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Forums - Sony Discussion - PS5 build cost more than 450 USD , Sony probably having a hard time deciding the retail price

Tagged games:

 

What do you think

Sony should eat the cost ... 27 42.19%
 
I don't mind 499 USD PS5 ... 18 28.13%
 
499 USD is very cheap i will buy 3 5 7.81%
 
As long it comes with Kna... 10 15.63%
 
Shut up just give us the ... 4 6.25%
 
Total:64
Pemalite on 17 February 2020
HollyGamer said:

The problem is Nvidia retail GPU usually more expensive compared to AMD ones,  especially with tensore and RT cores. On top of that it's an old GPU that used 12 nm die size . Also don't forget 800 usd is a retail price not a BOM price.  

Older manufacturing processes (in this case 12nm which is just a refined 14/16nm which in turn is a refined 20nm process!) can often be cheaper than a newer one.

HollyGamer said:

We can expect PS5 or Xbox Series achieving similar performance or better then RTX 2080 with total performance of  combination and a tandem between ryzen 2 and the GPU (actually  overclocked RX 5700 XT  already did ). Of course the GPU alone will not be able to do that, but most of the times game developer utilize in optimizing by making a tandem between CPU GPU program (they did it alot on 8th gen games using GPU as physics instead on CPU). 

We don't know for sure, because we don't know what the hardware is.

The PC also gets "optimizations".

Contrary to popular belief, consoles don't live in a vacuum where they are the only platform to get platform optimizations to extract better performance or visual effects.

And it's interesting you mention Physics... Because many games on the PC did the same, iD Tech powered games was a good example... With GPU accelerated particle physics and lighting.

HollyGamer said:

I can see PS5 using a beter variant on overclocked  RX 5700 XT or perhaps a cut version of downclocked RX 5800. The raw performance will be better then RTX 2070.  If developer can utilize the ryzen 2 capability tandem with the GPU,  games on PS5 and Xbox series X will be able to perform equally or slightly less with RTX 2080 if the RTX were  partnered with slightly less CPU capability then Ryzen 2.   

We cannot draw comparisons to the current Navi GPU's.
The next-gen consoles will be including more modern hardware feature sets to aid in things like Ray Tracing effects, something current AMD GPU's are unable to do on a hardware accelerated level.

As for performance itself, we don't know what the performance is.

It is actually okay to say "We don't know" about something, we don't need to create claims out of thin air.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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HollyGamer on 17 February 2020
Pemalite said:
HollyGamer said:

The problem is Nvidia retail GPU usually more expensive compared to AMD ones,  especially with tensore and RT cores. On top of that it's an old GPU that used 12 nm die size . Also don't forget 800 usd is a retail price not a BOM price.  

Older manufacturing processes (in this case 12nm which is just a refined 14/16nm which in turn is a refined 20nm process!) can often be cheaper than a newer one.

HollyGamer said:

We can expect PS5 or Xbox Series achieving similar performance or better then RTX 2080 with total performance of  combination and a tandem between ryzen 2 and the GPU (actually  overclocked RX 5700 XT  already did ). Of course the GPU alone will not be able to do that, but most of the times game developer utilize in optimizing by making a tandem between CPU GPU program (they did it alot on 8th gen games using GPU as physics instead on CPU). 

We don't know for sure, because we don't know what the hardware is.

The PC also gets "optimizations".

Contrary to popular belief, consoles don't live in a vacuum where they are the only platform to get platform optimizations to extract better performance or visual effects.

And it's interesting you mention Physics... Because many games on the PC did the same, iD Tech powered games was a good example... With GPU accelerated particle physics and lighting.

HollyGamer said:

I can see PS5 using a beter variant on overclocked  RX 5700 XT or perhaps a cut version of downclocked RX 5800. The raw performance will be better then RTX 2070.  If developer can utilize the ryzen 2 capability tandem with the GPU,  games on PS5 and Xbox series X will be able to perform equally or slightly less with RTX 2080 if the RTX were  partnered with slightly less CPU capability then Ryzen 2.   

