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Locked: Nintendo is worth more than Sony!

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo is worth more than Sony!

Bodhesatva said:

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9584_22-6193002.html

http://www.themoneytimes.com/articles/20070625/nintendo_surpasses_rival_sony_in_market_value-id-105311.html

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/BUSINESS/06/24/nintendo.sony.reut/index.html

http://news.independent.co.uk/business/news/article2710684.ece

Relevant text: Nintendo shares rose as high as 46,350 yen (£187.65), a record, boosting its market value to 6.57 trillion yen and narrowly surpassing Sony's market capitalisation for a time, before settling lower. The achievement is extraordinary because, where Nintendo is a pure gaming company, Sony is a multinational entertainment and consumer electronics conglomerate whose interests run from movie studios to mobile phones.

It really isn't a matter of wanting, frankly. 

Even when Sony was dominating the market, their games division was making less money than Nintendo was, because Nintendo continued to dominate the hand held market and because Sony took such drastic price cuts and lost so much money on the console itself. So if Nintendo was already making more money when Sony was dominant and they were marginalized, imagine the disparity when that situation is reversed.

Just remember that this has little to do with the actual gaming experience of the consumers. Just because Nintendo makes more money does NOT mean that Sony cannot get great games and, for that matter, doesn't preclude them from winning the generation; again, just look at last generation. All this means is that Nintendo makes more money.


I never said that Sony's -->gaming<--- division ever made more money than Nintendo, or even Sony Corp. and it's subsidiaries as whole do(even though yes they do) I simply said once, twice, eighteen times before. I have yet to see anyone show that the NET worth of Nintendo to be greater than Sony, which is what the thread title leads one to believe....... I've really gotta stop posting on this thread, later.



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vizunary said:

Some nerve calling me a fanboy, you and GBallZack are the personifications of Wiiboys. So how about I explain what I said in the first place:


695

NintendoJapan Technology Hardware & Equip 4.33 0.84 9.79 34.00
164 SonyJapan Technology Hardware & Equip 63.62 1.05 88.75 52.14
Nintendo (other-otc: NTDOY - news - people ) shares rose as high as 46,350 yen ($374.50) Monday morning in Osaka, giving the Kyoto-based company a market cap of 6.56 trillion yen ($52.9 billion) compared to 6.49 trillion ($52.3 billion) for Sony (nyse: SNE - news - people ). It fell back below Sony in the early afternoon as investors took profits, dropping 50 yen (40 cents), or 0.11%, to 45,400 yen ($366). Sony was trading at 6,470 yen ($52), down 80 yen (65 cents), or 1.22%. - Forbes.com
 
Overall, I was mainly saying that the title of the thread is misleading, and as far as total company value, Nintendo isn't even in th same game, sorry, but 4.3 billion in sales compared to 63.5 billion(USD) isn't much of a comparison. I think overall we're talking about different things...... what an utter waste of time this has been

We know that Sony has vastly more assets, and more sales, but what a company is worth is measured by market capitalization, and how well a company is doing is measured by its return on invested capital.  The point is actually illustrated very clearly by the chart you posted above.  Sony has $89 billion in assets and made $1.05 billion in profits.  Nintendo has $10 billion in assets and made $0.84 billion in profits.  Which company is getting a better return on its investments?

For everyone else, see how I just did that without calling vizunary a fanboy? 



vizunary said:
 

I never said that Sony's -->gaming<--- division ever made more money than Nintendo, or even Sony Corp. and it's subsidiaries as whole do(even though yes they do) I simply said once, twice, eighteen times before. I have yet to see anyone show that the NET worth of Nintendo to be greater than Sony, which is what the thread title leads one to believe....... I've really gotta stop posting on this thread, later.


the bottom line is--there are many measures of "worth" or "value" of a company.

the most commonly accepted one is Market Cap. total Revenue is also frequently used, since Market Cap fluctuates a lot on a company's present performance. Assets is another, but it gets increasing more difficult to compare companies across different industries suing that measure.

it does lead to somewhat strange results--like Google being a company 3 times the size of Sony in terms market cap. is Sony still a bigger company conceptually? i'll give you that. but Google can acquire Sony much easier than Sony to acquire Google, in terms of raising capital (ignoring details like premium, shareholder agreement, etc).  so... probably not that case in reality.

clearly, you know this--but you consciously decide to block it out. that kind of psychology is "fanboyism".

that a company with 4000 employees have a market cap comparable with a company with 150,000 employees is absolutely astounding. that's what we marvel at. it's human nature, to root for david against goliath.


 

 



the Wii is an epidemic.

Entroper said:

We know that Sony has vastly more assets, and more sales, but what a company is worth is measured by market capitalization, and how well a company is doing is measured by its return on invested capital.  The point is actually illustrated very clearly by the chart you posted above.  Sony has $89 billion in assets and made $1.05 billion in profits.  Nintendo has $10 billion in assets and made $0.84 billion in profits.  Which company is getting a better return on its investments?

