My favorite game of all time, Allegiance, was a 'tech demo'.

If you don't want to count Wii Sports and the likes as games sold, you should probably take Myst off as one of the all time best selling games.

Uhm... of course you can count it as games sold if you want to... but there is no easy way to compare the sales of a forced bundled game with a game that wasnt forced. Wii sports is forced, its that simple, you can guess all you want on how many it would have sold if it wasnt bundled though.

And on Wii Play. Thats a solid sell of a game, its not forced... the only place it shouldnt be counted is on the full price games sold lists, since the game is a budget game ($10-$20?).

Geometry war is a game that I've played almost once a week and I only paid 5 dollars for it... does that mean that I saved 45 dollars?

and the tech in the wii-mote has been done before, just never on such a large scale.

In Japan the attach rate for wiisports is about 60%... it would probably be lower in america if the game was listed at $50. People would look at Zelda for 50 and then look at wiisports for 50 and choose zelda (if they were only getting one game)

Personal value does not mean retail value of course. I think that wiisports would retail for no more than $30 dollars, anything over that and people might feel ripped off. Kind of like Shadow run... 9 level and 3 game modes is on par with wiisports in terms of content... and everyone complained they were overcharging... in fact in many cases the price is what hampered its reviews... they said it was a great game that was too costly.

I agree about Shadowrun, and I agree about Wii Sports' price. If Wii Sports was separate from the Wii console, I'm guessing it would retail for $30. Personally, I would pay $50 for it though...but that certainly would be too much for some people.

Keeper Garrett said: I think count them all, I don't know anyone who didn't at least TRY Wii Sports.

Of course we tried it - it came with our console for FREE (assuming you're from America - and since that's where this argument comes into play).

To be honest, right now it's the only thing I like to play on my Wii, but I still don't think it should count in software sales.

I agree with the first response though - if we had a different Wii option that didn't include Wii Sports, sure. Then you include it. But since there is only 1 option, and that option happens to include Wii Sports, I don't think it should be at the top of the software list.

BenKenobi88 said: It's not free though...the price of the game is part of the deal.

I'd agree with that if there was a version with a different price that DIDN'T include Wii Sports. Otherwise, it IS free to us who bought the Wii. We didn't buy the Wii because it came with Wii Sports. We're playing Wii Sports because it came with the Wii.

If that's the case then, Hexix HD should be included in software sales since it comes bundled with the XBox 360. But I've never seen it on the list.

Alvar said: Uhm... of course you can count it as games sold if you want to... but there is no easy way to compare the sales of a forced bundled game with a game that wasnt forced. Wii sports is forced, its that simple, you can guess all you want on how many it would have sold if it wasnt bundled though. And on Wii Play. Thats a solid sell of a game, its not forced... the only place it shouldnt be counted is on the full price games sold lists, since the game is a budget game ($10-$20?).

Not only can you not guess how many would have sold if they didn't bundle it, but you can't guess how many people would buy other games if the Wii didn't come with Wii Sports.  Even the people would wouldn't have felt compelled to buy Wii Sports if it didnt' come with it, many of those people might have bought 3 games instead of 2 because of Wii Sports.

This isn't an all-or-nothing proposition. Some people did, in fact, buy a Wii for Wii Sports. And some of those who bought a Wii for Zelda or another game may have not bought an additional game because Wii Sports came with the package.

And so if you count Wii Sports, attach rates seem too high, but if you don't count Wii Sports, attach rates seem too low. The fact is that SOME, but not ALL sales of Wii Sports should be counted, because SOME, but not ALL people had their software buying affected by the pack-in.

But no one likes that, because everyone is either trying to inflate or diminish the Wii's success; not truthfully evaluate it.

Gosh that packaging looks frikgen awesome! Ok, where was I? Yeah, I'm sure you know the difference Fishyjoe but just choose to try and ignore stuff. The thing is I can see why people have eyebrows raised with Wii sport numbers but at the end of the day, it was a marketing strategy that did get the game in the hands of the consumer. Sly, but very effect. So I say Wii sports should be counted as sales even though it came packaged with no choice of not gettin it. It's a strategy that sold the game: a sale, is a sale, is a sale - period!

I do think the competition, in light of this, will do something similar next gen. I'm guessing Sony will probably have a game of "HOTSHOTS: golf, tennis, pool & basketball" on their next installment... even if the industry goes soley DLC.