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Forums - Sony Discussion - Top 10 Reasons To Keep the PS3 Dream Alive

Gballzack said:
IllegalPaladin said:

Gballzack, I don't fully agree with some of your points.

-Of course, but that's the developers job. However, I don't believe Nintendo when they say that with power, all your games will suck. Again, it's the developers job to harness that power. Think Valve's Source engine and Epic's Unreal engine, as time goes on, more additions and fixes improve on that powerful software.

So in otherwords a console such as the Atari Jaguar didn't fail, it was the Developers who failed? It had nothing to do with the fact that the Jaguar was infamously difficult to develop for, it was the Developers who were to blame... Listen, the PS3 is a nightmare to develop for and has been compared to one of the levels of Hell by some developers. And while it is indeed the Developer's job to adapt to new fronteers, it doesn't help when Sony throws a couple hundred extra hurdles in their way in the form of exceedingly complicated new technologies. Even those who praise the PS3 admit its one too many generations ahead of its time for there to be anything in the way of an easy or approachable learning curve for developers. You can blame the developers all you want but its Sony whose geting shafted for their own ambition and lack of consideration for the progression of developers from one generation to the next (or in this case, the one after).

- Okay, fault Sony for not 100% BC since they did use that as a pro of getting a PS3, but at least it's there and it's being updated. Unless I'm mistaken, the 360 requires updates for more titles to work as well. While I'm not going to fault that (unless there is a game that I loved that wont work), I can't understand how expanding that list is a bad thing. For the controllers, correct me if I'm wrong, but do the Xbox controllers and memory card units work on the 360 (cause I have no idea)? It's not as bad as you think for the PS3, I recently bought the memory card and Pelican PS2 adaptor and they work nicely (the PS2 adapter works on my PC too since it emulates the Sixaxis and I have the driver for the Sixaxis). Oh, and the PS2 adapter saves me $50 too (though no motion control) till a rumble controller comes out since Sony and Immursion have made up. Not only that, the memory card adaptor was finially worth getting after the 1.8 update because now I can save my data back onto the PS1/2 memory cards to take to friend's houses. Speaking of USB ports, there are 4 ports on the front, that's pretty convienent if you want to compare the console to a computer since I have to get behind my desk to get to my USB ports for anything bigger than a USB storage device or controller (long term usage that is).

I'm not comparing it to the 360 though as if the 360 was the better of the two. I think the 360 is the most pathetic excuse of a console when it comes to reverse compatibility. The point still stands though that the Ps3 still isn't 100% reverse compatbile and the fact it needs upgrades to do what it should of done out of the box is just insult to injury. If the Wii could do it right, why couldn't they? The UK PS3 isn't even reverse compatible at all. USB ports are nice and convenient but it doesn't change the fact they failed to put ports for the PS1/PS2 peripherals on such a hulking beast when Nintendo was able to manage it with the tiny Wii.

Are you seriously telling me the PS3 doesn't even have a rumble capable controller right now?

-Well I recall Xbox 360 loyal starting to say that the PS3 can't rely on MGS4 and FFXIII alone when somebody would mention those two games. So why is that bad that people are looking foward to more than just those two games?

Because those two games were once the two main driving points of the "Sony is worth getting" argument, and for them to be just dropped over night like they never existed as a selling point is just a tad suspicious the second somewhat tangible evidence arises that one of those two titles doesn't have a secure future as PS3 exclusive. We've only been listening to people brag about MGS4 and FFXIII for six months now, don't act like something better came along and no one cares about them anymore, Gran Turismo 5 wasn't exactly a secret this whole time. Don't try and play innocent here, you know as well as I do this is a case of the Sony fans losing the nerve to brag about any title that isn't a Sony 1st or 2nd party exclusive anymore. And while there is no solid proof either MGS4 or FFXIII won't stay PS3 exclusives, Sony fans have seen enough exclusives lost to know better.

-But then that bodes the question, $500 for just a blu-ray player or $600 (hopefully soon to be less) for a blu-ray player and a media machine.

 

The fact of the matter is, the PS3 is as it stands now the best deal it will ever be as a Blu-Ray player. Blu-Ray players will drop in price much faster than the PS3 can and even with a price cut the PS3 will only delay the end of its appeal as a cheap Blu-Ray player.

