now, because you seem to be ignoring anything said to the contrary.

 As to your point 3 (and 7): I don't see how previous years don't matter at all.  If Nintendo is drifting away from the core gamer, you are saying they make less core games now, than in they have in the past.  So it very much matters the number of core games made in the past versus the present.

As to your point 5 and the list of what you thought were the core games of the 2007 releases in this thread.  Am I wrong that the list is a good amount of core games?

As to your point 6:  RolStoppable made the list because so many people are saying the Wii is ignoring core gamers.  Are you saying that you never defend incorrect statements about your chosen system?

As to your point 8:  I'm sorry, but what you said didn't make much sense.  If the core game numbers in 2007 are the same as back in 2002 and 2003, then they are obviously doing as much for the core gamer now, as they have in the past.  How would that mean Nintendo is now ignoring the core gamer?  The larger number of games this year, with the same number of core games, means exactly what RolStoppable said.  "The truth is that Nintendo is making a lot of games aimed at this new audiences, but this isn't happening at the expense of their core game franchises."  Nintendo is expanding into the casuals, but not taking anything away from their core market.

OK, so here's a list of what I would consider the non-casual games for the GCN from 2002 (which should be comparable to 2007 for the Wii). AC is borderline casual, but I included it here to be conservative.

GameCube Wave Race: Blue Storm
GameCube Super Smash Bros. Melee
GameCube Super Mario Sunshine
GameCube Animal Crossing
GameCube Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem

And here's a list of released and expected non-casual games for the Wii for 2007.

Wii Super Paper Mario
Wii Mario Strikers Charged
Wii Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
Wii Battalion Wars 2
Wii Fire Emblem: Goddess of Dawn
Wii Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Wii Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games
Wii Super Mario Galaxy

Obviously these list are subjective, but other people could put there own lists together to make an evaluation. By my own evaluation, though, it looks like Nintendo has boosted non-casual game production by over 50%.

ckmlb said: 8. By saying that the core game numbers in 2002-2003 are comparable to 2007 would be to ignore that the total number of games was smaller in those two years compared to 07 which is why the number of core games are close. Total 2002 games on the GC in the US: 12 Total 2003 games on the GC in the US: 12 Total 2007 games on the Wii in the US: 17

 Isn't this the whole point? That Nintendo is still making the same amount of core games? If Nintendo released core games year A is equal to year B in which way are they leaving the core gamers behind?

I am bumping this thread I really want an answer to my question that also were asked which also is stated by Hawk and Bodhesatva from ckmlb. So ckmlb will you answer or will you do a run and cover?

I think ckmlb is deliberately being unreasonable & pedantic in an effort to derail the thread. I believe that his motivation for doing this is to prevent the conclusion, which looking at the evidence seems obvious, that despite the ignorant mass's claims Nintendo has not in fact deserted the traditional gamer. The fact that he claims the poster him/herself is posing this question shows that he/she is worried about N's stance is a dirty tactic, and one purely aimed at muddying the waters. It is also extremely hypocritical since ckmlb is probably one of the most defensive of his chosen console on the whole forum.

ckmlb, I say this as somebody who has frequented this site for a while and has witnessed your posts descend from reasonable debate to immature fanboy smokescreening, grow up.

 

Typical breakdown of threads like this.

Somebody: (Post a topic of interest in Nintendo and/or its games) "I'm excited about this aspect/game of Nintendo."

Ckmlb: [Insert condiscending/belittling response degredading either Nintendo, its products or the user's opinion.]

Somebody: (Tries to rationally counter Ckmlb's reservations objectively and calmly.) "Sir your claims are somewhat off the mark and here are the reasons why..."

Ckmlb: *Explodes*

- Thread degenerates into lists of upcomming PS3 games and/or discussion regarding the value of Nintendo's games and market appeal. Yet another thread is turned into a pissing contest.

Gballzack: [Insert response illustrating the folly of the thread or joins in pointing out the flaws in Ckmlb's attacks]

Ckmlb: (Counters with a personal attack) "Gballzack you're such a troll."

Gballzack: (Responds in kind) "Lololol, Sony fanboy"

Ckmlb: (Soap Box time) "I don't have a Sony bias, I just support the underdog, and by underdog I mean I think the PS3 is the best console ever and only support the competition so long as they're beneath Sony's thumb or not a threat to their success."

Gballzack: [Insert a well thought out counter]

Ckmlb: (The Cop out) "I'm not getting into a back n' forth match with you and conveniently I'm leaving this thread as to avoid prusuing this argument any further... and by 'leaving this thread' I mean staying in it and responding to other things you say."

- Thread reaches critical mass and collapses in on itself -

Nice.

@Gballzack

Nice...but I still want an answer from ckmlb

robjoh said: ckmlb said: 8. By saying that the core game numbers in 2002-2003 are comparable to 2007 would be to ignore that the total number of games was smaller in those two years compared to 07 which is why the number of core games are close. Total 2002 games on the GC in the US: 12 Total 2003 games on the GC in the US: 12 Total 2007 games on the Wii in the US: 17    Isn't this the whole point? That Nintendo is still making the same amount of core games? If Nintendo released core games year A is equal to year B in which way are they leaving the core gamers behind?

 Nintendo:  We need more games for the Wii what shall we do...uhm we just make another sequel of our popular franchises WOW SO SMART NOW WE HAVE FOR SURE 10 CORE GAMES OH MY GOD YOU ARE SMART.

Oh wait I have a great Idea  we make a game where Mario plays soccer WOW SO GREAT OH MAN YOU ARE THE BEST

Oh wait we will also make games where he plays tennis, golf, baseball,, plays minigames with his friends

Oh man now we have MORE CORE GAMES THAN on the GC we are so smart.

Oh wait let we make a game to with Wario and some MINIGAMES!!  OH MY GOD OH MY GOD YOU DESERVE 
A WAGE RISE

.... 

 

 But...but shall we not make new franchises?  .....  Oh my god who said that?   OH MY GOD YOU ARE SO DUMB!!  NEW FRANCHISES DON'T SELL SO MUCH!  OH MY GOD YOU ARE A DISHONOUR OF YOUR FAMILY!
GO YOU ARE FIRED  COMMIT  HARAKIRI FOR THE NAME OF YOUR FAMILY

Aargh.

And so an usual day in Nintendo has passed :).