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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - MS: 1st party Xbox games will be cross-gen for "next year, two years"

Azzanation said:
goopy20 said:

Of course, TLOU2 and whatnot are impressive games. It's just that they would have been even more impressive if they were designed to take full advantage of these next gen consoles. Sure, it's pretty normal that in their 1st year most games are hold back because of cross gen titles. But both MS and Sony had exclusive launch titles like Forza 5, Ryse, Infamous, Killzone, Bloodborne etc. that at least showed what the consoles could do and felt truly next gen at the time.   

Also, you honestly believe these consoles can do 4k 60fps with ray tracing? A RTX 2080 can barely run BF1 at 30fps in 1080p with Ray Tracing enabled. The fact that these consoles support ray tracing tells me that 1080 or 1440p and 30fps will still be the standard for most next gen games. People seem to forget how many Xone games still run at 720p, which is the same resolution as the 360. 4k is nice but it's also a humongous waste of resources for console games that are meant to be played sitting on a couch, 16ft away from the tv. 

If the Series X is going to be running games built around the base XB1, than expect targets with Ray Tracing and 4k/60 with possibly more bells and whistles. Like a high end PC having access to better specs on a older game. Worst case, we might see games run Ray Tracing at 4k/30 with cross gen games. Afterall we are coming from base hardware running 1.3tf to 12tf (If the rumour is true of course)

The games you mentioned at launch are not exactly good examples, they were all criticized fairly and in terms of substance, those games lacked heavily. Also Bloodborne was not a launch title or even a 1st year PS4 released game. Games like Ryse and Killzone SF were bland and were only visual treats nothing more. 

I can see games like Sea of Thieves, Grounded and Bleeding Edge running on a Series X with Ray Tracing and at 4k/60. After all there is a big enough power jump from current gen and what's even better, current gen games are just going to look even better on a Series X.

taus90 said:

the reason you find it odd is because your version of next gen performance comes in the form of 4k/60 with shiny coat of paint, but there are more thing dev can do with their codes if they have the proper power to execute it. there are so many things that can be implemented with a better CPU like machine learning for AI, tessellation, collision detection, or having a dedicated node for procedural tech. No man Sky could have looked and performed better if it had been developed with ryzen Cpu's 16 threads

What advantages did Ps4, xone CPU brought that PS3 and 360 couldnt do? besides pretty graphics! For instance PS3 over Ps2 brought stream processing, handling specific task to spe so that main processor can handle other parts of the engine. Physics, motion blur etc were most of the time allotted to SPE, in short much better world simulation along with graphical jump..naughty dog after uncharted 1 retooled their engine and used SPE for graphic processing in Uncharted 2.. 

Now coming onto jaguar all things which were handled by SPE are handled by less efficient GPGPU and this takes up GPU resources as Jaguar cores couldn't handle much besides handing out draw calls ram to gpu and run OS in the background. I already gave an example of GTA4 and GTA5, GTA 5 with gta4 level world simulation is nearly impossible to pull off. or take an example of Journey on PS3 and Ps4, motion blur and sand simulation were handled by SPE which ps4 has completely omitted from the final game. There are many more example I can give but digital foundry explained the best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjjRdrVAHCQ

Maybe its me, I game on PC 90% of the time and I enjoy the graphical upgrades when playing older games on my high end rig (Well probably not high end anymore).

I am not fussed if games come out at launch with cross gen in mind because lets be honest here, we wont see any major evolutionally leaps straight away or not in a consoles first year. We are seeing bigger leaps now with current hardware as devs know the limits and can push boundaries even further. I believe giving devs the power of next gen, majority wouldn't know what to do with it and it explains why a lot of launch titles lack substance and only bring graphics to the table. Honestly look at Ryse or Killzone SF? Did anyone really care for those games? They both looked amazing and offered next gen visuals, and many probably rather play games built on the 360 and PS3. Forza 5 is a good example, a next gen game built with X1 in mind and Forza 4 was a better game.