We cannot draw comparisons to the current Navi GPU's.
The next-gen consoles will be including more modern hardware feature sets to aid in things like Ray Tracing effects, something current AMD GPU's are unable to do on a hardware accelerated level.

As for performance itself, we don't know what the performance is.

It is actually okay to say "We don't know" about something, we don't need to create claims out of thin air.

We don't know, that's why we just make an assumption based on what we got and general calculation based on what we already have. It's not a fact nor a confirmation. Just playing with prediction. 

Is not like PC can or cannot do. CPU GPU games are more possible on console,due to limitation on console and close environment on console. On PC developer tend to just brute forcing rather then optimizing. 

id tech engine are indeed using this tech by default, but it's extremely rare for other engines and other games. PC is more brute force while console more of pure optimization. I am not saying PC cannot do optimization, but for open environment like PC, developer do less optimization but more just depend of hardware power. 

Last edited by HollyGamer - on 17 February 2020

Pemalite on 18 February 2020
HollyGamer said:

Is not like PC can or cannot do. CPU GPU games are more possible on console,due to limitation on console and close environment on console. On PC developer tend to just brute forcing rather then optimizing. 

NO they don't.

The "optimized techniques" that are employed on consoles in order to increase visual fidelity for any given level of performance can and does translate over to the PC.
For example... Many game engines on Consoles during the 7th gen started to leverage a technology known as "Impostering" - Which is where 3D geometry was essentially (in lamens terms) substituted for a 2D sprite, which freed up a significant amount of rendering resources. - Such an "optimization technique" was included in the PC releases.

The PC also tends to include higher quality options which comes with a corresponding hit to performance... For example many console games leverage screen-spaced ambient occlusion instead of the more expensive horizon based ambient occlusion. - Why? It's not "optimization" because the PC release gets the option to use SSAO as well.

In the end, if you want a "console experience" on PC... Any Quad-Core, 8GB of Ram and a Radeon 7870 will still give you that experience in 2020, which is a good substitute for a Playstation 4.

HollyGamer said:

id tech engine are indeed using this tech by default, but it's extremely rare for other engines and other games. PC is more brute force while console more of pure optimization. I am not saying PC cannot do optimization, but for open environment like PC, developer do less optimization but more just depend of hardware power. 

It is actually extremely common.
Any benchmark that leverages asynchronous compute is likely using it and it is reflected in gaming benchmarks that favors AMD's hardware.

Ironically, more modern AMD GPU's with more ACE units tend to wipe the floor on a per-compute basis compared to the Playstation 4 for that same reason.

Also the PC gets optimizations through Windows, game, API and driver updates extremely frequently. Like weekly/monthly.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

HollyGamer on 18 February 2020
Pemalite said:
HollyGamer said:

Is not like PC can or cannot do. CPU GPU games are more possible on console,due to limitation on console and close environment on console. On PC developer tend to just brute forcing rather then optimizing. 

NO they don't.

The "optimized techniques" that are employed on consoles in order to increase visual fidelity for any given level of performance can and does translate over to the PC.
For example... Many game engines on Consoles during the 7th gen started to leverage a technology known as "Impostering" - Which is where 3D geometry was essentially (in lamens terms) substituted for a 2D sprite, which freed up a significant amount of rendering resources. - Such an "optimization technique" was included in the PC releases.

The PC also tends to include higher quality options which comes with a corresponding hit to performance... For example many console games leverage screen-spaced ambient occlusion instead of the more expensive horizon based ambient occlusion. - Why? It's not "optimization" because the PC release gets the option to use SSAO as well.

In the end, if you want a "console experience" on PC... Any Quad-Core, 8GB of Ram and a Radeon 7870 will still give you that experience in 2020, which is a good substitute for a Playstation 4.

HollyGamer said:

id tech engine are indeed using this tech by default, but it's extremely rare for other engines and other games. PC is more brute force while console more of pure optimization. I am not saying PC cannot do optimization, but for open environment like PC, developer do less optimization but more just depend of hardware power. 

