By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Website Topics - NeoGAF gets really cranky about NYT mentioning VGChartz

FaRmLaNd on 24 April 2008

This is getting out of hand. Completely unjustified slander, and over the top bullying only discredits neoGAF.



Around the Network
gorgepir on 24 April 2008

I like how the guy says:
RESPONSE: I am not the senior marketing manager for NPD or any other company for that matter. No, I'm sure this isn't how NPD does business but I am not speaking for NPD, I am speaking for myself. One thing I do know, I love your hypocrisy. Slander? That's the pot calling the kettle black. Should I start listing URLs of all of the slanderous remarks from you and your mods? I'm talking some seriously distrurbing shit here for everyone

--- 

No, I'm sure this isn't how NPD does business... how would you know?



thanny on 24 April 2008

looking at that linked forum, makes me glad this happened to be the first site that convinced me to join when i started getting interested in video game forums etc



 

 

 

 

 

Check out my pyro tf2 vid :)

 

Bet With routsounmanman: By the end of Q1 2008 Capcom WONT have announced a RE5 Wii Edition OR a new RE (classic gameplay) for the Wii (WON)

 

kokokyuchitsune on 24 April 2008

As someone who reads a lot of different internet forums, I hope no one minds me signing up just to quickly write this post. I can't speak for NeoGAF since I'm not even a member there, but I do read there a lot, and I do quite understand why they might ban this site. I can see why any site might ban this one.

No offense to all the work that goes into here, but discussion that references this site's numbers are more likely to lead to mindless conjecture and circle-jerking than any kind of intellectual debate. Many people can be quite uncomfortable with using guesstimates to base the crux of their argument from. And rightfully so, many times arguments have broken out when references to numbers here have been made - when NPD or company numbers are released things just break down entirely and many people are painted as fools or morons.

So perhaps, in the interest of keeping discussions as accurate as possible, keeping to what is known as (mostly) factual statistics and numbers, they might be justified in banning this site entirely. For all reasonable purposes, it has no effect on you, while their forum is a whole lot cleaner, and discussions more civil and realistic. Perhaps you may have some damaged pride, but I hope you can kind of see where I (or at least other sites) might be coming from in their attitude towards you - or more accurately - your numbers.


Oh, and sidenote:

As for NeoGAF being of some hive mentality or something along those lines, I don't think I've seen such amazing debates anywhere on the internet. There are people defending just about every side to a story or issue. Some opinions get scoffed at, plenty are mused over or expanded upon. And even better, only the really ridiculous (or later was right, but at the time seemed ridiculous ;) ) and idiotic comments get wailed upon by the majority. The ban-bets are hilarious, and the off-topic section is just



Faxanadu on 24 April 2008
thanny said:
looking at that linked forum, makes me glad this happened to be the first site that convinced me to join when i started getting interested in video game forums etc

 QFT - I actually never knew about any of those pages before reading it here. I never visit them either...



Any message from Faxanadu is written in good faith but shall neither be binding nor construed as constituting a commitment by Faxanadu except where provided for in a written agreement signed by an authorized representative of Faxanadu. This message is intended for the use of the forum members only.

The views expressed here may be personal and/or offensive and are not necessarily the views of Faxanadu.

Around the Network
Final-Fan on 24 April 2008
Faxanadu said:
Is that our MikeB?
Same name, same avatar pic, his tag mentions the Amiga, and he likes VG Chartz -- proof enough for me. 

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

bdbdbd on 24 April 2008
kokokyuchitsune said:
As someone who reads a lot of different internet forums, I hope no one minds me signing up just to quickly write this post. I can't speak for NeoGAF since I'm not even a member there, but I do read there a lot, and I do quite understand why they might ban this site. I can see why any site might ban this one.

No offense to all the work that goes into here, but discussion that references this site's numbers are more likely to lead to mindless conjecture and circle-jerking than any kind of intellectual debate. Many people can be quite uncomfortable with using guesstimates to base the crux of their argument from. And rightfully so, many times arguments have broken out when references to numbers here have been made - when NPD or company numbers are released things just break down entirely and many people are painted as fools or morons.

So perhaps, in the interest of keeping discussions as accurate as possible, keeping to what is known as (mostly) factual statistics and numbers, they might be justified in banning this site entirely. For all reasonable purposes, it has no effect on you, while their forum is a whole lot cleaner, and discussions more civil and realistic. Perhaps you may have some damaged pride, but I hope you can kind of see where I (or at least other sites) might be coming from in their attitude towards you - or more accurately - your numbers.


Oh, and sidenote:

As for NeoGAF being of some hive mentality or something along those lines, I don't think I've seen such amazing debates anywhere on the internet. There are people defending just about every side to a story or issue. Some opinions get scoffed at, plenty are mused over or expanded upon. And even better, only the really ridiculous (or later was right, but at the time seemed ridiculous ;) ) and idiotic comments get wailed upon by the majority. The ban-bets are hilarious, and the off-topic section is just


Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

Final-Fan on 24 April 2008
kokokyuchitsune said:
As someone who reads a lot of different internet forums, I hope no one minds me signing up just to quickly write this post. I can't speak for NeoGAF since I'm not even a member there, but I do read there a lot, and I do quite understand why they might ban this site. I can see why any site might ban this one.