I said this to someone before, look at Zelda BOTW, it was built on even weaker hardware yet it not only pushed boundaries it evolved the open world genre and become one of the favourite games this generation. They achieved that on WiiU specs, we laugh at Jaguar cores yet BOTW was built on an even laughable CPU. Graphics didn't get in the way and that's one positive I gain from this cross gen decision.

It would be nice to have graphics however sometimes graphics can be the down fall of games. Drive Club is a good example here. Devs need to know how to make games without thinking they will sell on visuals alone and giving devs this type of power is like overloading kids with too much sugar. 

The ps4 came out on 29th of November 2013 and games like Bloodborne and Infamous SS came out in March 2014. So yeah, maybe they weren't launch titles but it didn't take long before we got some quality games that already looked next gen compared to all the cross gen titles. And yes, BOTW is a good game, but how can you compare that to games like Horizon Zero Dawn or RDR2 which set a whole new graphical benchmark? You can argue that BOTW is a better game and more powerful hardware doesn't always translate in better gameplay, but it sure as hell opens up possibilities for developers to do things that would be impossible on lesser hardware.

Like DF said, the huge leap in cpu and SSD (which Sony is calling the key to the next gen) are probably more important than the GPU, as they can radically raise the bar when it comes to physics, ai and world simulations. All things that can directly affect the core gameplay experience. 

Last edited by goopy20 - on 17 January 2020

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Radek said:
goopy20 said:

The ps4 came out on 29th of November 2013 and games like Bloodborne and Infamous SS came out in March 2014. So yeah, maybe they weren't launch titles but it didn't take long before we got some quality games that already looked next gen compared to all the cross gen titles. And yes, BOTW is a good game, but how can you compare that to games like Horizon Zero Dawn or RDR2 which set a whole new graphical benchmark? You can argue that BOTW is a better game and more powerful hardware doesn't always translate in a better game, but it sure as hell opens up possibilities for developers to do things that would be impossible on lesser hardware.

Like DF said, the huge leap in cpu and SSD (which Sony is calling the key to the next gen) are probably more important than the GPU, as they can radically raise the bar when it comes to physics, ai and world simulations. All things that can directly affect the core gameplay experience. 

Bloodborne was in March 2015, not 2014. 2015 was the first truly next gen year imo with Dying Light, Bloodborne, The Order 1886, Witcher 3, MGS V, Batman Arkham Knight, JC3

Infamous second looked amazing on 2014.



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eva01beserk said:
Mr Puggsly said:

MS being lame over the past few years is subjective. I've enjoyed numerous titles they developed or funded over the past couple years. Thy actually fixed some games, have been improving their output and investing in studuios to increase their output internally via as 1st party. Also, Game Pass is a great deal people like. So even if you dislike X1, you have to admit MS is making many decisions that should make 9th gen an improvment.

I genuinely believe a big reason for continued X1 support is to encourage Game Pass subscriptions. There are many users who won't upgrade for a few years so cross gen support will continue from MS and 3td parties.

Maybe you're right about somethings. But you're making the assumption Sony's 1st party games are more popular than they really are and many may jump ship for that. In reality, not everybody is looking for that.

Anyway, Sony certainly has an edge in popularity and that's why I feel Lockhart would be a good move. A price advantage would help MS, especially if the cheapest box on the market plays most of the popular content people go to Playstation and Xbox for.

Might be subjective but its the consensus. Ps4 will be close to 120m by the end of the year. X1 probably close to 50m. Just by people voting with their wallets and every game journo praising Sony for their games and expecting more from MS. Its not that x1 was bad or lacking just that ps4 was much better and x1 looked bad in comparison with is why gamers will not doubt jumping on the ps5.

You are right about MS doing a lot of investments that will probably only show their strength during 9th gen. But until then we can only hope that its not a lot of Indy gamepass fodder. Which is what a lot of people a expecting. So people will be cautious and not jump to 9th gen so fast for MS.

The real consensus is MS had some solid releases even if you have a perference for Sony's narrative driven content.

The user base of PS4 is also partly from mistakes made with X1 and 3rd parties. Its not all credit to PS4's 1st party. Again, 360 succeeded from PS3's mistakes.