It is actually extremely common.
Any benchmark that leverages asynchronous compute is likely using it and it is reflected in gaming benchmarks that favors AMD's hardware.

Ironically, more modern AMD GPU's with more ACE units tend to wipe the floor on a per-compute basis compared to the Playstation 4 for that same reason.

Also the PC gets optimizations through Windows, game, API and driver updates extremely frequently. Like weekly/monthly.

Actually the ones who benefit most from optimization especially low level API are consoles not PC. PC can do optimization but most of the times are underutilized because PC and modern PC already powerful enough to boost the performance. Or i can say it existence are kill by the brute force of PC power alone. 

Console in the other hand is very weak especially when running modern games. You can check many older GPU that on par with PS4 and Xbox One from  2013 cannot perform the same result with new games. This because many codes on new games are tend to catter new GPU .

On top of that PS4 and Xbox One were running with Jaguar CPU, and no PC has an equivalent to that kind performance. PS4 and Xbox One can run perfectly fine with notebook and mobile phones CPU and competitive in performance with modern GPU. 

Of course it's not magic. Console optimization another level compared to PC, not because of the hardware, but it's just a natural. Console are close environment and PC are open. It's far far more easy to optimize games on console then on PC due to it's nature.  



HollyGamer on 18 February 2020
Radek said:
I know for a fact Radeon 7870 can't match PS4 in RDR2. Not only you can't go above medium textures but also it drops under 30 a lot more often than PS4. You need at least Radeon 7970 to match PS4 in RDR2.

That's true. in fact 7870 is actually more powerful than PS4 and 7970 is more powerful than 7870. It's not magic , it's about optimization. No matter how good your GPU is if the games lack optimization on the GPU then the power will be pointless.  



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Pemalite on 18 February 2020
HollyGamer said:

Actually the ones who benefit most from optimization especially low level API are consoles not PC. PC can do optimization but most of the times are underutilized because PC and modern PC already powerful enough to boost the performance. Or i can say it existence are kill by the brute force of PC power alone. 

Underutilized? Not really.
nVidia driver increases performance by 52%.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/antonyleather/2018/09/27/nvidia-geforce-driver-provides-shock-50-boost-to-amd-ryzen-threadripper-gaming-performance/#2b7c1d77201e

AMD Driver increases performance by 12%
https://www.techspot.com/downloads/drivers/essentials/amd-radeon/

Forza Horizon 3 has a patch that improved performance.
https://www.forzamotorsport.net/en-us/news/fh3_hot_wheels_available

Windows Patches can also increase performance.
https://www.techspot.com/article/1554-meltdown-flaw-cpu-performance-windows/

API Updates can also increase performance.
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=vulkan-12-release&num=1

These optimizations happen constantly on the PC, they just aren't once-offs.

Proof is in the pudding.

HollyGamer said:

Console in the other hand is very weak especially when running modern games. You can check many older GPU that on par with PS4 and Xbox One from  2013 cannot perform the same result with new games. This because many codes on new games are tend to catter new GPU .

They were "very weak" when they first released, lets be honest. Not even the Playstation 4 with all it's 8GB of GDDR5 Ram can guarantee all games at 1080P...

Whether they cater to newer GPU's or not, would be up to the developer, some prefer to prioritise the base consoles I am sure,
Either way hardware design philosophies still exist between Graphics Core Next (And it's variants) and RDNA because they use the same instruction sets... And that translates over to game development.
https://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-rx-5000-7nm-navi-gpu-rdna-and-gcn-hybrid-architecture/

In saying that, the base consoles still provide a good showing for their hardware all things considered.

HollyGamer said:

On top of that PS4 and Xbox One were running with Jaguar CPU, and no PC has an equivalent to that kind performance. PS4 and Xbox One can run perfectly fine with notebook and mobile phones CPU and competitive in performance with modern GPU. 

That's not the PC's fault. The PC always has better CPU's than consoles... And had better CPU's before Jaguar even launched.