 


 


 I'm sorry, but thats the biggest load of rubbish I've heard for a long time. You know what, I own a UK PS3, and the only game that didn't work on it, was StarWars Battlefront II, which now works thanks to a firmware update. And also I'd rather have emulation beacause it means the PS3 hardware itself is running the game, which means GT4s -and several other games- biggest problem loading times, now are cut to a few seconds, if not absent. Also, it supports upscaling for an HD TV. On top of that, I can't believe about this complaint that you have to buy a memory card adaptor, does it cost 100s of dollars or something in the US? Here in the UK its only a few quid, and that's the price you'd have to pay for a classic controller for the Wii, if not less; as you can use the SIXAXIS with the PS2 games! Also this complaint about rumble is pretty ridiculous aswell. It wasn't as if the DUALSHOCK's rumble was sophisticated, it was rather crude, just a spinning half circle, so it's not as if it added a lot to the game. The only time rumble could add a lot to any game would really be a driving game, with a steering wheel, and if you wheels hit something then the steering wheel could react and turn, ie force feedback, but apart from that it's not as if its a major issue.



One person's experience or opinion never shows the general consensus

PSN ID: Tispower

MSN: tispower1@hotmail.co.uk

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Tispower said:
Gballzack said:
IllegalPaladin said:

Gballzack, I don't fully agree with some of your points.

-Of course, but that's the developers job. However, I don't believe Nintendo when they say that with power, all your games will suck. Again, it's the developers job to harness that power. Think Valve's Source engine and Epic's Unreal engine, as time goes on, more additions and fixes improve on that powerful software.

So in otherwords a console such as the Atari Jaguar didn't fail, it was the Developers who failed? It had nothing to do with the fact that the Jaguar was infamously difficult to develop for, it was the Developers who were to blame... Listen, the PS3 is a nightmare to develop for and has been compared to one of the levels of Hell by some developers. And while it is indeed the Developer's job to adapt to new fronteers, it doesn't help when Sony throws a couple hundred extra hurdles in their way in the form of exceedingly complicated new technologies. Even those who praise the PS3 admit its one too many generations ahead of its time for there to be anything in the way of an easy or approachable learning curve for developers. You can blame the developers all you want but its Sony whose geting shafted for their own ambition and lack of consideration for the progression of developers from one generation to the next (or in this case, the one after).

- Okay, fault Sony for not 100% BC since they did use that as a pro of getting a PS3, but at least it's there and it's being updated. Unless I'm mistaken, the 360 requires updates for more titles to work as well. While I'm not going to fault that (unless there is a game that I loved that wont work), I can't understand how expanding that list is a bad thing. For the controllers, correct me if I'm wrong, but do the Xbox controllers and memory card units work on the 360 (cause I have no idea)? It's not as bad as you think for the PS3, I recently bought the memory card and Pelican PS2 adaptor and they work nicely (the PS2 adapter works on my PC too since it emulates the Sixaxis and I have the driver for the Sixaxis). Oh, and the PS2 adapter saves me $50 too (though no motion control) till a rumble controller comes out since Sony and Immursion have made up. Not only that, the memory card adaptor was finially worth getting after the 1.8 update because now I can save my data back onto the PS1/2 memory cards to take to friend's houses. Speaking of USB ports, there are 4 ports on the front, that's pretty convienent if you want to compare the console to a computer since I have to get behind my desk to get to my USB ports for anything bigger than a USB storage device or controller (long term usage that is).

I'm not comparing it to the 360 though as if the 360 was the better of the two. I think the 360 is the most pathetic excuse of a console when it comes to reverse compatibility. The point still stands though that the Ps3 still isn't 100% reverse compatbile and the fact it needs upgrades to do what it should of done out of the box is just insult to injury. If the Wii could do it right, why couldn't they? The UK PS3 isn't even reverse compatible at all. USB ports are nice and convenient but it doesn't change the fact they failed to put ports for the PS1/PS2 peripherals on such a hulking beast when Nintendo was able to manage it with the tiny Wii.

Are you seriously telling me the PS3 doesn't even have a rumble capable controller right now?

-Well I recall Xbox 360 loyal starting to say that the PS3 can't rely on MGS4 and FFXIII alone when somebody would mention those two games. So why is that bad that people are looking foward to more than just those two games?

