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Parokki... I see your referance to the point that "Christianity's primary spreading didn't occur by the sword". In that case, I cannot think of any religion that did as most religions are based upon a group of moral beliefs.

If though, you consider that reclaiming holy land invoves killing (or converting) all of the non-belivers. And this greatly increased the influence, scope and power of the church. Then it appears that violence was used to spread the word of god. And while it was not primarily founded by violence, it is significantly more powerful because of it.



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footbag said:
Hitler wasn't an aetheist...

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

Much of the opposition to the eugenic movement came from German Christians. Although Hitler was baptized a Catholic, he was never excommunicated, and evidently 'considered himself a good Roman Catholic' as a young man, and at times used religious language. He clearly had strong, even vociferous, anti-Christian feelings as an adult, as did probably most Nazi party leaders. As a consummate politician, though, he openly tried to exploit the church. Hitler once revealed his attitude toward Christianity when he bluntly stated that religion is an:

... organized lie [that] must be smashed. The State must remain the absolute master. When I was younger, I thought it was necessary to set about [destroying religion] with dynamite. I've since realized there's room for a little subtlety ... The final state must be . in St. Peter's Chair, a senile officiant; facing him a few sinister old women . The young and healthy are on our side . it's impossible to eternally hold humanity in bondage and lies ... [It] was only between the sixth and eighth centuries that Christianity was imposed upon our peoples ... Our peoples had previously succeeded in living all right without this religion. I have six divisions of SS men absolutely indifferent in matters of religion. It doesn't prevent them from going to their death with serenity in their souls.'

The Nazi party viewed Darwinism and Christianity as polar opposites. Milner said of Germany's father of evolution, Ernst Haeckel, that in his Natural History of Creation he argued that 'the church with its morality of love and charity is an effete fraud, a perversion of the natural order'. A major reason why Haeckel concluded this was because Christianity:

' ... makes no distinction of race or of color; it seeks to break down all racial barriers. In this respect the hand of Christianity is against that of Nature, for are not the races of mankind the evolutionary harvest which Nature has toiled through long ages to produce? May we not say, then, that Christianity is anti-evolutionary in its aim?'



mrstickball said:

Unlike other religions, Christianity's primary spreading didn't occur by the sword, as many other religions did, but through peaceful means in despite of incredible resistance during Nero's reign, and the reign of other certainly anti-Christian kings and emperors of the time. To me, a strong proof that in the face of incredible opposition, established the worlds largest religion and set of beliefs.



The Spainards that arrived in the new world had the permission and the instructions from the Pope, there by the word of God himself, to convert by any means necessary any pagans that they encountered. They successfully destroyed two entire civilizations and many different cultures. Expeditions and settlers to North America did the same, and enjoyed using God to justify the eradication of Native Americans, though greed and fear or hatred of those unknown is far more likely.

Even Hitler may have been given the "thumbs up" by Pope Pius XII(this is still being debated)

I recommend that everyone follow their own beliefs, I just do not have any faith in "organized religion." Like any other institution it seems to oft times have its own agenda.



Yes, and his name is Jehovah. If there's no God, who made everything?



a.l.e.x59 said:
Yes, and his name is Jehovah. If there's no God, who made everything?

Well by that logic who made God?



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bugmenot said:
I believe in systems.

In either case I believe that life has no meaning beyond what we choose for it.

Either the universe is ordered (follows deterministic rules) in which case our destiny is predefined in which case we have no free will and nothing we decide makes an actual difference,

or

the universe is chaotic (does not follow any physical rules) in which case the universe is a pointless exercise and my free will has no purpose.

Combinations invariably result in a chaotic universe.

Either way it's depressing, so I work towards achieving some sort of immortality in hopes of having the time to find satisfying answers.

Personally I have a particularly negative opinion of concepts of Heaven and Hell: Either God (should it exist) hasn't given us free will in which case there's no point in punishing puppets, or we have free will, in which case punishing a sinner after giving him the ability to sin is cruel, unusual and a bit of a joke.

