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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Second MGS4 review in -score 92 "story too complex"

Magnific0 on 20 May 2008

^sounds fair to me, as long as there are many maps and variety.



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shio on 20 May 2008
HappySqurriel said:
TheRealMafoo said:
HappySqurriel said:
Zucas said:
Story too complex? Oh come on similar reasons why they marked down on NMH. Said not understandable cause it was punk. Well if they'd fucking understand punk before passing judgement then there wouldn't be a problem. God I hate reviewers.

Complex stories are not necessarily a good or a bad thing, but depending on why they're complex may make it a good or a bad thing ...

In general, I tend to prefer simple plot lines where the complexity in the story comes from character development. As an example of what I mean, the story line of any of the Star Wars prequels is far more complicated than the stories of the original trillogy, but (in my opinion) the original trillogy is far better because the lack of complicated story details allowed characters to be developed fully.

Movies like Van Helsing and Wild Wild West often seem much more silly than movies with a similar tone, like the Mummy, mainly because their story is so complicated that it destroys any believeability.


yea, but movies like "LA Confidential" are far better because they are complex. It all depends on how they do it.


I don't disagree that when well done a complicated story can be great ... I won't get into it too much, but I have always felt that the "Great" storytelling in a lot of games like Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy is far closer to Van Helsing or Transformers than to good literature or movies.


Great storytelling in MGS and Final Fantasy?! Hahahahaha joke post must be

Grim Fandango and Planescape: Torment is great storytelling. MGS and FF are crap compared to them.

EDIT: oops sorry Happysquirrel, I can't believe how I misread your post so much... 



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libellule on 20 May 2008
HappySqurriel said:
libellule said:
HappySqurriel said:
Zucas said:
Story too complex? Oh come on similar reasons why they marked down on NMH. Said not understandable cause it was punk. Well if they'd fucking understand punk before passing judgement then there wouldn't be a problem. God I hate reviewers.

Complex stories are not necessarily a good or a bad thing, but depending on why they're complex may make it a good or a bad thing ...

In general, I tend to prefer simple plot lines where the complexity in the story comes from character development. As an example of what I mean, the story line of any of the Star Wars prequels is far more complicated than the stories of the original trillogy, but (in my opinion) the original trillogy is far better because the lack of complicated story details allowed characters to be developed fully.

Movies like Van Helsing and Wild Wild West often seem much more silly than movies with a similar tone, like the Mummy, mainly because their story is so complicated that it destroys any believeability.


==> huh ???  Why do you bring to us poor movie like WWW or VH ???
Seriously, ur next will be Transformer and 300 ?

 


Van Helsing was fresh in my memory because I watched the first 10 minutes of it on TV yesterday ...

At the time I was thinking about how the stupid convoluted plot would be eaten up by a lot of people had it been a videogame; a secret underground agency in the catholic church has developed weapons in order to hunt down unnatural beasts, and their greatest member (Van Helsing) is traveling to romania to battle Dracula to protect the gypsy princess.


==> EXCEPT I (and fans) expect more from a MGS game.
VH story will be ok for a shooter or an action game but there are some games where you want them to give u a bit more than just an epic story.

For example, MGS3 story was good and complex.


Time to Work !

libellule on 20 May 2008
shio said:
HappySqurriel said:
TheRealMafoo said:
HappySqurriel said:
Zucas said:
Story too complex? Oh come on similar reasons why they marked down on NMH. Said not understandable cause it was punk. Well if they'd fucking understand punk before passing judgement then there wouldn't be a problem. God I hate reviewers.

Complex stories are not necessarily a good or a bad thing, but depending on why they're complex may make it a good or a bad thing ...

In general, I tend to prefer simple plot lines where the complexity in the story comes from character development. As an example of what I mean, the story line of any of the Star Wars prequels is far more complicated than the stories of the original trillogy, but (in my opinion) the original trillogy is far better because the lack of complicated story details allowed characters to be developed fully.

Movies like Van Helsing and Wild Wild West often seem much more silly than movies with a similar tone, like the Mummy, mainly because their story is so complicated that it destroys any believeability.


yea, but movies like "LA Confidential" are far better because they are complex. It all depends on how they do it.


I don't disagree that when well done a complicated story can be great ... I won't get into it too much, but I have always felt that the "Great" storytelling in a lot of games like Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy is far closer to Van Helsing or Transformers than to good literature or movies.


Great storytelling in MGS and Final Fantasy?! Hahahahaha joke post must be

Grim Fandango and Planescape: Torment is great storytelling. MGS and FF are crap compared to them. 


==> +1 for Planescape



Time to Work !

rocketpig on 20 May 2008
TheRealMafoo said:
rocketpig said:
TheRealMafoo said:
HappySqurriel said:

I don't disagree that when well done a complicated story can be great ... I won't get into it too much, but I have always felt that the "Great" storytelling in a lot of games like Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy is far closer to Van Helsing or Transformers than to good literature or movies.


I agree there. I have yet to play a game that rivals a good movie. Mostly because of pace. The closest would be GTAIV, if you like movies like Goodfellas, or the the TV show The Sopranos.


I think Mass Effect had some of the best pacing for an open-ended story-driven game. It was just enough to make it somewhat believable while keeping it simple enough to not get in its own way.

The last three hours of that game are what I expect from a story-driven game. It ramps up and keeps going right until the end.


ME had a great story. But for some reason, it was a great video game story to me. Not the same feel I guess as something a little more gritty and seedy as GTAIV. GTAIV seemed like something that could be turned into a movie, and be successful. ME if turned into a movie, would just feel like a second rate sci-fi channel movie.

