So you want to see MS "moneyhat" promising third party developments again (Mass Effect = EA, Gears of War = Epic Games)?

Also Mass Effect was released in November 2007... full two years after the 360-launch (November 2005), which would go well with Microsofts current strategy (the first two years crossgen, after that period "true nextgen games" with enough development time.

Microsoft didn't make a complete U-Turn with Kinect 1. It was always a side project and they didn't stop making AAA-games in the later 360-years.

Sony also had it's own side projects (PS Move + stereoscopic 3D modes) in the later PS3 years... have you forgotten that?

The narrative that 360-sales collapsed after the "Kinect u-turn" is also wrong, just look up the yearly sales: http://www.vgchartz.com/yearly/2008/Global/

The 360 profited from its head start. After that the PS3 sales have been constantly a bit higher than the 360-sales. And the PS3 ended with a strong finish due to the good support into the the PS4 launch year (f.e. "The Last of Us" in 2013).

Err no... Ever since they released Kinect in 2010, MS's E3 conferences became cringeworthy because all they showed was weird Kinect demo's and a mandatory Halo, Forza or Gears. Also, almost all of their 1st party studios were making Kinect games. Just to remind you, here's a list of the 360's 1st party exclusives of 2011/2012... 

• Dance Central 2
• Forza Motorsport 4
• Gears of War 3
• The Gunstringer
• Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary
• Kinect Disneyland Adventures
• Kinect Sports: Season Two
• Xbox 360 Triple Pack

2012

• Dance Central 3
• Fable: The Journey
• Forza Horizon
• Halo 4
• Kinect Nat Geo TV
• Kinect Rush: A Disney-Pixar Adventure
• Kinect Sesame Street TV
• Kinect Sports: Ultimate Collection
• Kinect Star Wars
• Nike+ Kinect Training

I remember a lot of Xbox fans defending Kinect at first because they were convinced it was for core gaming. But by 2012 even the most loyal Xbox fan couldn't defend it anymore. They were seeing games like Uncharted, GOW, TLOU etc. coming out on ps3 and MS's focus on Kinect was pissing them off. Then they took it to a new level when in 2013 their new Xone turned out to be a Kinect powered Apple Tv clone that also played games. A chunk of the processing power was dedicated to Kinect and because they were bundled, it was $100 more expensive than the ps4. It was really MS not being in touch with their audience and trying to expand their reach that cost them the last two gens. Call me paranoid but to me it seems pretty clear that history is repeating itself with all this Xcloud and cross platform nonsense. 

To be fair, you're kinda misleading. MS was also making a big push on digital releases, much of that was exclusive or timed. The Kinect games simply had physical releases. I think MS also felt Kinect was filling a void that 3rd parties were failing to do.

Minecraft came to 360 and was published by MS, yet it didn't make the list for example.

I totally agree MS dropped the ball with X1's launch. Most will agree, you aren't saying anything new. Trying to compare that with Series X's decisions is grasping at straws.

There was a period where motion gaming and appealing to casual gamers were significant. Even the PS4 showed they were considering that audience with its own camera, Playroom and even the light built into controllers. The problem with MS is they leaned into it more and made it required early on. The funny thing is we pretend Sony wasn't trying to appeal to the casual audience as well.

The studios at MS right now are primarily creating core games, they bought studios known for creating those experiences. These are the actual experiences you seem to be asking for, yet you're upset people using xCloud and Xbox One will get access to this content? Its just not a logical comparison.

Ah yes yes, silly MS stumbling down the same rabbit hole again and again. Clearly they abandoned core games on 360 and went all out with Kinect, which they are now repeating with cross gen games. Because a lack of core games on one platform is just like putting lots of core games on three platforms.

And then of course you have the TVTVTVTVKinect Xbone reveal, which literally lost them the generation. Why would xCloud not remind you of that? After all one was a disaster launch strategy alienating core gamers with an abundance of stuff completely unrelated to gaming, while xCloud is a service for core gamers to play their core games on many devices. Clearly the same thing. And while MS was completely and utterly alone in wanting to do a TVTVTVTVKinect console, the fact that they have so many other companies doing the same thing as xCloud (Sony, Amazon, Google, GeForce just to name the big name ones, there are lots of others) just goes to show how it’s exactly the same thing as catering to non gamers with the Xbone reveal.