No offense to all the work that goes into here, but discussion that references this site's numbers are more likely to lead to mindless conjecture and circle-jerking than any kind of intellectual debate. Many people can be quite uncomfortable with using guesstimates to base the crux of their argument from. And rightfully so, many times arguments have broken out when references to numbers here have been made - when NPD or company numbers are released things just break down entirely and many people are painted as fools or morons.

So perhaps, in the interest of keeping discussions as accurate as possible, keeping to what is known as (mostly) factual statistics and numbers, they might be justified in banning this site entirely. For all reasonable purposes, it has no effect on you, while their forum is a whole lot cleaner, and discussions more civil and realistic. Perhaps you may have some damaged pride, but I hope you can kind of see where I (or at least other sites) might be coming from in their attitude towards you - or more accurately - your numbers.


Oh, and sidenote:

As for NeoGAF being of some hive mentality or something along those lines, I don't think I've seen such amazing debates anywhere on the internet. There are people defending just about every side to a story or issue. Some opinions get scoffed at, plenty are mused over or expanded upon. And even better, only the really ridiculous (or later was right, but at the time seemed ridiculous ;) ) and idiotic comments get wailed upon by the majority. The ban-bets are hilarious, and the off-topic section is just <3

The mods are also a hoot :P

There are other great forums out there (Love you somethingawful) but NeoGAF takes the cake 9/10 times on my cravings for brainfood and lulz D:
(emphasis added)

But here's the thing -- NPD isn't factual eiter.  They're just estimates, albeit estimates that are likely to be significantly more accurate.

The fact is that even by taking NPD numbers you're sacrificing accuracy in return for timely and valuable data (that isn't completely accurate).

VGChartz gives you reasonably* accurate weekly sales numbers.
NPD gives you more accurate (but not completely accurate) monthly sales numbers.
Manufacturers/publishers etc. give you accurate shipment numbers.

Only the last one is really guaranteed, but NeoGAF doesn't mind using NPD, because the price in inaccuracy is less than the worth of the information.  It's one thing if NeoGAF doesn't want to give up a modest amount of accuracy in return for weekly numbers, but it's entirely another thing to pretend that there is NO worth to the information.

Even worse, a complete ban on the site (not just the weekly numbers) denies access to all the historical data and comparative tools, and I think it's been amply demonstrated that VGC's hindsight is much more accurate than its most current numbers -- VGC DOES correct its numbers.  IIRC NPD does not issue corrections to the public -- but I'm not positive; do they?

So while you make some good points, I stand by the view that NeoGAF's permaban on ANY mention of VGChartz data is blatant cowardice and stifling to useful debate.  They could have a "VGChartz allowed" section, keeping the current censorship on the rest of the site, and while it would be a bit messy it would alleviate the current situation -- but no, NeoGAF is helping the NPD operatives and ioi haters on its site to spread the most ridiculous FUD about this site. 

I don't think anyone is saying that NeoGAF is universally this way; but in regards to VG Chartz, the mods aggressively ban anyone who supports it out loud, many members and mods seem to have serious grudges against ioi (justified or not), and the place has significant numbers of NPD agents (and unaffiliated zealots) with an unreasoning hatred of this "zite".  If you kill off and silence everyone on one side of a debate, you necessarily strangle the discussion and are left only with propaganda.

*Depending on what you consider reasonable, and yes, even people who don't irrationally hate VGC or ioi might not accept the risk here because of their own preferences.

P.S.  Going off topic for a moment, I'm pretty sure that posting on the Internet is finally beginning to seriously corrupt my language skills.  I've had to correct "its/it's" problems twice in 24 hours, which I would NEVER have had to do a few years ago.

P.P.S.  Hopefully you stuck around long enough to see my reply.  And don't worry about registering just for one post -- thousands of IDs are floating around without any!  I don't know why -- there aren't any areas of the site I'm aware of with a login restriction.


Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Strategyking92 on 25 April 2008

wait, why do people hate VGChartz and its founder?



And that's the only thing I need is *this*. I don't need this or this. Just this PS4... And this gaming PC. - The PS4 and the Gaming PC and that's all I need... And this Xbox 360. - The PS4, the Gaming PC, and the Xbox 360, and that's all I need... And these PS3's. - The PS4, and these PS3's, and the Gaming PC, and the Xbox 360... And this Nintendo DS. - The PS4, this Xbox 360, and the Gaming PC, and the PS3's, and that's all *I* need. And that's *all* I need too. I don't need one other thing, not one... I need this. - The Gaming PC and PS4, and Xbox 360, and thePS3's . Well what are you looking at? What do you think I'm some kind of a jerk or something! - And this. That's all I need.

Obligatory dick measuring Gaming Laptop Specs: Sager NP8270-GTX: 17.3" FULL HD (1920X1080) LED Matte LC, nVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M, Intel Core i7-4700MQ, 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3, 750GB SATA II 3GB/s 7,200 RPM Hard Drive

DKII on 25 April 2008

Target is like 15% of game sales, I doubt a little sale there alone would double PS2 sales for a month.

The more likely scenario is that an abundance of Wii supply hurt the PS2 sales.