For everyone else, see how I just did that without calling vizunary a fanboy? 


ok, ok... I've always understood what these numbers mean.... I don't know, maybe it was the vast generalization of the whole thing just peeved me for some reason. I'm not saying you're wrong(AT ALL) this is a legitimate way of looking at the scenario "profit per assets" But using the same formula I could show that the one beer store within 30 miles is "worth" more than either Sony or Nintendo, just making a point. Everything depends on how you look at it.

@Lingyis again I'm not blocking anything out using my "fanboyism"... truly if any of us could go back and get a couple thousand shares of Nintendo before it rocketed, that'd be great.

PS. I've been playing the Big N since the NES, I don't have anything against them or their machines, they just turned me off with the N64 and I went to PS, but FINALLY they've got a reason for me to get a Nintendo(the Wii) I just don't think it's worth $250, I'll get it when it cheapens up. Remember the whole argument about "perceived value"  just like the PSP, it's worth, heh, is about $150 to me and that's when I'll get one.



i hate anything to do with stock market and all the crapola.

just how the hell is it possible for google to be worth more then General Motors ? crazy ass world we live in.



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vizunary said:
Entroper said:

We know that Sony has vastly more assets, and more sales, but what a company is worth is measured by market capitalization, and how well a company is doing is measured by its return on invested capital. The point is actually illustrated very clearly by the chart you posted above. Sony has $89 billion in assets and made $1.05 billion in profits. Nintendo has $10 billion in assets and made $0.84 billion in profits. Which company is getting a better return on its investments?

For everyone else, see how I just did that without calling vizunary a fanboy?


ok, ok... I've always understood what these numbers mean.... I don't know, maybe it was the vast generalization of the whole thing just peeved me for some reason. I'm not saying you're wrong(AT ALL) this is a legitimate way of looking at the scenario "profit per assets" But using the same formula I could show that the one beer store within 30 miles is "worth" more than either Sony or Nintendo, just making a point. Everything depends on how you look at it.

@Lingyis again I'm not blocking anything out using my "fanboyism"... truly if any of us could go back and get a couple thousand shares of Nintendo before it rocketed, that'd be great.

PS. I've been playing the Big N since the NES, I don't have anything against them or their machines, they just turned me off with the N64 and I went to PS, but FINALLY they've got a reason for me to get a Nintendo(the Wii) I just don't think it's worth $250, I'll get it when it cheapens up. Remember the whole argument about "perceived value" just like the PSP, it's worth, heh, is about $150 to me and that's when I'll get one.


I want to reinforce this: having many conversations with Vizunary, he's very open about his likes and dislikes. And he's made it clear -- the only thing he's really automatically for/against is the 360, because he hates Microsoft. He's said this openly and repeatedly. He has praised Nintendo on many occassions, so please, let's stop calling him a fanboy. 

On the flipside, thanks for the apology Viz (even if it wasn't directed at me).  You're absolutely right that a Company's worth can be calculated in many ways, and that truth should be noted by everyone. 



http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">

vizunary said:
 

Some nerve calling me a fanboy, you and GBallZack are the personifications of Wiiboys. So how about I explain what I said in the first place:

1st, if you meaning gaming division, then say so.

2nd, stock value isn't company worth, ALL assets must be accounted for, the entire corporation, if liquidated, which is WORTH<-- you picked this word, are you still telling me that Nintendo Corp. is WORTH more than Sony Corp.? I still have yet to see company assets anywhere here. This is the closest I came-

for Nintendo, from Hoovers.com a D&B company<--- that would be Dun & Bradstreet for all you financial wizards.

Key Numbers

Key financials for Nintendo Co., Ltd. (Pink Sheets: NTDOY)

Company TypePublic (Pink Sheets: NTDOY; Exchange: Tokyo)
Fiscal Year-EndMarch
2006 Sales (mil.)$4,327.1
1-Year Sales Growth(9.6%)
2006 Net Income (mil.)$836.6
1-Year Net Income Growth2.9%
Get more Key Numbers
for Sony, same source

Key Numbers

Key financials for Sony Corporation (NYSE: SNE [ADR])

Company TypePublic (NYSE: SNE [ADR]; Exchange: Tokyo)
Fiscal Year-EndMarch
2006 Sales (mil.)$63,541.2
1-Year Sales Growth(4.6%)
2006 Net Income (mil.)$1,050.7
1-Year Net Income Growth(31.0%)
2006 Employees158,500
1-Year Employee Growth4.7%
Get more Key Numbers
So, are we comparing total sales? maybe net income? no and no... well let's look somewhere else- Forbes - Global top 2000 list.

