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Forums - General Discussion - Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread

Nighthawk117 said:
Mnementh said:

https://public.wmo.int/en/programmes/emergency-response-activities

Does the WMO own any weather satellites?  Hard to predict the weather and track hurricanes if you don't have any weather satellites at your disposal.

Look, I'll admit the WHO is a much more beneficial agency than the WMO, but still there's no need for the USA to be the biggest donor.

14% of it is payed by the US, which is granted the most of any nation.
However factor in the size of economies of a nation like the US being so big.... again it makes sense they contribute more than smaller nations.

USA: GDP: $21.44 trillion  ~14%
UK:
GDP: $2.83 trillion ~8%
Germany:
GDP: $3.86 trillion ~6%

Other nations do their parts too.
So yes, USA should be the biggest donor. 

It has a higher population, and economy than most other places of the world. Also likely benefits more from WHO than alot of other countries.
In the end, the money spent on the WHO goes into stuff like Medicine/vaccine/Prevention & controll outbreaks/Survalance and early warning/... and a whole mess of other things.

Lets pretend the US stops paying their part.... and as a result, the outbreak controll becomes so bad, another virus breaks out into a pandemic.
The "saved" moeny the US saved, could be lost due to another virus outbreak.

Ontop of this, think how many lives this saves.... the Money the USA gives to the WHO is saveing lives, across the world (and protecting themselves).
Alot of it goes to the middle-east and Africa, but they need help those places.

Pull funding, and people will die as a result.
Trump action (if followed though) will likely cost human lives.

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 16 April 2020

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vivster said:
Nighthawk117 said:

And what is the global equivalent to the WHO when it comes to the weather forecast?  In the USA, we rely on the NWS for our needs, just like we rely on the CDC

for protection from viruses.  I'm not saying we don't need the WHO to help the entire planet in times like this.  What I'm saying is that the USA should

not be the biggest donor to that agency.  The USA should only give them $30m a year, let the other countries pick up the fucking tab.

Dude, where do you think your precious local agencies have their data from? Both health and weather, like many other things, are a global effort. You might want to ask your CDC or NWS how they like to be cut off of global data.

Contributions are based on the size of the country, just like taxes are based on the amount of income you have. Oh wait, that also doesn't exist in the US. Nevermind then. I know where you're coming from. You want giant corporations pay just as much tax as you do because solidarity is a foreign word that has zero meaning in the US.

Ok, yes, health and the spread of this virus is definitely a global effort.  However, the weather forecast and hurricanes are not. The NWS doesn't need to know what the weather is doing in China to make a forecast for the 50 states.



Ka-pi96 said:
Nighthawk117 said:

Does the WMO own any weather satellites?  Hard to predict the weather and track hurricanes if you don't have any weather satellites at your disposal.

Look, I'll admit the WHO is a much more beneficial agency than the WMO, but still there's no need for the USA to be the biggest donor.

Who should be then?

The UN.



Nighthawk117 said:
vivster said:

Dude, where do you think your precious local agencies have their data from? Both health and weather, like many other things, are a global effort. You might want to ask your CDC or NWS how they like to be cut off of global data.

Contributions are based on the size of the country, just like taxes are based on the amount of income you have. Oh wait, that also doesn't exist in the US. Nevermind then. I know where you're coming from. You want giant corporations pay just as much tax as you do because solidarity is a foreign word that has zero meaning in the US.

Ok, yes, health and the spread of this virus is definitely a global effort.  However, the weather forecast and hurricanes are not. The NWS doesn't need to know what the weather is doing in China to make a forecast for the 50 states.

Are you a "meteorologist" ? do you know what computer based weather models need in terms of data points to accurately predict things?
Anyone can "look" at a sky, see if its cloudy or not, and report such.

Im not claiming I know, however I suspect the more data points, they more accurate their predictions.
For all I know, it might actually be needed that they do get data points from even china, to acurrately predict things.
(else why would they bother to share results with one another?)



JRPGfan said:
Nighthawk117 said:

Ok, yes, health and the spread of this virus is definitely a global effort.  However, the weather forecast and hurricanes are not. The NWS doesn't need to know what the weather is doing in China to make a forecast for the 50 states.

