Ok, so you're basically agreeing with MS giving up on the traditional console market because they can't beat Sony at delivering quality exclusives? Maybe that's true but if MS does launch a console that's 30% more powerful than the ps5 (even if it is more expensive), they would definitely have a good selling point, for me at least. But like I said, not if that doesn't translate into the better looking games because they are so focused on stuff like Gamepass, which indeed nobody is asking for. You call streaming services a merging market when we just had one of the worst console launches in history with Stadia, and their tech actually kinda works compared to the Xcloud or other streaming platforms. 

To me it's just silly that someone like Phil Spencer would openly say that Google and Amazon are their main competitors and not the companies that actually make gaming consoles and have the best games on their platforms. It's like they're already throwing in the towel.  

You're saying MS has no chance because of brand loyalty, marketing etc. in favor of Sony, yet the 360 almost beat the ps3. So I don't think its totally impossible for MS to sell more consoles. But as Method114 said, they need to keep it simple and just focus on getting the best games possible on their platform, just like they did with the 360 when they had games like Mass Effect, Forza Horizon and Gears that had Sony sweating bullets. 

Now I would totally understand if some high ranking MS exec would say Amazon and Google are their main competitors because of some long term strategy or vision. But this comes from Phil Spencer, the freaking head of MS Gaming and the Xbox brand, a couple of months before releasing their new Xbox...

As a gamer, can you honestly say that you're that excited about Gamepass and how many players they will reach with mobile streaming? Or do you care more about the 12Tflops console they're about to launch and what kind of amazing things developers could potentially do with it? Stadia failing and the lack of promotion for PS Now simply show that not many gamers care about Cloud gaming, at least not in the foreseeable future. For Sony PS Now is just something they do on the side, while they're likely putting all their resources in building new ps5 exclusives that'll take full advantage of the hardware. 

I’d argue the non UK Europe and especially Japan brand loyalty gap alone is what closed the global gap. So long as that remains unchanged, PS will always edge out Xbox at its best. But that’s beside the point, moving on. But like I said, Sony pushed Nintendo out of doing things traditionally and now MS has to also do the same...to go to markets where Sony has weak presence. Like how Switch appeals to console AND handheld gamers at the same time, genius really. It really is as simple as Xbox having 14 studios to make great games, again they are just giving you options to chose where to play them. 

At least you acknowledge MS sees Google/Amazon as long term competitors for when Xcloud is officially released. But you putting way to much stock in this grossly out of context quote. He was specifically talking about their cloud based aspirations, which Nintendo and Sony have no infrastructure. I’m sure their E3 and launch marketing will assure people that yes, they are still very much in the console business. Please understand, Ms is tackling more then one market now and has the resources to manage them. 

As a GP user, I am very much excited where it will go. It made me a Xbox fan all over again. My sig is all GP titles.  Day 1 games like Gears 5 and Outer Worlds saves me a bunch of money. I beat 20 GP games in 2019 alone, boosting the value by several times the amount of my subscription cost. Games I would not have bought outright but am glad GP had them. So this is an argument you cannot win because you sound like you don’t even know what GP is or does. 

Yes I care about the Series X, I myself own a Xbox X for the power. For the several(th) time, 3rd parties aren’t bound by what Ms is doing with cross gen. And even IF cross gen games are held back, it’s still the best version and I look forward to the games only getting better with time. 

But here is where I’m really confused that you can’t understand....that Game Pass and Xcloud divisions have NOTHING to do with their 14 developers and publisher arm. The devs make games and the services give options HOW to play. Cloud streaming does seem to have a future, not now but I’d say in a few years, and that’ll be a market MS can thrive in because that’s where Sony isnt, sticking to what they know for better or worse. 

We will see if uncle Phil is talking about next gen or a far future. But to me it sounds like they're pushing it already, just like they drastically overestimated how many people were interested in Kinect and the "one box to rule the living room" stuff. In any case, Phil literally said that he's not interested in another format war with Sony or Nintendo and they're more interested in reaching the billions of mobile phone users. 

I can totally understand that MS is seeing them dollar signs when you hear 8 billion mobile phone users. But as a gamer, I'm just not interested in streaming games. If you think GamePass is the best thing ever, then good for you. I tried it, played Gears and then cancelled the subscription because 99% of the games on there are either old and can be bought in the bargain bin for a couple of $, or are just not worth installing. They are all talking about the Netflix of gaming. But imo, gaming is not the same as watching movies. I mean I've watched a ton of crap movies on Netflix, but I'm not going to install and try every vague looking game on GP, just because it's free. Just like I'm sure most people don't even bother to install half the games that Sony gives away with PS+. In the end what people want from a home console are quality games that they can experience in all of its next gen visual glory on a big ass tv. And they would gladly spend $60 on them.  