😆

Pretty much.

Playing core games on xCloud is kinda like watching Spongebob on Netflix. It's clearly designed for the exact same audience.

I see all these core games MS has planned, but then I heard they will be cross gen. Naturally the first thing that came to mind was Kinect 3.0.

Seriously, what the fuck is this guy babbling about?

The reason this feels familiar is because they're end goal is exactly the same as when they went all crazy on us with Kinect, going beyond core console gaming because that market apparently isn't big enough for them. Of course motion gaming was an interesting market back then when you look at the success of the Wii. And yes, sony also dabbled a bit in it with the Move. The big difference however, is that Sony had the Move and games like TLOU, Uncharted, GOW etc. They never stopped giving their core audience what they wanted and it's the same thing with psvr. 

MS on the other hand has no problem with not giving core Xbox fans what they want if they think there's a bigger fish to catch. Now I know it's hard to convince some people that they're not targeting high-end graphics and they're doing the exact opposite by focusing on a broader audience with GP, just like some people were convinced Kinect was for core gamers at the time. But for argument's sake, lets say that I am right and there will be no Series X exclusives for the next 2 years, just 4k versions of Xone games running at 120fps. Instead of awkward Kinect demo's on stage, we will hear MS execs talk about bringing gamers together on a ton of different devices without showing any true next gen exclusives. Then the next day they will see mind blowing next gen graphics on Sony's stage while they announce their new GOW, HZD and whatnot. How is that giving Xbox fans, who buy a Series X to play their favorite Xbox ip's in all of its next gen glory, what they want?

The thing that some people seem to forget asking themselves is this. If you're excited about next gen and want to buy a Series X asap, do you then really want Xcloud? Do you really want to get the same Halo Infinite as on Xone, just so MS can reach more people and sell more copies? Maybe some hard core Xbox fans will accept it, tell themselves that 2 years isn't that long and the first wave of next gen games will suck anyway. But deep down I'm sure that they'd rather see MS take the same approach as Sony.   

You have to try to retain the knowledge that people are telling you about perspectives you do not have yourself. 
Edit: Point form counter (because the others did a fantastic job turning your argument inside out)

- Any comparison to Kinect is pointless as it’s casual and everything MS doing now revolves around core games. 

- GP is not targeting a broader audience but merely changes how core gamers pay for games. Instead of buying we pay a monthly fee. Like me dropping cable TV to only watch Netflix. 

- You can’t be optimistic about Sony blowing us away at launch when they historically never did while also being pessimistic about Xbox. 

- Xcloud is a option, NOT a replacement. And yes I do want it. Playing on the go or in my bedroom is nice to have in addition to my console. 

- I will enjoy Halo Infinite if it’s a great game. And it will be the definitive version on Series X so I legit have no complaints. More people playing Halo only means the brand is thriving, which pleases me greatly. 

A launch title 5 years in the making? So it was being made as a launch title but the xbox 1 x was not even out yet probably not even anounced yet. But yet they where working on the box after that? 

Even while MS was doing Kinect and the TV stuff, they never stopped making core software either. If you wanna argue Sony did a better job, that's fine. MS objectively made mistakes with X1 and its launch, but they were always pushing core software as well.

Sometimes you start a thought with an element of truth... then you fall into a rabbit hole of utter bullshit.

Who had the impression Kinect was for core gamers? You mean the thing with that launched a family friendly device that was obviously competing with Wii? What bizarro marketing did you get?

You're concerned MS won't be able to "show mind blowing graphics" while sharing games with X1? Do you recall the reaction people had to Hellblade 2? People argued it was impossible to bring that to X1.

You should also consider there are games that look significantly better on PC than console. The 9th gen consoles will actually be able to handle those closer to their highest fidelity.

xCloud won't be the preference of many people. Same goes for PS Now. But clearly some people like it. You seem to forget Sony has been in cloud gaming for years.

Halo Infinite has been in development for years. Do you think it's gonna be more enjoyable just by removing X1 support? It's a stupid argument. Also, what if Halo Infinite looks significantly better beyond resolution and performance? Gears 5 and Forza Horizon 4 look much better on PC for example.