Are you a "meteorologist" ? do you know what computer based weather models need in terms of data points to accurately predict things?
Anyone can "look" at a sky, see if its cloudy or not, and report such.

Im not claiming I know, however I suspect the more data points, they more accurate their predictions.
For all I know, it might actually be needed that they do get data points from even china, to acurrately predict things.
(else why would they bother to share results with one another?)

Common sense would dictate that the weather in China has no bearing on the formation of hurricanes and their track westward.



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Nighthawk117 said:
vivster said:

Dude, where do you think your precious local agencies have their data from? Both health and weather, like many other things, are a global effort. You might want to ask your CDC or NWS how they like to be cut off of global data.

Contributions are based on the size of the country, just like taxes are based on the amount of income you have. Oh wait, that also doesn't exist in the US. Nevermind then. I know where you're coming from. You want giant corporations pay just as much tax as you do because solidarity is a foreign word that has zero meaning in the US.

Ok, yes, health and the spread of this virus is definitely a global effort.  However, the weather forecast and hurricanes are not. The NWS doesn't need to know what the weather is doing in China to make a forecast for the 50 states.

Weather definitely is a global effort. Tracking the jet stream and El Nino are essential to predicting hurricanes.



Nighthawk117 said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Who should be then?

The UN.

The money paid to the UN goes into other things, like peace&security, Protection of human rights, Dilivering humanitary aid, promoteing sustainable developements, holding nations accountable to international laws.

UN wasnt formed, to do what WHO does.
Also why use a "middleman" to pay WHO? do you want to spend more money on the UN to them pump into WHO? Why?

Basically Nighthawk117, your assumption that the USA is paying a dispropertional amount of money to the WHO is inncorrect.
Compaired to the size of the US, and its economy, its doing what it should, as are most other nations.

Also of all the stupid sh*t you can do, cutting funding for the WHO in the midst of a pandemic.... it goes without saying thats not gonna help anything.



Ka-pi96 said:
Nighthawk117 said:

The UN.

Ok.

Where does the UN get their funding from? The member countries. Which is the biggest country economically and therefore the biggest contributor? The US.

So if the UN funds the WHO then the biggest individual donor country would be... the US still.

The USA's funding of the UN is another problem.  To be addressed in a separate thread.



Nighthawk117 said:
JRPGfan said:

Are you a "meteorologist" ? do you know what computer based weather models need in terms of data points to accurately predict things?
Anyone can "look" at a sky, see if its cloudy or not, and report such.

Im not claiming I know, however I suspect the more data points, they more accurate their predictions.
For all I know, it might actually be needed that they do get data points from even china, to acurrately predict things.
(else why would they bother to share results with one another?)

Common sense would dictate that the weather in China has no bearing on the formation of hurricanes and their track westward.

"Does the flap of a butterfly’s wings in Brazil set off a tornado in Texas?"

Butterfly effect.

"the idea that a butterfly's wings might create tiny changes in the atmosphere that may ultimately alter the path of a tornado or delay, accelerate or even prevent the occurrence of a tornado in another location. The butterfly does not power or directly create the tornado, but the term is intended to imply that the flap of the butterfly's wings can cause the tornado: in the sense that the flap of the wings is a part of the initial conditions of an inter-connected complex web; one set of conditions leads to a tornado while the other set of conditions doesn't." - wiki

Granted no models go to anywhere near that extreme, however I bet when they do models, they look at pressure systems and not just local ones, and the direction/strength/temp. of wind streams.... the futher out you want to make accurate predictions, the more data you would require.

I think you underestimate, what these super computers that look at weather models do, and how much data they require to give forecasts.



Nighthawk117 said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Ok.

Where does the UN get their funding from? The member countries. Which is the biggest country economically and therefore the biggest contributor? The US.

So if the UN funds the WHO then the biggest individual donor country would be... the US still.

The USA's funding of the UN is another problem.  To be addressed in a separate thread.

Per Capita funding for the UN:

Also the USA has a HUGE say in spending, and power over the UN.
So basically US gets huge returns on investment into UN.

Where do you get this idea that the US is paying a unfair amount?