Because those two games were once the two main driving points of the "Sony is worth getting" argument, and for them to be just dropped over night like they never existed as a selling point is just a tad suspicious the second somewhat tangible evidence arises that one of those two titles doesn't have a secure future as PS3 exclusive. We've only been listening to people brag about MGS4 and FFXIII for six months now, don't act like something better came along and no one cares about them anymore, Gran Turismo 5 wasn't exactly a secret this whole time. Don't try and play innocent here, you know as well as I do this is a case of the Sony fans losing the nerve to brag about any title that isn't a Sony 1st or 2nd party exclusive anymore. And while there is no solid proof either MGS4 or FFXIII won't stay PS3 exclusives, Sony fans have seen enough exclusives lost to know better.

-But then that bodes the question, $500 for just a blu-ray player or $600 (hopefully soon to be less) for a blu-ray player and a media machine.

 

The fact of the matter is, the PS3 is as it stands now the best deal it will ever be as a Blu-Ray player. Blu-Ray players will drop in price much faster than the PS3 can and even with a price cut the PS3 will only delay the end of its appeal as a cheap Blu-Ray player.

 


 


 I'm sorry, but thats the biggest load of rubbish I've heard for a long time. You know what, I own a UK PS3, and the only game that didn't work on it, was StarWars Battlefront II, which now works thanks to a firmware update. And also I'd rather have emulation beacause it means the PS3 hardware itself is running the game, which means GT4s -and several other games- biggest problem loading times, now are cut to a few seconds, if not absent. Also, it supports upscaling for an HD TV. On top of that, I can't believe about this complaint that you have to buy a memory card adaptor, does it cost 100s of dollars or something in the US? Here in the UK its only a few quid, and that's the price you'd have to pay for a classic controller for the Wii, if not less; as you can use the SIXAXIS with the PS2 games! Also this complaint about rumble is pretty ridiculous aswell. It wasn't as if the DUALSHOCK's rumble was sophisticated, it was rather crude, just a spinning half circle, so it's not as if it added a lot to the game. The only time rumble could add a lot to any game would really be a driving game, with a steering wheel, and if you wheels hit something then the steering wheel could react and turn, ie force feedback, but apart from that it's not as if its a major issue.


Emulation still isn't reverse compatibility, its emulation, there's a difference. and the fact of the matter is you still got shanked. Pitty the PS3 can't be bought working 100%, I've never heard of a game console before that required updates to make it do what it should have done out of the box. And please don't brag about the six-axis, there's nothing to brag about, you don't even have rumble features for god's sake. Funny now that Sony no longer has the dual shock you're trying to act like it wasn't that good in the first place, lol. Is there anything you won't justify after the fact? I'm sure if they took out the ability to play PS1 and PS2 games altogether you'd find an excuse for that too.



This list sucks, surely you could've come up with a better list yourself, half the people who don't even like the PS3 have come in here and done better.

And this point makes no sense:
"If only one system rules, we'd have a monopoly and see game prices skyrocket. Right now, competition is driving prices down and encouraging quality game production."

Last-gen we had a near monopoly and had lots of great quality games on one system for pretty cheap and didn't have to buy multiple systems -- game prices on the PS2 started at $50 and ended at $50 (often $40), no prices skyrocketing there. This gen we have two very competitive systems with 360 and PS3 and what happened? The games are largely crap so far, the software costs went up 20%, the hardware costs went up 50%-100%. Exactly how is competition keeping prices down and making for better games?



My reasons (as many as I can think of):

  1. It's a PlayStation (back-ward compat and love of Sony)
  2. Jak and Daxter (I know that it's not been confirmed, but Evan Wells, the head of Naughty Dog said that they would want to do it after Uncharted) and the other major Sony franchises that I could not live without
  3. Sony are learning and improving the PS3 (firmware updates)
  4. PSN expanding and improving (same sort of thing as 3)
  5. Uncharted: Drake's Fortune
  6. Rumours of PES 7 being better on PS3
  7. Soon to have a rumbling SIXAXIS (I think that a wireless DualShock would be the perfect controller)
  8. Warhawk (my ideal game apart from it being online, my favourite genre: a third person vehicular based action shooter)
  9. Blu-ray
  10. HD-ity
  11. FF XIII
  12. Killzone 2, Haze, Lair, Heavenly Sword, MotorStorm 2, Resistance 2 (other exclusives which I can't be bothered to name (N.B. FF and UDF are too specialy to come into this category))
  13. I only have 2 reasons (games) to buy the 360: 1. Halo 3, 2. Ace Combat 6 (which is actually only a timed exclusive)
  14. PSP remote play
  15. 60GB hard drive
  16. Wi-fi built in
  17. Futureproof
  18. Free online
  19. HDMI
  20. It's so shiny and it feels powerful
  21. Buit in card readers


add me

URNotE said:

