Ok I managed to read about half of it.

The whole "Reviewers don't understand the casual audience" is complete BS. They are reviewing the game, they are giving their thoughts on how the game is, if it is fun, if it was developed well, if the story line is good. Whether you're a hardcore gamer or a casual, IT DOESNT MATTER, you're both buying the same game. Usually in reviews they write things like "it's a fun game but not one you'd play over and over again" or "this game is great for everyone" stuff along those lines.

I mean really, you're coming off as a Wii fanboy, "since Wii this" "because of Wii that" "Wii" "Wii" "Wii" "non-HD"....

It's quite ridiculous that you think a Wii game deserves it's own set of review guidelines. GTA4 is a great game, while it is not perfect, compared to what we expect from GTA games it is fantastic, it has a great story, and extremely fun gameplay. And to top it off, CASUAL GAMERS CAN PLAY IT TOO! It's not a hardcore only game, you don't have to do the missions, you can simply pop it in and kill some people, have fun with it!

Again, all games are games, they are all reviewed the same way, content, quality, and the fun factor. I completely agree that SSBB does not deserve a 10, it's the exact same style as Melee, there's a bit of new stuff, but it's not extradinary, GTA4 however has taken all that is GTA and made it 10 times better, it has a great story line (Something SSBB has pretty much nothing of) and it has tons of new stuff that wasnt in any other GTA game. Plus its fun! You can cruise for hours, there is plenty of stuff to do.

Just quit crying about GTA4, you're a fanboy, admit it, accept it. And let others enjoy their game.

Username2324 said: Try creating a topic and post people are interested in and might consider reading, not a 3 page article about whatever it is you're trying to say.

I surely hope there's no rule on this forum that says that threads need to be kept to 3 lines at a minimum to support the people with nonexistent attention spans.

 

Ok I read the second part, you're basically saying you don't like the PS3 or 360.

You're saying they are the same, although they are quite different, and you're saying games will suck for them because they are the same, although we see games getting better consistently.

You are saying they are battling for 2nd, PS3 has second, PS3 has a chance for first. Get over it.

I mean really when you think about it, you get 2 choices for an HD console, whichever fits you best. But for the Wii-class console, you can only choose the Wii, I think you may be feeling a little empty inside. You feel left out because the Wii sells good BUT NO ONE CARES. There is no "This game is revolutionary!" on the Wii, there is no graphical greatness. The Wii is a gamecube on steroids, it's not that great.

Like another user said, Wii games aren't all cool and constantly evolving like you said. You traded "button mashing" for arm swinging (although on SSBB you're just smashing the few buttons there are to smash).

All 3 are consoles for freakin sakes. Why are you getting all hormonal about it, and the "injustices being done to Wii games reviews".

SuperLloyd said: Username2324 said: Try creating a topic and post people are interested in and might consider reading, not a 3 page article about whatever it is you're trying to say. I surely hope there's no rule on this forum that says that threads need to be kept to 3 lines at a minimum to support the people with nonexistent attention spans.

 The thing is, the whole post is actually veiled fanboy screed, obscured by length and self-declared good intentions. Thus, when people call him on it, he can run in and say no, you didn't read the whole post.

I can't understand peoples complete inability to look at things from other peoples point of view or offer any kind of information to support their opposing point of view.

If you don't want to read 4 pages, don't. Close the page and read something else. Or if you aren't willing to read in full then don't post some ill-informed or misguided retort based on what you think the person was going to say.

Grey Acumen finished with "So discuss. Has anyone else noticed this phenomena, or is it just
a bias caused by my preference of the Wii?". He wrote his thoughts down, he has not claimed them as fact and has left many points open for debate.yet hardly one of the articles detractors has provided any kind of constructive arguement against his points of view.

I think this whole debate would have been much more interesting if the game was only released on one of the HD consoles. That way you would have had multi format sites and specialists sites reviewing the game. That way we could have been more sure that the reviews were a genuine reflection of the game and not a case of the HD guys sticking together, which it may or may not be. I just think there have been too many highly rated games this generation on both sides, and i do believe it's a symptom of people trying to justify a console purchase or choice which is fundamentally different from the competition.

