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Birds of Prey - 82% RT, and good audience reception

Forums - Movies Discussion - Birds of Prey - 82% RT, and good audience reception

Jaicee said:
shikamaru317 said:

Yeah, it doesn't seem to be quite that bad, 6.8 on IMDb for Birds of Prey compared to a 5.2 for Ghostbusters. Still not great user reviews though, and I can see why the person I heard that from compared them, the whole all-female main cast, girl power thing. No idea why movie studios keep doing these girl power movies when they've mostly been flopping and reviewing poorly, Ghostbusters 2016 started the trend, and it has been continued by Ocean's 8, Charlie's Angels 2019, and now Birds of Prey, all of which got bad to meh user reviews, and the Ghostbusters and Charlie's Angels reboots were box office flops as well (with only Ocean's 8 managing to break even). Seems like Birds of Prey may continue that trend, first weekend estimates are coming in about $20m below pre-release projections in the US and $10-20m below pre-release projections internationally, and the break-even point is being estimated at $235m by Box Office Pro.

*sigh* There always has to be one of you on every thread. (And usually there's more.)

The fact is that female-centered movies are averaging higher ticket sales and revenues than are male-centered movies these days, overall. Without pre-judging Birds of Prey without having yet seen it myself, it's VERY selective to only highlight the Ghostbusters and Charlie's Angels remakes when there have been, in the last decade, such pictures as Mad Max: Fury Road, The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo, Gravity, The Hunger Games, a few Star Wars movies (the first three of which at least were not flops anyway), The Bridesmaids, Hidden Figures, The Hate U Give, Wonder Woman, and Captain Marvel, and those are just some of the better-known examples. Another film that users created a thread about here on VGC to crap on in advance was Greta Gerwig's film adaptation of Little Women, which has gone on to become a critical and commercial smash hit (especially relative to its budget), in addition to being nominated for six Oscars. Also, in animation, there have been such success stories as Inside Out, Finding Dory, Moana, and Zootopia, as well as both Frozen movies, all of which have been well-received. (Yeah, that's a Disney lineup, I know: they're basically the only company that does animation for girls.) Most of these pictures could be described as pro-feminist and three (The Bridesmaids, Little Women, and Hidden Figures) use all-female casts of protagonists. A few of them even had female directors.

In addition to the above commercial hits, I would point to a number of other examples of female-centered pictures that impressed me over the last decade, including the lesbian romances Portrait of a Lady on Fire and Carol, as well the Studio Ghibli picture The Tale of the Princess Kaguya and one of my personal favorite movies of the last decade, Winter's Bone because all of those are objectively solid films even though they didn't make the most money in the world.

My point is that, while you might find "girl power" frightening and objectionable, the fact is that large numbers of people, are interested in stories about girls and women, and not just in seeing them sexualized and turned into naught but helpless, hapless victims like you'd prefer. And also that, frankly, many if not most female-centered movies being released today really do have some artistic merit. One really has to reach to find only the lesser examples. That takes conscious intention.

You’re making a lot of assumptions about me here:

-I never said that I personally have a problem with girl power movies, only that a lot of the recent ones have flopped.

-I was specifically referring to group/team girl power movies, and a lot of those recent ones have flopped as I pointed out. Many solo female led movies have been big successes, you don’t have to look very hard to find successful solo female lead movies like Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman, or The Hunger Games.

-Never said that I like my female characters to be sexualized damsels in distress *facepalm*

- I am perfectly happy playing games or watching movies that have strong female leads (as a for instance, I loved games with strong female main characters like Horizon: Zero Dawn, Uncharted: Lost Legacy, and Assassin’s Creed Odyssey, and if you look at my signature you will see that my Xbox and PlayStation GamerPic/Avatar right now are both strong female characters). I just hate it when writers degrade male characters to make their female characters look better by comparison, or make their female characters overpowered Mary Sues, like for instance Rey in the Star Wars sequel trilogy. Birds of Prey might not even be one of those pieces of media that does that, all I said was that somebody told me that it is one of those. I will judge the movie when I watch it myself, likely once it is available to rent.

Last edited by shikamaru317 - 6 days ago

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shikamaru317 said:

You’re making a lot of assumptions about me here:

-I never said that I personally have a problem with girl power movies, only that a lot of the recent ones have flopped.