  • 10. You simply have to give it some more time.
  • 09. You cannot deny the power of the cell processor. I predict we will start seeing a great difference between PS3 performance and Xbox 360 performance as the next generation gets into full swing.
  • 08. Backward compatibility with the PS2 collection (one of the best console collections in history I might add).
  • 07. The price will eventually drop. I can’t say when, but it’s unavoidable.
  • 06. Can anyone say “Gran Turismo 5’?
  • 05. The PS3 is embracing the future of Bluetooth technology.
  • 04. PlayStation Home
  • 03. If Blu-Ray wins the next generation movie battle, the PS3 makes for a cheap Blu-Ray player
  • 02. Unchartered: Drake’s Fortune. This could be the big hit they are waiting for.
  • 01. Can anyone say “Gran Turismo 5’?

10 - Competition is always a good thing so I am pro its survival. We have already seen what happens when 1 company dominates and it isnt pretty.

9 - The cell processor is just different... it sacrifices some areas in favor of others. The PS3 and 360 are equivalent overall. The cell processor was completely not needed and caused delays and extra costs and all they did was "re-invent the wheel."

8 - Except that it is all by emulators... and many games do not work. Regardless all current systems have backward compatibility and all have good games but honestly, most people have the old consoles anyway so this is not a big deal although it is definitly a nice feature.

7 - Price needs to be around $300 imho if it ever wants to catch up to anyone.

6 - Based on older games, Forza would be my choice. I love the customization options and other features. As far as races go... they are about quivalent. For pure racing fun however, you cannot beat Nintendo racing games. I would say for solo play Forza is king. For multiplayer it has to be a Nintendo game.

5 - Bluetooth is ancient technology... nothing new here.

4 - Online consoles will always suck. Communication is too limited unless you use a keyboard but if youre going to do that, might as well play a much higher quality PC game... and yes you can plug your PC into that HD TV. I havent seen a system without TV out in almost a decade and they existed even back in the 486 days using e-isa cards.

3 - PS3 will be much too expensive even if BR somehow overtakes traditional DVD which is highly unlikely. Players need to be around the $50-$150 to become mainstream.

2 - Never heard of it... and I doubt many others have either.

1 - see #6



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Gballzack said:
 

Emulation still isn't reverse compatibility, its emulation, there's a difference. and the fact of the matter is you still got shanked. Pitty the PS3 can't be bought working 100%, I've never heard of a game console before that required updates to make it do what it should have done out of the box. And please don't brag about the six-axis, there's nothing to brag about, you don't even have rumble features for god's sake. Funny now that Sony no longer has the dual shock you're trying to act like it wasn't that good in the first place, lol. Is there anything you won't justify after the fact? I'm sure if they took out the ability to play PS1 and PS2 games altogether you'd find an excuse for that too.


The point was that you said it wasn't backwards compatible *at all*, which is totally incorrect. Also,I never remember anyone playing and saying "Hey this rumble is awesome, what a totally cool experience!"... Seriously, haveyou never seen a translucentDUALSHOCK, seriously, it was literally a spinning semi-circle. Also I fail to see what is wrong with firmware updates, especially now many people have broadband. Also, the PSP has had firmware updates for years, as have PCs.



One person's experience or opinion never shows the general consensus

PSN ID: Tispower

MSN: tispower1@hotmail.co.uk

Apart from being used to playing PC games, the dualshock's rumble is the big reason why it hasn't bothered me a whole lot that the Sixaxis doesn't have rumble. I like how rumble is more subtle in the 360 controller and I hope that when they do add rumble in the Sixaxis, it's more like the 360 controller than the Dualshock 2. I enjoy rumble, but the rumble in the PS2 controllers was a bit overkill, especially when you want to play something like Final Fantasy X and summon an Aeon or something like that.

About the updates, it's something that could help promote blu-ray's space by doing something PC games have done for years. I remember seeing a site that reported that apparently the PS3's OS took up less memory than the dev kits, meaning that it has been made more efficient. One of the comments I saw about that was along the lines of "Developers would still have to program for the lowest denominator". This isn't true as the most important updates that would effect the games could be included on the games that require them, have the 1.8 update included on games that would require the features of the 1.8 update just as DirectX and video card drivers are included with PC games to also be installed if you don't have the required version.