But hey, that's just me. If I'm wrong, I guess that means I'll have to pay for it.

 Thank God for existentialism, lol

And Hitler, like many Nazis, was very involved with the occult. Besides, the only difference between modern muderers(Stalin), and the earlier, religiously driven killers is the effectivness of their weapons. Imagine the Spanish Inquisition if the Christians had gas chambers and machine guns. However, I think its folly to assign religion or atheism as the root of genocide and the like. People are responsible for such actions, and thats the real source of the problem, wether it be religion as a justification or anti-religion as the same.

BTW, no one has mentioned the religious justifcations for slavery and the colonization of Africa



Leo-j said: If a dvd for a pc game holds what? Crysis at 3000p or something, why in the world cant a blu-ray disc do the same?

ssj12 said: Player specific decoders are nothing more than specialized GPUs. Gran Turismo is the trust driving simulator of them all. 

"Why do they call it the xbox 360? Because when you see it, you'll turn 360 degrees and walk away" 

This thread could end really badly, don't try to force your beliefs on other people...



Thanks to Blacksaber for the sig!

Poseidon said:
footbag said:
Hitler wasn't an aetheist...

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

Much of the opposition to the eugenic movement came from German Christians. Although Hitler was baptized a Catholic, he was never excommunicated, and evidently 'considered himself a good Roman Catholic' as a young man, and at times used religious language. He clearly had strong, even vociferous, anti-Christian feelings as an adult, as did probably most Nazi party leaders. As a consummate politician, though, he openly tried to exploit the church. Hitler once revealed his attitude toward Christianity when he bluntly stated that religion is an:

' ... organized lie [that] must be smashed. The State must remain the absolute master. When I was younger, I thought it was necessary to set about [destroying religion] with dynamite. I've since realized there's room for a little subtlety ... The final state must be . in St. Peter's Chair, a senile officiant; facing him a few sinister old women . The young and healthy are on our side . it's impossible to eternally hold humanity in bondage and lies ... [It] was only between the sixth and eighth centuries that Christianity was imposed upon our peoples ... Our peoples had previously succeeded in living all right without this religion. I have six divisions of SS men absolutely indifferent in matters of religion. It doesn't prevent them from going to their death with serenity in their souls.'

The Nazi party viewed Darwinism and Christianity as polar opposites. Milner said of Germany's father of evolution, Ernst Haeckel, that in his Natural History of Creation he argued that 'the church with its morality of love and charity is an effete fraud, a perversion of the natural order'. A major reason why Haeckel concluded this was because Christianity:

' ... makes no distinction of race or of color; it seeks to break down all racial barriers. In this respect the hand of Christianity is against that of Nature, for are not the races of mankind the evolutionary harvest which Nature has toiled through long ages to produce? May we not say, then, that Christianity is anti-evolutionary in its aim?'


 Upon further reading I would have to say that this is debatable.  While Hitler did say things that seemed anti-judeo-christian.  He never refrained from using the lord or creator as his justification for killing jews.  The quote I used above was spoken as late as 1938.  His soldiers wore belts that  stated "god is with us".  He acknowledged cristianity as Germany's religion and upon his political ascent, required school children to recite prayers to Jesus.

  All of the conflicting info may be difficult to make sense of, but there is one certain...   Hitler was crazy and opportunistic.  Perhaps he knew and liked the power of religion, even if he himself didn't belive in god.



Guys, I'm really happy with the way this thread is going. Please keep it clear and instructive



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sieanr said:

BTW, no one has mentioned the religious justifcations for slavery and the colonization of Africa


And no one mentioned the scientific justification for them as well, the latter being more heavily geared towards science.

@footbag: Yes, those are also true, but he did base most of his ideology off of Nietzsche, who was just plain 'ol anti-religion. Later along, there were changes in Nazi Germany such as Nazi children being baptized, not under God but under Hitler. Also, various priests were told to equate God with Hitler. Numerous weddings were conducted in which neither God nor Jesus were mentioned in the proceedings, only that the union should benefit the "fatherland."