Username2324 said: Ok I managed to read about half of it. The whole "Reviewers don't understand the casual audience" is complete BS. They are reviewing the game, they are giving their thoughts on how the game is, if it is fun, if it was developed well, if the story line is good. Whether you're a hardcore gamer or a casual, IT DOESNT MATTER, you're both buying the same game. Usually in reviews they write things like "it's a fun game but not one you'd play over and over again" or "this game is great for everyone" stuff along those lines. *1 I mean really, you're coming off as a Wii fanboy, "since Wii this" "because of Wii that" "Wii" "Wii" "Wii" "non-HD".... *2 It's quite ridiculous that you think a Wii game deserves it's own set of review guidelines. GTA4 is a great game, while it is not perfect, compared to what we expect from GTA games it is fantastic, it has a great story, and extremely fun gameplay. And to top it off, CASUAL GAMERS CAN PLAY IT TOO! It's not a hardcore only game, you don't have to do the missions, you can simply pop it in and kill some people, have fun with it! *3 Again, all games are games, they are all reviewed the same way, content, quality, and the fun factor. I completely agree that SSBB does not deserve a 10, it's the exact same style as Melee, there's a bit of new stuff, but it's not extradinary, GTA4 however has taken all that is GTA and made it 10 times better, it has a great story line (Something SSBB has pretty much nothing of) and it has tons of new stuff that wasnt in any other GTA game. Plus its fun! You can cruise for hours, there is plenty of stuff to do. *3 Just quit crying about GTA4, you're a fanboy, admit it, accept it. And let others enjoy their game. *4

*1 - It's great that they talk about things in their reviews, but reviews are not the same as review scores. Have you ever made a weighted criteria table? You list out the most important things that you are looking for, and areas that score higher in high weighted areas are going to more greatly influence the end score than those that have high scores in low weighted criteria. The casual crowd that Wii has attracted to gaming has an entirely different weighting system for what features that are looking for or expect from a game. While the review itself might be able to talk to both casual and hardcore gamers, a REVIEW SCORE is NOT able to adequately address both gaming groups.

*2 - Not sure what the heck you're talking about here. Wii is fundamentally different than the 360 and the PS3. Since my evaluation applies to both the 360 and the PS3, I group them together so I don't have to say "PS3 and 360" everytime I'm referencing them. On the flip side, when I'm making a contrast with the Wii, it's a lot easier to say "wii" than "non-hd"

*3 - Everything you said positive about GTA IV just as easily works if you were to say it about Brawl as well. Brawl has a great storyline (adequate for gaming in general, but for a fighter game, its downright superb) You also state Brawl being teh exact same style as melee as if it's a problem. People liked Melee, why would they change that?

*4 - My discussion is not about the game, it is about the reactions I have seen to it.

Deviation59 said: You said that reviewers are praising GTA IV to bring attention back to the HD consoles because they don't know how to review for the Wii and because the Wii's casual audience will make them irrelevant. At the same time, you spew hyperbole about the amazing control experience for the Wii and how people can't fall back on button mashing... except it's all the same on the Wii, just waggling the same way over and over again instead of hitting the same button over and over again. *5 The sums up the entire first half of your post and the fact that ckmlb got smacked down by a mod for calling you out on it (in much simpler terms) is just fucking pathetic. Your whole post essentially boils down to "The Wii is great, it's won the consumer battle and the hardcore gamers and reviewers are latching onto GTA IV so they don't feel left out while the PS3 and 360 battle it out for last place and irrelevance." *6

*5 - Wha? Oh, wait, I think I see where your confusion is. As near as I can tell, you're skimming, and only saw the words "button mashing" and didn't see the rest of that sentence... or paragraph... or the entire rest of the post? I pointed out that game reviewers have already learned how to deal with buttons, as well as the issues of how those buttons work, what they're likely to do when held or tapped. However a motion is much more complex to learn to perform properly, as it is not just a simple as "button is down/button is up" which can be easily verified for accuracy. Instead they are dealing with a motion which may be difficult to perform properly, however determining the source of the problem, the game's motion detection vs their own coordination and awareness of their actions, can become problematic to accurately assess.