Being able to update the consoles to add in new features and such is a great improvement so I can't really see how that's a flaw except for maybe saying that a game could be playtested less since they can just release a patch at any time.



Tispower said:
Gballzack said:
 

Emulation still isn't reverse compatibility, its emulation, there's a difference. and the fact of the matter is you still got shanked. Pitty the PS3 can't be bought working 100%, I've never heard of a game console before that required updates to make it do what it should have done out of the box. And please don't brag about the six-axis, there's nothing to brag about, you don't even have rumble features for god's sake. Funny now that Sony no longer has the dual shock you're trying to act like it wasn't that good in the first place, lol. Is there anything you won't justify after the fact? I'm sure if they took out the ability to play PS1 and PS2 games altogether you'd find an excuse for that too.


The point was that you said it wasn't backwards compatible *at all*, which is totally incorrect. Also,I never remember anyone playing and saying "Hey this rumble is awesome, what a totally cool experience!"... Seriously, haveyou never seen a translucentDUALSHOCK, seriously, it was literally a spinning semi-circle. Also I fail to see what is wrong with firmware updates, especially now many people have broadband. Also, the PSP has had firmware updates for years, as have PCs.

 

No, Emulation isn't Reverse Compatibility, it produces a similar result but they're two very different functions. Seriously if they are the same thing why did Sony even bother putting the chip in the US and Japanese versions of the PS3. Arguing semantics doesn't change that you're still emulating the game and not playing the game disc.

As for Dualshock, Its kind of sad to push motion sensing abilities as pathetic as the Six Axis then pretend something like rumble doesn't matter. Don't act like Sony left out Dualshock because it wasn't needed, this is the result of Sony refusing to pay the man who developed Dual Shock which Sony fought to the bitter end in court despite obviously being in the wrong and still lost. Just a spinning semi-circle? What do you want it to be? A live gerbil in your controller? You're just making excuses after the fact. Do you not remember the big ass deal Sony made about Dualshock when it came out? Games were literally remade to encompass the feature. Don't try and play it down.

 



The list is pathetic but so many posters have shot down its shortcomings that I'll just say that about it.

I think it's hilarious that Sony fanboys who were quite happy when Sony dominated the market have suddenly decided splitting the market evenly is the best route now that 33% marketshare for the PS3 is at best a feavered dream. Worried the PS3's small user base will limit access to 3rd party games? Then buy a Wii and/or 360, if you can afford to blow $600 on a video game system another $250-650 shouldn't be a concern.

The other hilarious argument Sony fanboys make is the "future proof" one. So when Cartman is unfrozen in the 25th Century trying to get a Wii, they will still be playing PS3's? Matt and Trey were a little smarter about that, if people are still playing recognizable video games then, none of our systems will even connect to whatever acts as a TV. That's of course an extreme example, but PC's were already more powerful than the PS3 when it launched and are at least twice as powerful today. In 2010 or 2011 the Super Wii can be a far more powerful system for $250 than the PS3 (which will probably be less than the PS3's price then).

Even if the Super Wii is less powerful it doesn't take into account possible architectual changes. Nintendo twice before (with the SNES and GCN) changed their console's design to be more efficient with its power. Both times the change was copied by its competitors next time round. Simply put, the PS3 was designed as the most powerful machine possible with 2005 technology and architecture, it will be far outclassed by 2009 (by PC's directly and by the Super Wii and 720 indirectly).

The only thing that makes a console "future proof" is dominating the previous generation (inasmuch as surviving a decade is "future proof"). The NES with 1982/3 technology was still doing well over 10 years later. Same with the PS1 and now/soon PS2. If any of the current systems can rocket to a similar level of market dominance it will be relatively "future proof". I think all we can say with certainty right now is that system won't be the PS3.



The fact that this thread exists shows what deep shit sony is in.



Leo-j said: If a dvd for a pc game holds what? Crysis at 3000p or something, why in the world cant a blu-ray disc do the same?

ssj12 said: Player specific decoders are nothing more than specialized GPUs. Gran Turismo is the trust driving simulator of them all. 

"Why do they call it the xbox 360? Because when you see it, you'll turn 360 degrees and walk away"