Another Perfect score for MGS4 by PSM

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TheRealMafoo said:
jalsonmi said:

MGS: 5.59m sales on an install base of 100m
MGS2: 5.56m sales on an install base of 120m
MGS3: 3.97m sales on an install base of 120m
GTAIII: 11.6m sales on an install base of 120m
GTA:VC: 14.2m sales on an install base of 120m
GTA:SA: 17.1m sales on an install base of 120m
GTAIV: 8.1m sales (so far) on an install base of 31.7m (so far)
Halo: 6.43m sales on an install base of 24m
Halo 2: 8.46m sales on an install base of 24m
Halo 3: 7.82m sales (so far) on an install base of 19m (so far)

While I agree MGS is not going to sell like Halo or GTA (for a Sony exclusive, that's GT's job), I think the numbers above are a little misleading.

When MGS came out, there were not 100m PS1's, and when MGS2 came out, there were not 120 million PS2's


Fair enough, but when people pick up a system, do they not often pick up previously released games that appeal to them? Hence games having legs? And shouldn't your point be somewhat muted by the fact that MGS3 had more PS2s out when it came out, yet sold the wort of the three? Obviously there are other reasons for that, but MGS3 is just as well thought of as the other two in most circles, at least as far as I know. I think it's the best of the three.

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great score for a great game

FishyJoe said:
Didn't they give Haze a 9/10?

No. They haven't reviewed Haze yet. I got this issue like two weeks ago.

Besides, they Warhawk a freaking 6.5!

Rock_on_2008 said:
SpartanFX said:
bbsin said:
Didn't PSM give warhawk a really low grade? or was that another magazine?
either way, I don't recall PSM giving Haze a 9/10 much less reviewing it yet. But from what I can tell, PSM editors are not afraid to give PS3 exclusives (aswell as Sony published games) low scores.

yea they gave warhawk 6.5 /10


and no they haven't reviewed haze yet


WarHawk 6.5/10 is not bad. They must of complained about WarHawk being solely online and too hard for novices. Getting pwned online straight away would turn people off.

MGS 4 will be a much better game than GTA IV.

6.5/10 for warhawk is bad, the far majority of all the scores were higher than 7.9/10. There are plently of games that are online and/or too hard for novices but faired better. But none of that would matter for warhawk since there IS a game filter or custom matching making. People knew Warhawk was an online only game (that isn't full priced), there's no reason to buther the game for for not being something that it's not.

Either way, Warhawk's 6.5/10 and Lair's 5/10 shows that PSM WILL rip a game apart even if it's exclusive or Sony first party.

MGS: 5.59m sales on an install base of 100m
MGS2: 5.56m sales on an install base of 120m
MGS3: 3.97m sales on an install base of 120m

I fail to see why the install base argument is still valid. MGS did not launch when the PS1's install base was 100m, MGS2 did not launch when the PS2's install base was 120m, and MGS3 probably had more than 2-3 times the install base of MGS2 but sold LESS. One half of the sales come from Launch numbers the other half comes from sales over time whether it's new console owners or old console owners. MGS4's success should only be compared to the attach rate of the previous MGS games during launch. The legs of the game are impossible to compare with previous games since no one knows how far the install base of the PS3 will go.

TheRealMafoo said:
starcraft said:
TheRealMafoo said:

I guess your right, I made a mistake. I thought you were calling MGS a niche game, but being we both know it can be played as a shooter, it's a lot more then a stealth game.

So you were saying one of the ways it can be played is in a market dominated my MGS... you made no reference to it's appeal in the other markets it's in.

Fair enough.

Actually I referred to it as a stealth shooter earlier in the thread. I was actually worried about people attacking me for that, because whenever people claim MGS4 is a shooter in the "which console is a shooter" debate, Sony fans shoot them down.

I dont think shooter fans would pick MGS4 over Gears of War or Halo 3 or CoD4 for their shooter-fix generally speaking. Stealth as a genre is declining, but as I said, it remains dominated, more than ever, by MGS4.


So I originally read your post to imply that you feel MGS only appeals to Stealth Shooter fans, and you said I was wrong. Then after I apologize, you reiterate that you think MGS only appeals to stealth shooter fans.

So that we are on the same page, let me ask you some quick yes/no questions.

  1. Do you think MGS appeals to more then Stealth Shooter fans?
  2. Do you you think stealth shooter games now fall into a niche market?
  3. Do you you think BioShock appeals to a wide audience?


That should clear up the confusion :)

1.  I consider stealth and shooter to be two seperate genres.  MGS4 is primarily stealth.  It uses guns yes, but so does Rachet and Clank (hell even Mario has cannons).  Essentially, MGS is a stealth game that appeals to stealth fans.  It will of course attract some people that are fans of shooters, but then so did Hour of Victory, so anything with guns can capture a small piece of the shooter audience.  I believe that the stealth genre at large is shrinking in terms of its influence, but MGS practically owns the genre now, which bodes well for the 4th installment.

2.  Once again there are not many stealth games out there anymore (even though most shooters incorporate a stealth section these days (CoD4, GeoW)), so I do consider the market at large to be more and more niche as time progresses.  As I said above though, MGS in-and-of-itself cannot be considered niche, as it owns the market with this genre.

3.  I didn't bring Bioshock up, and I don't think it is that relevant really.  It is certainly a more conventional shooter (at least compared to MGS4, as Bioshock isn't exactly conventional), but this also means it faces far more competition than MGS4 does.  It is often said that Splinter Cell: Conviction (Which could now wait until 2010) is Microsoft's answer to MGS4.  The truth is, Splinter Cell is the only competition to MGS4.  Bioshock may appeal to a more broad audience than MGS4, but that audience has far more product to look at than the stealth audience. 


starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

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MGS4 >> Bioshock

hardcore Proven famous hyped good IP
hardcore new good IP

this is obvious

(I m talking about sales/hype, not game quality)

Time to Work !

libellule said:
MGS4 >> Bioshock

hardcore Proven famous hyped good IP
hardcore new good IP

this is obvious

(I m talking about sales/hype, not game quality)
There is no question as to which title will sell more, we are discussing the fact that they fall into different genres and face different competition.


starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

this game will be succesful. i know people who HATE ps3, yet are getting it just for this game. all this talk about niche market, review scores and all that crap won't change that.

this game will sell better and faster than gt5:p at least.

I dont think you should really pay attention to previous MGS sales to conclude how MGS will sell... I think MGS4 will sell a lot better then its previous titles

Ive talked to so many people, and a lot of my friends are all looking forward to MGS4, who never even played a MGS game, and who are not even into Stealth shooters... So this is a first time pickup for them

Sure they might be disapointed when they realize its a different type of game then they were hoping (In case they were expecting a 3D Shooter type game), but the one key fact is, tons of people are new to the MGS franchise because of MGS4

I woudln't say this if I didn't meet so many people like this

So yea, basing numbers off previous MGS titles will get you to believe it will sell okay, but this isn't how it is anymore

A review of MGS4 comes in and 360 fanboys start licking Bioshock!


I hope my 360 doesn't RRoD
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