And again, in 2013 and 2014 cross gen games dominated the 8th gen exclusives in sales and critically. You keep posting and ignore all trends.

Are you under the impression that Sony doesn't also want a bigger stream of gaming revenue coming back at them? Why do you think they're charging for PS+ now? Why do you think they have PS Now? Why do you think they have PS Move, PS Vue, and PSVR? Since when has a company ever said "uh yeah you know that money we're making right now? Let's just stick with that. It's nice, we don't really need any more money". You've already been spouting nonsense in regards to gaming, now you're doing it about business in general.

Furthermore it's even funnier because exactly how is MS going "beyond core gaming" here? The Kinect comparison is one of the biggest piles of shit you've laid in this thread, which is saying something. Kinect was a casual oriented experience, a big departure from traditional gaming. It was meant to appeal to people who, like the Wii, did not normally play console games. Just like Sony tried with PS Move. Exactly what has MS shown thus far for next gen that seems to suggest a complete departure from traditional, "core" gaming?

Cross gen games - Do you know what you need to have in order to have cross gen games? You need games. Core games, because Kinect is dead. So you're 0-1 in terms of viable Kinect comparisons. Microsoft is making core games and for the first year max of XSX, they'll be cross gen. Woah, what a dick move.

GamePass - a service chock full of core, traditional gaming experiences. You don't have to stream any of them, just download and play whatever you want. The service is all about games. It relies on games. It revolves around games, there's literally zero else involved. How fucking dare you, Papa Phil. 0-2.

xCloud - just about the closest thing you have to a legitimate example of Microsoft abandoning core games/gamers to push some service... except xCloud streams all those games LOL. You're honestly going to try and compare Kinect, to a service that allows you to play all the games you own wherever you are on any device. 0-3. You're out.

I don't think anyone has denied that MS made a mistake at the end of last gen with Kinect. And many at the start of this gen. But you're ignoring current reality and the last five or six years of work the new Xbox regime has done to turn that around. It's also funny that you harp on history only when it suits you. Microsoft will do XYZ because they have in the past. Sony launch won't be XYZ even though that's how it's always been. This time Sony will be different! Watching you hype up all these AAA launch gems Sony will supposedly have reminds me of Wayne trying to sell Waynestock

The main problem with your idea here is that Kinect was such a wild departure from traditional gaming, that it wasn't really possible for a game to be both. Sony can have a game like GT Sport be a regular game but also have a VR mode. You can't really have a Kinect game be both. It will either be a real Kinect game or it will be a traditional game with Kinect throw in for trivial use. Microsoft didn't have many studios back then, so focusing software on Kinect didn't leave much traditional stuff. But they have a fuck ton of studios now and developers can make the same game they want regardless of cross gen, GamePass, and xCloud. So you're still wildly swinging and striking out.

I still think it's hilarious that you're complaining about MS not giving gamers what they want in the same posts where you're complaining that Microsoft isn't abandoning Xbone owners and are giving them more games. And of course it will be hard to convince us of what you're saying when what your saying makes no sense and is full of bias. Hell, you quote Stinkles talking about Halo Infinite being made to run fine on Xbone but ignore where the same guy in the same interview says developers always target the best hardware.

Yes yes, lets all participate in your wet dreams. Hard pass from me. Sales, you in?

Yes, I want xCloud? The idea that I can play a couple matches of Dead by Daylight at work on breaks or play whatever I want wherever is very appealing to me. I was also very excited for PS Now but the performance was doodoo. I am very excited to give GeForce Now a go when it gets iOS support. I played two missions of Halo 4 tonight on my iPhone using the xCloud beta test.

I don't think we'll be getting the same Halo as Xbone. The guy you quoted as saying the game will run great on Xbone also said XSX is "plus plus plus", meaning vastly superior, described the XSX version of the game as the "special class citizen" and said they are targeting the best hardware. Sounds awesome. I am sorry that you used up all your optimism on the PS5 launch and I hope you enjoy HZD2, GooW 2, GT7, Twisted Metal 6, Final Fantasy 8 Remaster, Street Fighter VI, Legend of Dragoon Remaster, Last of Us 3, Uncharted 5, SOCOM 5, Spider-Man 2, Infamous 4, Bloodborne 2, etc etc it should be an amazing launch window.