It's all opinion though :)


Very true. I have a real love/hate relationship with GTA's story. At times, it exudes brilliance in a Tarantino/Scorsece sort of way. Other times, I feel like I'm getting more Mafia! than I am Goodfellas. It's really all over the spectrum. Some parts are subtle and well-acted, others are downright laughable. Some of the plot choices (kill or not to kill) are welcome additions and help greatly with immersion but overall, there is very little consequence in the game and that bothers me quite a bit. It seems as if game developers still can't sort out how to tell a good story in an interactive medium and either abandon the story entirely in favor of choice (Oblivion) or they try to make a friggin' movie as a video game (MGS).

Anyway, I'm tangenting. I agree that ME wouldn't make as good a movie as GTAIV but since they're not movies, I'll give the nod to BioWare for more effectively working within the constraints of the medium as storytellers.

As I get through GTA, I'm pretty impressed with what Rockstar tried to do with the game. Unfortunately, as is the case with most video game stories, they still failed on multiple levels with lack of consequence, spurts of terrible acting and dialogue, and an over reliance on childish dick/gay jokes. 




Or check out my new webcomic: http://selfcentent.com/

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billy07 on 20 May 2008
shio said:
HappySqurriel said:
TheRealMafoo said:
HappySqurriel said:
Zucas said:
Story too complex? Oh come on similar reasons why they marked down on NMH. Said not understandable cause it was punk. Well if they'd fucking understand punk before passing judgement then there wouldn't be a problem. God I hate reviewers.

Complex stories are not necessarily a good or a bad thing, but depending on why they're complex may make it a good or a bad thing ...

In general, I tend to prefer simple plot lines where the complexity in the story comes from character development. As an example of what I mean, the story line of any of the Star Wars prequels is far more complicated than the stories of the original trillogy, but (in my opinion) the original trillogy is far better because the lack of complicated story details allowed characters to be developed fully.

Movies like Van Helsing and Wild Wild West often seem much more silly than movies with a similar tone, like the Mummy, mainly because their story is so complicated that it destroys any believeability.


yea, but movies like "LA Confidential" are far better because they are complex. It all depends on how they do it.


I don't disagree that when well done a complicated story can be great ... I won't get into it too much, but I have always felt that the "Great" storytelling in a lot of games like Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy is far closer to Van Helsing or Transformers than to good literature or movies.


Great storytelling in MGS and Final Fantasy?! Hahahahaha joke post must be

Grim Fandango and Planescape: Torment is great storytelling. MGS and FF are crap compared to them.


 I've played and finished Planescape torment and the story is overrated. The writing is superb but nowhere are the philosophical allusions in the game as well developed as they are in MGS2. They touch upon certain subjects but don't examine them much beyond initial mentioning. MGS2 also redefines VG storytelling with arguably the first post modern plot in the industry.

 

And to whoever said MGS3's plot was complex, LOL. 



shio on 20 May 2008
billy07 said:
shio said:
HappySqurriel said:
TheRealMafoo said:
HappySqurriel said:
Zucas said:
Story too complex? Oh come on similar reasons why they marked down on NMH. Said not understandable cause it was punk. Well if they'd fucking understand punk before passing judgement then there wouldn't be a problem. God I hate reviewers.

Complex stories are not necessarily a good or a bad thing, but depending on why they're complex may make it a good or a bad thing ...

In general, I tend to prefer simple plot lines where the complexity in the story comes from character development. As an example of what I mean, the story line of any of the Star Wars prequels is far more complicated than the stories of the original trillogy, but (in my opinion) the original trillogy is far better because the lack of complicated story details allowed characters to be developed fully.

Movies like Van Helsing and Wild Wild West often seem much more silly than movies with a similar tone, like the Mummy, mainly because their story is so complicated that it destroys any believeability.


yea, but movies like "LA Confidential" are far better because they are complex. It all depends on how they do it.


I don't disagree that when well done a complicated story can be great ... I won't get into it too much, but I have always felt that the "Great" storytelling in a lot of games like Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy is far closer to Van Helsing or Transformers than to good literature or movies.


Great storytelling in MGS and Final Fantasy?! Hahahahaha joke post must be

Grim Fandango and Planescape: Torment is great storytelling. MGS and FF are crap compared to them.


I've played and finished Planescape torment and the story is overrated. The writing is superb but nowhere are the philosophical allusions in the game as well developed as they are in MGS2. They touch upon certain subjects but don't examine them much beyond initial mentioning. MGS2 also redefines VG storytelling with arguably the first post modern plot in the industry.

 

And to whoever said MGS3's plot was complex, LOL.


Planescape: Torment has easily the deepest(and best) story in videogaming, the main themes are deeply examined within the game. God, now I want to play it again, damn you.

"MGS2 also redefines VG storytelling with arguably the first post modern plot in the industry" - wha?? Seriously, have you ever played Deus Ex? Deus Ex (GOTY2000) touches far deeper than the entire MGS series.



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darthdevidem01 on 20 May 2008

WEll as the MAG is only for casual gamers.....I wouldn;t expect anything better



All hail the KING, Andrespetmonkey

billy07 on 20 May 2008

I'm sorry but I don't remember a sequence in either Planescape and much less in Deus Ex where the storyline focuses on examiniing and discussing various philosophical issues for almost an hour straight, ala MGS2.



darthdevidem01 on 20 May 2008

@billy07

to me that added innovation & a new view to the storyline.....its about time games had such stories in them



All hail the KING, Andrespetmonkey