*6 - *reads back over OP* Did you accidentlly post in the wrong thread?

Username2324 said: Ok I read the second part, you're basically saying you don't like the PS3 or 360.*1 You're saying they are the same, although they are quite different, and you're saying games will suck for them because they are the same, although we see games getting better consistently. *2 You are saying they are battling for 2nd, PS3 has second, PS3 has a chance for first. Get over it. *3 I mean really when you think about it, you get 2 choices for an HD console, whichever fits you best. But for the Wii-class console, you can only choose the Wii, I think you may be feeling a little empty inside. You feel left out because the Wii sells good BUT NO ONE CARES. There is no "This game is revolutionary!" on the Wii, there is no graphical greatness. The Wii is a gamecube on steroids, it's not that great. *4 Like another user said, Wii games aren't all cool and constantly evolving like you said. You traded "button mashing" for arm swinging (although on SSBB you're just smashing the few buttons there are to smash). All 3 are consoles for freakin sakes. Why are you getting all hormonal about it, and the "injustices being done to Wii games reviews". *5

*1 - Wrong

*2 - Nooo

*3 - *looks at VGC front page: 360 - 18.5, PS3 - 12, Wii - 24.75* Where are you getting your figures from exactly?

*4 - No one cares..? I realize that your reading comprehension may not be the best, but I seem to recall "no one" implying a figure much closer to zero than what I and anyone that has been on a forum or watched a news article would have noticed. Or maybe its the defenition of "cares" that is causing problems here?

*5 - Injustice? Look, I don't mind if you don't like the conclusions I came to, but could you at least respond to the article I wrote and not some made up version you have stored in your head?

 

Deviation59 said:  The thing is, the whole post is actually veiled fanboy screed, obscured by length and self-declared good intentions. Thus, when people call him on it, he can run in and say no, you didn't read the whole post.

While I certainly admit he has a Wii bias while writing it there is a certain truth to the phenomenon he is talking about. GTA4 is being shown to have a normal amount of issues, and the inetrnet gaming media is more or less giving it a pass on that account. The internet message boards are filled with doomsayers claiming the game will kill the Wii and bring HD gaming to the forefront and are doing so in serious force. The game is great if you like that kind of thing apparently, but it is getting shoved out there far more than the hype seems like it should. Halo 3 caused a huge surge in 360s being bought weeks before it was released, and quickly became the standard for the console FPS experience. It was soon dethroned by COD4. Neither of these games had a similar push floating on the internets about killing the Wii depsite Halo 3's unbelievable first day sales.

The game itself is not really even involved in what Grey was trying to talk about. It was the catalyst for a series of thoughts that can be argued for or against. He put it all in 3 pages because anything less really wouldn't convey his meaning. If you disagree then great. Give us a detailed list of reasons why rather than just insulting him and asking for a thread lock (not just directed at you). If he is wrong there should be a reasonable arguement someone can conjur up and post. That is the point of message boards.

This whole "GTA IV will kill the Wii" crap is news to me. Everyone I talk to about the game has even given up on the stupid 360 vs PS3 crap - they're all to busy playing the game.

And I have no reason to argue with him, I already pared down his post into simple points and he pulled that "you didn't read my post" bullshit. You can't argue with stupid shit like that, you can only go back and forth yelling "yes you did" and "no I didn't" with each other.

basicly, the improvements gta 4 made from gta SA were bigger than ssbb did compared to even the original n64 smash brothers.
in almost 10 years nintendo just used the same basic formula with some minor tweaks. the next smash brothers will be very similar to the other three and nintendo will throw in some next characters > nintendo fanboys happy.


gta4 is pushing both consoles to its limits, therefore it will be having some minor errors that will soon be fixed hopefully.