Entroper said: elprincipe said: I don't think you read quite carefully enough what I wrote. I said IF what is said about global warming is true, people's lives are already in danger from what's already occurred. It is YOUR viewpoint, not mine, that that is close to fact and beyond a reasonable doubt. Note this doesn't mean, as you state, that I somehow support increasing pollution or something. That is a cowardly and ignorant attack.
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You say: "If what has been said is 100% true, people's lives are already in grave danger because of this and cutting back emissions to 1990 levels is not going to change that in any meaningful way." The alternative to cutting back emissions is not cutting back emissions, and allowing them to continue to increase. Your statement seems to imply that since we can't undo the damage, why bother trying? I didn't mean it as "a cowardly and ignorant attack," and I'm not trying to say you support pollution. But the trend is an increase in emissions. I'm saying even if we can't undo the last 100 years of emissions, let's not add to the problem. If I'm still grossly misinterpreting you, I apologize; it's not my intention to twist your words. The other problem, I think, stems from your last sentence. I don't mean my problem with you, specifically; I mean the reason that society at large seems unwilling to change. "We know temperatures are increasing, but our understanding of why they are increasing is not good enough in my view, therefore we should be careful about proposing drastic measures that cause an awful lot of pain to an awful lot of people." Converting to renewable sources of energy is not going to cause an awful lot of pain to an awful lot of people. It's going to cause a few companies that make a lot of money to go out of business -- an awful lot of pain to a few people. For the rest of us, we're going to be much better off due to a stronger economy that isn't dependent on foreign and depletable sources of energy. Even if we aren't causing global warming by burning oil, there is a finite supply of oil on this planet. Our economy will be much better off if we have a renewable energy infrastructure in place before the next oil crisis, and building that infrastructure will create at least as many jobs as are displaced in oil refineries. Again, see my previous post on economic growth. |
What you are not understanding is that I'm not advocating drastically cutting back emissions. That is what you are advocating. IF humans are causing global warming, we're going to have to do a heck of a lot more than Kyoto to do something about it. Since personally I don't see any conclusive evidence that anybody's life is at risk from this, I'm not advocating a fundamental economic change for the entire world. That is your argument. But don't argue that following Kyoto or something is going to make it better; we're going to have to do a lot more than that to have any significant effect, and that's only after what supposed damage has been done occurs.
As for your last argument, I think everyone (except maybe the oil/coal/gas companies) would like to switch to renewable energy. The problem is that we can't simply wave a magic wand and do that. There is a lot of research being done and I think that's wonderful. If fusion or wind power could solve our energy needs tomorrow, I think just about everyone would say great. But until then, unless our entire society reevaluates the way it does just about everything in relation to energy (and yes, it will cause considerable pain for just about everyone, since just about everyone uses energy), we are going to use non-renewable sources. Those are just the facts.
Just wanted to say this because I thought that this fact I read today was pretty amazing: if we could harness 1% (yes, ONE percent) of the energy of the Jet Stream, it would provide enough energy for everyone on Earth. Natural forces are amazing things. Now we just need some amazingly innovative people to figure out how to harness this kind of awesome power!