HollyGamer said:

Of course it's not magic. Console optimization another level compared to PC, not because of the hardware, but it's just a natural. Console are close environment and PC are open. It's far far more easy to optimize games on console then on PC due to it's nature.  

I am not arguing that console optimization doesn't exist. - But again, that doesn't mean the PC doesn't get optimizations, because it does, the evidence is provided above.

Consoles don't exist in a vacuum.

Radek said:
I know for a fact Radeon 7870 can't match PS4 in RDR2. Not only you can't go above medium textures but also it drops under 30 a lot more often than PS4. You need at least Radeon 7970 to match PS4 in RDR2.

To be fair, Rockstar has always been terrible at porting and optimizing for PC.
The game is still perfectly playable on a Radeon 7870 though.



And let's be honest, every platform gets shit ports... I.E. There are PS4 Pro games that look better than the Xbox One X variant.


HollyGamer said:

That's true. in fact 7870 is actually more powerful than PS4 and 7970 is more powerful than 7870. It's not magic , it's about optimization. No matter how good your GPU is if the games lack optimization on the GPU then the power will be pointless.  


There are going to be instances where the Playstation 4's GPU can beat a Radeon 7870, especially in heavy asynchronous compute scenario's due to it's higher ACE count... And in scenarios where games push past a 2GB framebuffer.

It is not all about optimization. There are some hardware facts.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

HollyGamer on 18 February 2020
Pemalite said:
HollyGamer said:

Actually the ones who benefit most from optimization especially low level API are consoles not PC. PC can do optimization but most of the times are underutilized because PC and modern PC already powerful enough to boost the performance. Or i can say it existence are kill by the brute force of PC power alone. 

Underutilized? Not really.
nVidia driver increases performance by 52%.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/antonyleather/2018/09/27/nvidia-geforce-driver-provides-shock-50-boost-to-amd-ryzen-threadripper-gaming-performance/#2b7c1d77201e

AMD Driver increases performance by 12%
https://www.techspot.com/downloads/drivers/essentials/amd-radeon/

Forza Horizon 3 has a patch that improved performance.
https://www.forzamotorsport.net/en-us/news/fh3_hot_wheels_available

Windows Patches can also increase performance.
https://www.techspot.com/article/1554-meltdown-flaw-cpu-performance-windows/

API Updates can also increase performance.
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=vulkan-12-release&num=1

These optimizations happen constantly on the PC, they just aren't once-offs.

Proof is in the pudding.

HollyGamer said:

Console in the other hand is very weak especially when running modern games. You can check many older GPU that on par with PS4 and Xbox One from  2013 cannot perform the same result with new games. This because many codes on new games are tend to catter new GPU .

They were "very weak" when they first released, lets be honest. Not even the Playstation 4 with all it's 8GB of GDDR5 Ram can guarantee all games at 1080P...

Whether they cater to newer GPU's or not, would be up to the developer, some prefer to prioritise the base consoles I am sure,
Either way hardware design philosophies still exist between Graphics Core Next (And it's variants) and RDNA because they use the same instruction sets... And that translates over to game development.
https://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-rx-5000-7nm-navi-gpu-rdna-and-gcn-hybrid-architecture/

In saying that, the base consoles still provide a good showing for their hardware all things considered.

HollyGamer said:

On top of that PS4 and Xbox One were running with Jaguar CPU, and no PC has an equivalent to that kind performance. PS4 and Xbox One can run perfectly fine with notebook and mobile phones CPU and competitive in performance with modern GPU. 

That's not the PC's fault. The PC always has better CPU's than consoles... And had better CPU's before Jaguar even launched.

HollyGamer said:

Of course it's not magic. Console optimization another level compared to PC, not because of the hardware, but it's just a natural. Console are close environment and PC are open. It's far far more easy to optimize games on console then on PC due to it's nature.  

I am not arguing that console optimization doesn't exist. - But again, that doesn't mean the PC doesn't get optimizations, because it does, the evidence is provided above.