I’d argue the non UK Europe and especially Japan brand loyalty gap alone is what closed the global gap. So long as that remains unchanged, PS will always edge out Xbox at its best. But that’s beside the point, moving on. But like I said, Sony pushed Nintendo out of doing things traditionally and now MS has to also do the same...to go to markets where Sony has weak presence. Like how Switch appeals to console AND handheld gamers at the same time, genius really. It really is as simple as Xbox having 14 studios to make great games, again they are just giving you options to chose where to play them. 

At least you acknowledge MS sees Google/Amazon as long term competitors for when Xcloud is officially released. But you putting way to much stock in this grossly out of context quote. He was specifically talking about their cloud based aspirations, which Nintendo and Sony have no infrastructure. I’m sure their E3 and launch marketing will assure people that yes, they are still very much in the console business. Please understand, Ms is tackling more then one market now and has the resources to manage them. 

As a GP user, I am very much excited where it will go. It made me a Xbox fan all over again. My sig is all GP titles.  Day 1 games like Gears 5 and Outer Worlds saves me a bunch of money. I beat 20 GP games in 2019 alone, boosting the value by several times the amount of my subscription cost. Games I would not have bought outright but am glad GP had them. So this is an argument you cannot win because you sound like you don’t even know what GP is or does. 

Yes I care about the Series X, I myself own a Xbox X for the power. For the several(th) time, 3rd parties aren’t bound by what Ms is doing with cross gen. And even IF cross gen games are held back, it’s still the best version and I look forward to the games only getting better with time. 

But here is where I’m really confused that you can’t understand....that Game Pass and Xcloud divisions have NOTHING to do with their 14 developers and publisher arm. The devs make games and the services give options HOW to play. Cloud streaming does seem to have a future, not now but I’d say in a few years, and that’ll be a market MS can thrive in because that’s where Sony isnt, sticking to what they know for better or worse. 

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Reminder: do not make things personal. Debate the arguments presented. I’m seeing a few of you taking things a bit far, so consider this post when proceeding.

Also, try not ‘stir the pot’. I’m also seeing posts deliberately attempting to ruffle feathers. Let’s avoid both so the thread can thrive. Thanks!

Currently Xcloud is in testing stages in a handful of countries. It’s a slow roll out so it’s not a dud like Stadia. The tech isn’t there yet but the idea is (Phil even said this) that it would be another choice but not replace console gaming. It’s more to appeal to those who don’t want to buy a Xbox console as Xcloud will be much lower barrier of entry. Especially if they release a “Xcloud box” like how Chromecast is used to put Stadia on TV. That would be a genius loophole around buying into a console provided you have a good internet connection. But again, this is years away and merely a draw for those who aren’t opposed to Xbox but wouldn’t buy an Xbox console. 

Frankly it sounds like a double standard coming from you. Nintendo has been doing things differently since Wii. Wii, WiiU and even Switch are not direct competitors to Sony. Xbox is merely branching out in its own way in PC and soon Xcloud. But like Nintendo MS is still very much in the hardware business, and they are still very much making traditional console grade games with their 14 studios. 

You feel how you feel. Your opinion of GP is just false as most games I’m playing are more or less a year old and still cost $30-$40 at a store. Not to mention all new MS games are day 1 available. But w/e, this isn’t my point as it’s all preference anyway. 

Your last sentence is the perfect closer...what gamers want. That’s exactly what buyers of the Series X will get. MS, like Nintendo, are now exploring markets that Sony is weak in. Nintendo with the handheld market and MS with Pc and Xcloud. If those aren’t tour thing, then that’s ok. Stick to console. That’s the point....the games they are making are for a variety of customers in the same ecosystem. 

That's an official Warning, so it isn't up for debate here. If you'd like to discuss it, you can send me a message.

At that point the convo has reached it end.

No point wasting your time with 'you are a ABC fan so what do you know' type arguments.

I don't mind is MS is looking into the far, far future and who knows, maybe one day we will all be streaming games. My problem is that this comment from Phil Spencer and the way they have been talking about Gamepass, make it sound like it's already Gamepass and Cloudgaming first and their Series X second. 

And yes, maybe Nintendo was forced to adjust and they will likely never release a traditional home console ever again. But the difference is that Nintendo is still invested in making great games for their console. Sure, they released some mobile games as well, but just like Sony is doing with PS Now or PSVR, it's just something they do on the side and it isn't hurting their output of quality games.

With MS it's different as they're currently making games that are designed to reach as many players as possible with Gamepass. Now, the Series X has a gpu that's the equivalent of a RTX2080, but how many Gamepass users on pc do you think have that kind of hardware? Also, what do you think MS will do to make sure all those pc gamers can still play the latest Halo, Gears or Forza on there as well as on the X1? My point is that having their games on as many platforms as possible defeats the whole point of a console, which is to squeeze every bit of performance out of the thing to get the best graphics possible on screen.