-I was specifically referring to group/team girl power movies, and a lot of those recent ones have flopped as I pointed out. Many solo female led movies have been big successes, you don’t have to look very hard to find successful solo female lead movies like Captain Marvel of The Hunger Games.

-Never said that I like my female characters to be sexualized damsels in distress *facepalm*

- I am perfectly happy playing games or watching movies that have strong female leads (as a for instance, I loved games with strong female main characters like Horizon: Zero Dawn, Uncharted: Lost Legacy, and Assassin’s Creed Odyssey). I just hate it when writers degrade male characters to make their female characters look better, or make their female characters overpowered Mary Sues, like for instance Rey in the Star Wars sequel trilogy. Birds of Prey might not even be one of those pieces of media that does that, all I said was that somebody told me that it is one of those. I will judge the movie when I watch it myself, likely once it is available to rent.

Sorry, I've taken enough shit off your type to not be interested in continuing to do so anymore.

I have observed that characters like you never ever apply the same sorts of complaints in reverse. Never would someone like you complain of girls or women being portrayed poorly in films or any other medium, though it is exponentially more commonplace. None of your type ever complains of "Gary Stus" or anything of this nature, nor that, for example, most movies include literally no dialogue between women that isn't about men. But any time, and yes I mean ANY time, ANY movie about girls or women is announced, instantly there are men here claiming to be victimized well before its release. I find it impossible not to notice that logical contrast and have to ask myself why it's there.



Jaicee said:
shikamaru317 said:

You’re making a lot of assumptions about me here:

-I never said that I personally have a problem with girl power movies, only that a lot of the recent ones have flopped.

-I was specifically referring to group/team girl power movies, and a lot of those recent ones have flopped as I pointed out. Many solo female led movies have been big successes, you don’t have to look very hard to find successful solo female lead movies like Captain Marvel of The Hunger Games.

-Never said that I like my female characters to be sexualized damsels in distress *facepalm*

- I am perfectly happy playing games or watching movies that have strong female leads (as a for instance, I loved games with strong female main characters like Horizon: Zero Dawn, Uncharted: Lost Legacy, and Assassin’s Creed Odyssey). I just hate it when writers degrade male characters to make their female characters look better, or make their female characters overpowered Mary Sues, like for instance Rey in the Star Wars sequel trilogy. Birds of Prey might not even be one of those pieces of media that does that, all I said was that somebody told me that it is one of those. I will judge the movie when I watch it myself, likely once it is available to rent.

Sorry, I've taken enough shit off your type to not be interested in continuing to do so anymore.

I have observed that characters like you never ever apply the same sorts of complaints in reverse. Never would someone like you complain of girls or women being portrayed poorly in films or any other medium, though it is exponentially more commonplace. None of your type ever complains of "Gary Stus" or anything of this nature, nor that, for example, most movies include literally no dialogue between women that isn't about men. But any time, and yes I mean ANY time, ANY movie about girls or women is announced, instantly there are men here claiming to be victimized well before its release. I find it impossible not to notice that logical contrast and have to ask myself why it's there.

And again, you judge me, saying that I’m a certain type. You might have been in arguments with somebody else here on VGC, but it sure as shoot wasn’t me, so please stop labeling me and lumping me in with others.

For your information, I’m no more a fan of Gary Stu’s than I am of Mary Sue’s. Bad writing is bad writing, designing a character with too many unearned strengths and few or no weaknesses is bad writing. As a writer myself, I will always call our bad writing. Good writing is building up a character over time, showing their struggles as they overcome them, so that the readers/viewers can relate to them, not building some all-powerful character whom everything comes easy to without them having to work at it.

Perhaps in the future try not to judge or label others quite so readily based on a few sentences over the internet. This will be my last response to this, I usually avoid discussions about this sort of thing but you called me out for some reason or other.

Last edited by shikamaru317 - 6 days ago

shikamaru317 said:

And again, you judge me, saying that I’m a certain type. You might have been in arguments with somebody else here on VGC, but it sure as shoot wasn’t me, so please stop labeling me and lumping me in with others.