Consoles don't exist in a vacuum.

Radek said:
I know for a fact Radeon 7870 can't match PS4 in RDR2. Not only you can't go above medium textures but also it drops under 30 a lot more often than PS4. You need at least Radeon 7970 to match PS4 in RDR2.

To be fair, Rockstar has always been terrible at porting and optimizing for PC.
The game is still perfectly playable on a Radeon 7870 though.



And let's be honest, every platform gets shit ports... I.E. There are PS4 Pro games that look better than the Xbox One X variant.


HollyGamer said:

That's true. in fact 7870 is actually more powerful than PS4 and 7970 is more powerful than 7870. It's not magic , it's about optimization. No matter how good your GPU is if the games lack optimization on the GPU then the power will be pointless.  


There are going to be instances where the Playstation 4's GPU can beat a Radeon 7870, especially in heavy asynchronous compute scenario's due to it's higher ACE count... And in scenarios where games push past a 2GB framebuffer.

It is not all about optimization. There are some hardware facts.

Pemalite said:
HollyGamer said:

Actually the ones who benefit most from optimization especially low level API are consoles not PC. PC can do optimization but most of the times are underutilized because PC and modern PC already powerful enough to boost the performance. Or i can say it existence are kill by the brute force of PC power alone. 

Underutilized? Not really.
nVidia driver increases performance by 52%.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/antonyleather/2018/09/27/nvidia-geforce-driver-provides-shock-50-boost-to-amd-ryzen-threadripper-gaming-performance/#2b7c1d77201e

AMD Driver increases performance by 12%
https://www.techspot.com/downloads/drivers/essentials/amd-radeon/

Forza Horizon 3 has a patch that improved performance.
https://www.forzamotorsport.net/en-us/news/fh3_hot_wheels_available

Windows Patches can also increase performance.
https://www.techspot.com/article/1554-meltdown-flaw-cpu-performance-windows/

API Updates can also increase performance.
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=vulkan-12-release&num=1

These optimizations happen constantly on the PC, they just aren't once-offs.

Proof is in the pudding.

HollyGamer said:

Console in the other hand is very weak especially when running modern games. You can check many older GPU that on par with PS4 and Xbox One from  2013 cannot perform the same result with new games. This because many codes on new games are tend to catter new GPU .

They were "very weak" when they first released, lets be honest. Not even the Playstation 4 with all it's 8GB of GDDR5 Ram can guarantee all games at 1080P...

Whether they cater to newer GPU's or not, would be up to the developer, some prefer to prioritise the base consoles I am sure,
Either way hardware design philosophies still exist between Graphics Core Next (And it's variants) and RDNA because they use the same instruction sets... And that translates over to game development.
https://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-rx-5000-7nm-navi-gpu-rdna-and-gcn-hybrid-architecture/

In saying that, the base consoles still provide a good showing for their hardware all things considered.

HollyGamer said:

On top of that PS4 and Xbox One were running with Jaguar CPU, and no PC has an equivalent to that kind performance. PS4 and Xbox One can run perfectly fine with notebook and mobile phones CPU and competitive in performance with modern GPU. 

That's not the PC's fault. The PC always has better CPU's than consoles... And had better CPU's before Jaguar even launched.

HollyGamer said:

Of course it's not magic. Console optimization another level compared to PC, not because of the hardware, but it's just a natural. Console are close environment and PC are open. It's far far more easy to optimize games on console then on PC due to it's nature.  

I am not arguing that console optimization doesn't exist. - But again, that doesn't mean the PC doesn't get optimizations, because it does, the evidence is provided above.

Consoles don't exist in a vacuum.

Radek said:
I know for a fact Radeon 7870 can't match PS4 in RDR2. Not only you can't go above medium textures but also it drops under 30 a lot more often than PS4. You need at least Radeon 7970 to match PS4 in RDR2.

To be fair, Rockstar has always been terrible at porting and optimizing for PC.
The game is still perfectly playable on a Radeon 7870 though.