People are not just expecting indie fodder on Xbox. They didnt buy studios capable of AAA content for small games.

Anyhow, Sony is coming out of this gen with great momentum. MS's goal should simply be maintaining and hopefully growing their console marketshare. While PC is also playing a significant roll in their software revenue.



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Radek said:
eva01beserk said:

Infamous second looked amazing on 2014.

Yes but Sucker Punch being first party studio had access to devkits earlier, that's why it could release as early as it did.

True, but who knows what kind of launch games the ps5 will have. Generally speaking, the big titles always take a year or 2 before they hit next gen consoles, but that was when Sony's moved from a completely different architecture with the cell to a more traditional platform in the ps4. Also, 3rd party developers were probably more hesitant because of the 360's success. This time around that isn't really the case. 3rd Party developers will pretty much know for sure that the ps5 will sell like hotcakes and there shouldn't be such a long adjustment curve when it comes to the hardware. Personally I wouldn't be surprised if Sony launches with a new GT and Horizon Zero Dawn 2. HZD will be almost 4 years old when the ps5 launches, so who knows. 

MS will probably have another cross gen Forza and Halo, which is great for Xone and pc gamers. But my guess is that they will look pretty dated compared to sony's true next gen exclusives, effectively destroying the whole purpose of having the more expensive and more powerful console.  



Radek said:
eva01beserk said:

Infamous second looked amazing on 2014.

Yes but Sucker Punch being first party studio had access to devkits earlier, that's why it could release as early as it did.

Sucker Punch will make the most beautiful game ever with Ghost Of Tsushima.



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Keiji said:
Radek said:

Yes but Sucker Punch being first party studio had access to devkits earlier, that's why it could release as early as it did.

Sucker Punch will make the most beautiful game ever with Ghost Of Tsushima.

And I could certainly accept they jumping PS4 straight for PS5 if that would make the game a lot better than just using BC or "remaster"



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goopy20 said:
Radek said:

Yes but Sucker Punch being first party studio had access to devkits earlier, that's why it could release as early as it did.

True, but who knows what kind of launch games the ps5 will have. Generally speaking, the big titles always take a year or 2 before they hit next gen consoles, but that was when Sony's moved from a completely different architecture with the cell to a more traditional platform in the ps4. Also, 3rd party developers were probably more hesitant because of the 360's success. This time around that isn't really the case. 3rd Party developers will pretty much know for sure that the ps5 will sell like hotcakes and there shouldn't be such a long adjustment curve when it comes to the hardware. Personally I wouldn't be surprised if Sony launches with a new GT and Horizon Zero Dawn 2. HZD will be almost 4 years old when the ps5 launches, so who knows. 

MS will probably have another cross gen Forza and Halo, which is great for Xone and pc gamers. But my guess is that they will look pretty dated compared to sony's true next gen exclusives, effectively destroying the whole purpose of having the more expensive and more powerful console.  

Third parties were hesitant because of the success of an 80-something million console, but they’ll ignore a 100-something million console?

Why would a Forza game look dated next to GT? On Xbone they had Horizon 2 cross gen but it was built for Xbox One and the 360 version was a different game. Being cross gen doesn’t mean they have to hold the next gen version back. Is it just people wanting to predict the absolute worst situation for Microsoft, or do they really forget the cross gen games we’ve seen in the past? 



Whatever happen we will have a PS5's version of GoT, FFVII R, TLOU 2 etc... so it's all good for everyone.



Keiji said:
Whatever happen we will have a PS5's version of GoT, FFVII R, TLOU 2 etc... so it's all good for everyone.

Are you lost? did you forget the topic or that you are in Microsoft discussion? 



yvanjean said:
Keiji said:
Whatever happen we will have a PS5's version of GoT, FFVII R, TLOU 2 etc... so it's all good for everyone.

Are you lost? did you forget the topic or that you are in Microsoft discussion? 

Chartz Gamer: wow this sucks that next gen Xbox games will be held back by 8th gen consoles 

Also Chartz Gamer: wow I can’t wait to play these 8th gen remasters on my PS5 plus a remaster of this 8th gen remake of a 5th gen game will be epic