For your information, I’m no more a fan of Gary Stu’s than I am of Mary Sue’s. Bad writing is bad writing, designing a character with too many unearned strengths and few or no weaknesses is bad writing. As a writer myself, I will always call our bad writing. Good writing is building up a character over time, showing their struggles as they overcome them, so that the readers/viewers can relate to them, not building some all-powerful character whom everything comes easy to without them having to work at it.

Perhaps in the future try not to judge or label others quite so readily based on a few sentences over the internet. This will be my last response to this, I usually avoid discussions about this sort of thing but you called me out for some reason or other.

This will be my final reply on this subject as well because I'm tired of having this same conversation on every film-related thread.

The "some reason" for which I called you out was because you dedicated a whole response to complaining about the existence of what you called "girl power" movies, which I couldn't help but feel had sexist undertones because the people who write like that are usually the same ones who have also spent the last decade or so participating in misogynistic online activist movements like #GamerGate, #StarWarsFans, etc. Maybe, maybe I have lumped you in with those sorts of scenes incorrectly based on preferred lingo and convenient, typical selection of film highlights...but if so, you can forgive me for reaching that conclusion given the tone and context of the post in question, no?



https://www.metacritic.com/movie/birds-of-prey-and-the-fantabulous-emancipation-of-one-harley-quinn?ref=hp
Bird's of Prey has an average review score of only 60% on Metacritic. Another Hollywood flop with bad acting and weak story. The superheroes in this film do not even reflect the comic books. Better marketing and calling the film Harley Quinn may have boosted sales.

"Topping the box office, “Birds of Prey (and the Fantabulous Emancipation of One Harley Quinn)” still fell far below projections. Analysts had expected the film’s domestic opening to reach around $50 million; instead it brought in $33.3 million."

Last edited by Phoenix20 - 5 days ago

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Saw it last night. Wont spoiler anything... I think, I'll still use a spoiler tag just in case

Spoiler!

Do have to say It is WAY better than what the trailers make it look like. its not the best comic book film DC has done in recent years IMO, I still prefer WW and Shazam, but its a very big step torward the right direction for a film that feels a bit similar to Suicide Squad as far as themes and atmosphere go. I guess the trailer gives that away, I just do want to reiterate the trailer doesnt do justice to it. 

The technical aspects of the film are very well crafted and its the one thing I liked the most, the action scenes in particular are great, the setpieces are good and the choreography is fantastic, and its not undermined by bad film editing or anything of the sort, its all very fluid - so if for nothing else, I'd recommend it as a decent action film. 

The plot is very simple and straightforward, so it doesnt have the issues SS's plot had, but theres still some parts of it  that'll be very stupid when you analyze them a bit, but you could say the same about a huge number of films - let alone comic book films, so it wasnt an issue for me. Its also very low stakes, theres no world-ending event or huge supervillain with vast super powers or heavy political commentary on current issues, its a small self contained story and the movie is better for it. Other than that, I think Im not precisely the target audience for this film since I was very quickly annoyed by Margot Robbie - Never being exactly a fan of Harley Quinn myself tbh. I wish there was more focus on the other Birds of Prey. Specially Huntress and her backstory, cause some of their traits are just rushed or very randomly revealed. But yeah, all in all is a very enjoyable action comic book film.



Personally I would give it a 3 out of 10 so below average

What I liked
1. Margot Robbie as Harley Quinn is great don't think anyone could do a much better portrayal of her.
2. There are some amazing action scenes in it. Extremely well choreograph.

What I did not like
1. The humor for most part did not work for me. Don't think I laugh at all at any of the jokes. I did laugh a few time about how ridiculous stupid some of the scenes was.
2. The story
3. Black mask portrayal
4. how under develop all the other Bird of prey charterers was other then Harley Quinn.
5. How inconsistent the action scenes choreography was. As I said early there are some amazing actions scenes in the movie but there also some really really bad one. The worse being what was suppose to be the largest fight in movie near the end. I literacy sure one bad guy stop and wait to be punched. It was like they had 2 totally different people handing the actions scenes. One who was extremely good and another who had no clue what they was doing.
6. How one min they could be surrounded by enemy the next they talking and no one around and other inconsistently like when people used guns or did not.
7. Most the dialog between characters was pretty cringe worthy

on a side note many movies guilty of this so don't bother me to much but Harley Quinn could take out many men double her size no problem but troubled against one drunk woman did not make much sense. I guess it the magic fighting named characters vs trash mobs theory.