And let's be honest, every platform gets shit ports... I.E. There are PS4 Pro games that look better than the Xbox One X variant.


HollyGamer said:

That's true. in fact 7870 is actually more powerful than PS4 and 7970 is more powerful than 7870. It's not magic , it's about optimization. No matter how good your GPU is if the games lack optimization on the GPU then the power will be pointless.  


There are going to be instances where the Playstation 4's GPU can beat a Radeon 7870, especially in heavy asynchronous compute scenario's due to it's higher ACE count... And in scenarios where games push past a 2GB framebuffer.

It is not all about optimization. There are some hardware facts.

Well that's great nothing to disagree here. 



Trumpstyle on 22 February 2020
Immersiveunreality said:
Trumpstyle said:

Dude, the losses are irrelevant, Xbox series X will probably be a good amount more powerful than 9TF and I think it's unlikely Microsoft will charge above $500 as that would be a waste of time. Here's a list I made of verified insiders actually giving TF numbers for PS5:

Matt: 10.5TF+
BGs: 10.7-11.5TF
Jason Schreier: 10.7TF+
Heisenberg: 9.5TF or 11TF+
VFX_Veteran: 9TF
Klee: 12TF+

We have two 9TF in that list and Oberon with 9.2TF and Xbox series X likely at 12TF. Something around 11TF for $500 I think will be okey to compete will Xbox series X. They can't charge the same price as Microsoft if there's 9-12TF gap.

Explain how those TF's need to work together with other important components in the console and why you consider putting so much importance on that one thing,explain us what you know about the PS5 being a factual less powerfull console as a whole than the next gen xbox.

I question your knowledge on hardware to be able make the statements you do in a correct way.

For questions on hardware you should ask Vivster, Pemalite or Drohler, I haven't claimed to have any knowledge. As for rest of your post, what will make the biggest different between Xbox Series X and PS5 will be Gpu performance and ray-tracing performance. Resolution will be the biggest differentiator, we have seen this when compared to Xbox one X and Ps4 pro. As for ray-tracing performance, now if PS5 really is superior, I expect simply developers just tone down the ray-tracing effects for XSX, we will not see an fps advantage to PS5.

The CPU and SSD I expect to make little different.

CGI-Quality said:
Trumpstyle said:

Dude, the losses are irrelevant, Xbox series X will probably be a good amount more powerful than 9TF and I think it's unlikely Microsoft will charge above $500 as that would be a waste of time. Here's a list I made of verified insiders actually giving TF numbers for PS5:

Matt: 10.5TF+
BGs: 10.7-11.5TF
Jason Schreier: 10.7TF+
Heisenberg: 9.5TF or 11TF+
VFX_Veteran: 9TF
Klee: 12TF+

We have two 9TF in that list and Oberon with 9.2TF and Xbox series X likely at 12TF. Something around 11TF for $500 I think will be okey to compete will Xbox series X. They can't charge the same price as Microsoft if there's 9-12TF gap.

Tell ‘em - what does a “teraflop gap” mean for such devices? In a nutshell. I’m gonna be strict on this because you put such an emphasis on them. Educate these people. If you can’t, you should consider focusing on the things that actually matter regarding computer hardware.

Thank you for reading my post, I'm not sure exactly what you're asking. As they both using same Gpu architecture (Navi) using TF as an easy way discussing gpu performance. As what the gamers will see is what I wrote before, resolution. I don't expect it to be as big as a different as we saw with PS4 Pro and Xbox one X even with a 3TF gap. PS5 might have some advantages, first we saw from github leak that XsX has only 560 GB/s memory bandwidth and PS5 could have upwards 576 GB/s memory speed, this will give PS5 higher Perf/TF if now XsX has lower memory bandwidth per TF.

Another point is that Github leak also revealed that XsX has only 2 shader engines and 56CU's, this points to low clock-speed for XsX and PS5 will certainly have 2 shader engines and high clock-speed. This will give PS5 an advantage in Texture/Pixel fillrate performance. Another advantage for PS5 in Perf/TF.