695

NintendoJapan Technology Hardware & Equip 4.33 0.84 9.79 34.00
164 SonyJapan Technology Hardware & Equip 63.62 1.05 88.75 52.14
Nintendo (other-otc: NTDOY - news - people ) shares rose as high as 46,350 yen ($374.50) Monday morning in Osaka, giving the Kyoto-based company a market cap of 6.56 trillion yen ($52.9 billion) compared to 6.49 trillion ($52.3 billion) for Sony (nyse: SNE - news - people ). It fell back below Sony in the early afternoon as investors took profits, dropping 50 yen (40 cents), or 0.11%, to 45,400 yen ($366). Sony was trading at 6,470 yen ($52), down 80 yen (65 cents), or 1.22%. - Forbes.com
Overall, I was mainly saying that the title of the thread is misleading, and as far as total company value, Nintendo isn't even in th same game, sorry, but 4.3 billion in sales compared to 63.5 billion(USD) isn't much of a comparison. I think overall we're talking about different things...... what an utter waste of time this has been

huh, as i'm reading this, i am beginning to find it hard to believe you know what you're talking about. as to "the thread is misleading", yeah, you can argue that, but it really all comes down to the word "worth". which, starts becoming a matter of semantics. but anyway, say it's "net worth" you're talking about. well then you're listing only assets. what happened to liabilities if you're trying to be objective? in addition, after saying the thread is misleading about "worth" (net worth), you go on to quote sales figures, which is not related to net worth a all. all these inconsistencies. how are you gonna convince anybody what you are trying to say?

 

 EDIT: most people have trouble making statement that are consistently logical, especially since this is only a forum.  the above again, is a little harsh.  hmm.  i've been harsh twice in the same thread now.  sigh.

 



the Wii is an epidemic.

vizunary said:
FishyJoe said:
Sigh, it's not even worth explaining business to fanboys. It's like wasted breath.

Some nerve calling me a fanboy, you and GBallZack are the personifications of Wiiboys. So how about I explain what I said in the first place:

1st, if you meaning gaming division, then say so.

2nd, stock value isn't company worth, ALL assets must be accounted for, the entire corporation, if liquidated, which is WORTH<-- you picked this word, are you still telling me that Nintendo Corp. is WORTH more than Sony Corp.? I still have yet to see company assets anywhere here. This is the closest I came-

for Nintendo, from Hoovers.com a D&B company<--- that would be Dun & Bradstreet for all you financial wizards.

Key Numbers

Key financials for Nintendo Co., Ltd. (Pink Sheets: NTDOY)

Company TypePublic (Pink Sheets: NTDOY; Exchange: Tokyo)
Fiscal Year-EndMarch
2006 Sales (mil.)$4,327.1
1-Year Sales Growth(9.6%)
2006 Net Income (mil.)$836.6
1-Year Net Income Growth2.9%
Get more Key Numbers
for Sony, same source

Key Numbers

Key financials for Sony Corporation (NYSE: SNE [ADR])

Company TypePublic (NYSE: SNE [ADR]; Exchange: Tokyo)
Fiscal Year-EndMarch
2006 Sales (mil.)$63,541.2
1-Year Sales Growth(4.6%)
2006 Net Income (mil.)$1,050.7
1-Year Net Income Growth(31.0%)
2006 Employees158,500
1-Year Employee Growth4.7%
Get more Key Numbers
So, are we comparing total sales? maybe net income? no and no... well let's look somewhere else- Forbes - Global top 2000 list.

695

NintendoJapan Technology Hardware & Equip 4.33 0.84 9.79 34.00
164 SonyJapan Technology Hardware & Equip 63.62 1.05 88.75 52.14
Nintendo (other-otc: NTDOY - news - people ) shares rose as high as 46,350 yen ($374.50) Monday morning in Osaka, giving the Kyoto-based company a market cap of 6.56 trillion yen ($52.9 billion) compared to 6.49 trillion ($52.3 billion) for Sony (nyse: SNE - news - people ). It fell back below Sony in the early afternoon as investors took profits, dropping 50 yen (40 cents), or 0.11%, to 45,400 yen ($366). Sony was trading at 6,470 yen ($52), down 80 yen (65 cents), or 1.22%. - Forbes.com
Overall, I was mainly saying that the title of the thread is misleading, and as far as total company value, Nintendo isn't even in th same game, sorry, but 4.3 billion in sales compared to 63.5 billion(USD) isn't much of a comparison. I think overall we're talking about different things...... what an utter waste of time this has been

Way to go financial genius, you are looking at financial data from 2006. 2007 numbers have been out for months. Nintendo is in another world financially in 2007. Sales grew 89.8% from 2006 to 2007. Net income grew 77.2%.

You want to judge a company on your basis? Ok then, how about GM? GM has over $207 billion in revenue for 2007. GM has over $186 billion in assets. It makes Sony look like a pipsqueak. Do you want to own GM because of it's revenue and assets??? Be my guest.



Now, now - play nice everyone. No need to go name calling. Stick to the facts, and everything should be fine.

We don't want any more bans coming out of this thread... 



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