Jaicee said:
shikamaru317 said:

Yeah, it doesn't seem to be quite that bad, 6.8 on IMDb for Birds of Prey compared to a 5.2 for Ghostbusters. Still not great user reviews though, and I can see why the person I heard that from compared them, the whole all-female main cast, girl power thing. No idea why movie studios keep doing these girl power movies when they've mostly been flopping and reviewing poorly, Ghostbusters 2016 started the trend, and it has been continued by Ocean's 8, Charlie's Angels 2019, and now Birds of Prey, all of which got bad to meh user reviews, and the Ghostbusters and Charlie's Angels reboots were box office flops as well (with only Ocean's 8 managing to break even). Seems like Birds of Prey may continue that trend, first weekend estimates are coming in about $20m below pre-release projections in the US and $10-20m below pre-release projections internationally, and the break-even point is being estimated at $235m by Box Office Pro.

*sigh* There always has to be one of you on every thread. (And usually there's more.)

The fact is that female-centered movies are averaging higher ticket sales and revenues than are male-centered movies these days, overall. Without pre-judging Birds of Prey without having yet seen it myself, it's VERY selective to only highlight Ocean's 8 and the Ghostbusters and Charlie's Angels remakes when there have been, in the last decade, such pictures as Mad Max: Fury Road, The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo, Gravity, The Hunger Games, a few Star Wars movies (the first three of which at least were not flops anyway), The Bridesmaids, Hidden Figures, The Hate U Give, Wonder Woman, and Captain Marvel, and those are just some of the better-known examples. Another film that users created a thread about here on VGC to crap on in advance was Greta Gerwig's film adaptation of Little Women, which has gone on to become a critical and commercial smash hit (especially relative to its budget), in addition to being nominated for six Oscars. Also, in animation, there have been such success stories as Inside Out, Finding Dory, Moana, and Zootopia, as well as both Frozen movies, all of which have been well-received. (Yeah, that's a Disney lineup, I know: they're basically the only company that does animation for girls.) Most of these pictures could be described as pro-feminist and three (The Bridesmaids, Little Women, and Hidden Figures) use all-female casts of protagonists. A few of them even had female directors.

In addition to the above commercial hits, I would point to a number of other examples of female-centered pictures that impressed me over the last decade, including the lesbian romances Portrait of a Lady on Fire and Carol, as well the Studio Ghibli picture The Tale of the Princess Kaguya and one of my personal favorite movies of the last decade, Winter's Bone, because all of those are objectively solid films even though they didn't make the most money in the world. Also Lady Bird and I, Tonya.

Not that I'm counting on Birds of Prey to be a masterpiece of cinema or anything. My expectations of it are moderate. Critics and audiences are scoring it better than predecessor Suicide Squad, but not to a degree that suggest it to be anything really special. I'm expecting a passable-but-not-special, goofy, heavily stylized celebration of female friendships...which is fine by me. But we'll see.

My point though is that, regardless of this particular movie, while you might find "girl power" frightening and objectionable, the fact is that large numbers of people are interested in stories about girls and women, and not just in seeing them sexualized and turned into naught but helpless, hapless victims all the time like you'd prefer. And also that, frankly, many if not most female-centered movies being released today really do have some artistic merit. One really has to reach to find only the lesser examples. That takes conscious effort.

That is a laughably bad article



This is an amazingly fun movie. Not like a huge deal movie as Joker was but so fun and stupid that you can't help but love it. Definitely deserves to be regardless one of the better ones. Much better than suicide squad. Seriously ever since wonder woman and Aquaman. DC hasn't made a bad movie yet. I think the new direction and management is really working out for them and now I can easily be hyped for all their upcoming material without having a chip on my shoulder. 2019 was an amazing year for DC with Shazam, Joker and Crisis on infinite earths plus doom patrol and titans and young justice. And everything looks in the up and up for them. Sadly it underperformed week 1 but hopefully it'll have really strong and really long legs.



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

SuaveSocialist said:
Awesome! But DC still needs to release two more Certified Fresh movies consecutively before I give them another chance.

Rotten Tomatoes seems to be flying pretty fast and loose with the term "certified". To me, especially lately, they seem like a dog that I wouldn't trust to lick it's own asshole.



Chinese food for breakfast