Third is Sony has superior API than what Microsoft has, this will be another advantage to Sony. So even with a 3TF gap the different could be smaller than what people expect.

But you should ask Pemalite, Drohler or Vivster about this stuff, they know this technical stuff. My post was about GPU performance and price. I think you would agree with me that Sony must price their console $100 below XsX if XsX has upwards 30% gpu advantage.

Pemalite said:

Trumpstyle said:

Dude, the losses are irrelevant, Xbox series X will probably be a good amount more powerful than 9TF and I think it's unlikely Microsoft will charge above $500 as that would be a waste of time. Here's a list I made of verified insiders actually giving TF numbers for PS5:

Matt: 10.5TF+
BGs: 10.7-11.5TF
Jason Schreier: 10.7TF+
Heisenberg: 9.5TF or 11TF+
VFX_Veteran: 9TF
Klee: 12TF+

We have two 9TF in that list and Oberon with 9.2TF and Xbox series X likely at 12TF. Something around 11TF for $500 I think will be okey to compete will Xbox series X. They can't charge the same price as Microsoft if there's 9-12TF gap.

Yeah. Going to side with Radek on this one...
Verified Insiders, all with different TF numbers... In short, no one knows a damn thing, not even worth discussing.

Flops also doesn't tell us how powerful the consoles are either.

Yep I decided recently to do that list so I could see where the insiders believe PS5 will land, it looks to be around 11TF. To be fair to the insiders they gave slightly vague numbers. Like Matt only indicated that XsX will have 15% advantage or less when Windowscentral posted their article that XsX is targeting 12TF.

Jason Schreier reiteraded that both consoles was aiming to beat the Stadia number in december so now it's not possible he was talking about gpu performance as Navi is well known.

Heisenberg has made new post and says Ps5 will be around 10.5TF and XsX will have 1-1.5TF advantage. But also Ps5 will be within 10%.



6x master league achiever in starcraft2

Beaten Sigrun on God of war mode

Beaten DOOM ultra-nightmare with NO endless ammo-rune, 2x super shotgun and no decoys on ps4 pro.

1-0 against Grubby in Wc3 frozen throne ladder!!

Pemalite on 22 February 2020
Trumpstyle said:

As they both using same Gpu architecture (Navi) using TF as an easy way discussing gpu performance.

It's not. It's misleading and sometimes even blatantly false.

You can have a GPU that is absolutely identical in every way, but if you hamper it with DDR4 instead of GDDR5/6, then it's performance can be less than half.
We saw this with the Geforce 1030 DDR4 vs GDDR5 variants.

And Radeon 7750 DDR3 vs GDDR5.

And so many more.

Teraflops is a useless metric that only tells us *one* aspect of a GPU, not all of it. - It doesn't account for bandwidth, geometry, integer, fillrate or ray tracing performance.

Trumpstyle said:

Yep I decided recently to do that list so I could see where the insiders believe PS5 will land, it looks to be around 11TF. To be fair to the insiders they gave slightly vague numbers. Like Matt only indicated that XsX will have 15% advantage or less when Windowscentral posted their article that XsX is targeting 12TF.

Jason Schreier reiteraded that both consoles was aiming to beat the Stadia number in december so now it's not possible he was talking about gpu performance as Navi is well known.

Heisenberg has made new post and says Ps5 will be around 10.5TF and XsX will have 1-1.5TF advantage. But also Ps5 will be within 10%.

Your post was more than just "slightly vague" you essentially listed every possibility that is over 9+ Teraflops... That isn't even a prediction at that point... It's like wondering if water is wet.

I honestly don't care what any 3rd party "predicts". - What matters is what the actual hardware is... And let's be honest, no one actually knows yet as it's not been revealed.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Xxain on 22 February 2020

Selling the PS5 at lost will not be a big deal like it was with PS3 because of PSN. I dont think this point has been driven home hard enough. I dont mind a PS5 at 499, but if SONY sold it 399, PSN will more than cover the cost. They made 12.8billion from PSN in 2018