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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - MS: 1st party Xbox games will be cross-gen for "next year, two years"

Mr Puggsly said:
EricHiggin said:

I don't totally disagree, but I'd say the expectation that XBSX will be the higher spec'd console in general is more so the case. Not that PS5 can't have it's advantages. I would also say a weaker PS5 won't be too big of a deal to most if they have everything else that's anticipated. I can't say the same for XBSX in terms of games though. Lack of games, or lack of quality, or both, would be much worse for MS.

Really not sure what MS is going to do. If they still aren't sure about Lockhart, then it wouldn't surprise me that if PS5 is XBSX level, that MS won't bother with Lockhart. If PS5 is $100 cheaper, then MS will be much more inclined to rush out Lockhart as soon as they can. 

I said in a different post PS5's rumored 30% less power wouldn't matter. They can still make great looking content with a resolution compromise (simply not 4K).

I don't believe Xbox will have a lack of games thanks to recent studio purchases. They also need to pump out more content for Game Pass. I also believe PC support is increasing software revenue.

Quality seems to be going up for MS games. Phil even said they were addressing that a few years ago.

Either Lockhart has to be planned at launch or it wont happen. Games would run different resolutions and/or effect settings for the hardware. So developers need to tweak games for Lockhart at launch, it can't be an after thought.

Even if Series X and PS5 were equally priced, I think Lockhart would be good for MS.

It not like a mid gen upgrade because those already have the power to support everything.

Agree, mostly. Will matter, but very little if they have everything else. If they don't, then it becomes a problem.

Agree, mostly, but the problem isn't just quality going up, it's that it will always be compared to SIE titles, so improved quality won't be good enough. It needs to be competitive quality, and that takes time. Lot's of games quite often, likely means much lesser quality in comparison to PS5 exclusive games.

What Phil's been saying for a while isn't worth betting on. He and XB have said a lot of things, and they don't often land as promised, or get changed soon after. Words are just words without consistent stable action.

They can plan for it, and have the dev's be aware and be ready in advance, if Lockhart goes to market. Sure dev's might be a little upset if they go to the trouble and Lockhart doesn't make it to market, but like you said, the other way around and Lockhart basically can't or shouldn't happen.

If PS5 and XBSX are close, MS might as well just slim down XB1X and forget about Lockhart. Dev's have to take XB1 into account anyway, so XB1X is no big deal then either in that case.

It kinda is like a mid gen upgrade, over XB1, and XB1X. Same family, same games. Nobody left behind.



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EricHiggin said:

If PS5 and XBSX are close, MS might as well just slim down XB1X and forget about Lockhart. Dev's have to take XB1 into account anyway, so XB1X is no big deal then either in that case.

If they build Lockhart on a 128bit-256bit memory bus, with a conventional cooler and power delivery system, it might just work out cheaper to manufacture than a retooled Xbox One X anyway.



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Pemalite said:
EricHiggin said:

If PS5 and XBSX are close, MS might as well just slim down XB1X and forget about Lockhart. Dev's have to take XB1 into account anyway, so XB1X is no big deal then either in that case.

If they build Lockhart on a 128bit-256bit memory bus, with a conventional cooler and power delivery system, it might just work out cheaper to manufacture than a retooled Xbox One X anyway.

Maybe, but with some conventional changes that could easily be made, like cooling for one, XB1X shouldn't be too expensive to slim down either. They wouldn't be able to slim it down as much as if they kept using the vapor chamber, etc, but hard to believe it would end up more expensive than a new Lockhart. 

The question would be even if Lockhart is slightly more expensive for MS, is it worth dropping XB1X anyway for better 'next gen' compatibility? Without knowing their plans exactly, it's hard to say what the better decision would be. However if you're going to the trouble of keeping XB1 around, and making games work across the family, then why spend more on Lockhart instead of keeping XB1X, if you're on par with PS5 hardware and pricing?

Could go either way, but one cannot stay.



Pemalite said:
EricHiggin said:

If PS5 and XBSX are close, MS might as well just slim down XB1X and forget about Lockhart. Dev's have to take XB1 into account anyway, so XB1X is no big deal then either in that case.

If they build Lockhart on a 128bit-256bit memory bus, with a conventional cooler and power delivery system, it might just work out cheaper to manufacture than a retooled Xbox One X anyway.

Ive said it before . Lockhart will probably just be the xbox one x slim with equivalent ryzen and navi.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

eva01beserk said:
Pemalite said:

If they build Lockhart on a 128bit-256bit memory bus, with a conventional cooler and power delivery system, it might just work out cheaper to manufacture than a retooled Xbox One X anyway.

Ive said it before . Lockhart will probably just be the xbox one x slim with equivalent ryzen and navi.

I also saw the logic in a play like that back when the Lockhart rumors started. It's not like it would be a bad idea all around, but it's not like it's only a good idea either. It would have it's positives and negatives for MS, so it just depends on what they think it will do for their brand in the end. Even if it's just mind share and not much more market share, that could be worth it to them. It could also be the key to gaining back much of what they lost, who knows?



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Pemalite said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I disagree about Gears 5 being blurry, especially if you play on X1X or PC. Gears 4 also looks pretty impressive for the most part, great environments and lighting.

I think he was referring to the base Xbox One.
The base Xbox One can drop to 792P or 1408x792. Maybe even less.

Then you apply Gears of Wars Temporal Reconstruction Techniques and Temporal Upscaling and Temporal Anti-Aliasing and things can start to look blurry on the low-end devices.

It looks bloody amazing on the PC and Xbox One X though.

He said MS games even running on PC and X1X dont look impressive. Then said Gears 5 is blurry. Either way the tech analysis videos claim Gears actually does pretty well targetting 1080p during gameplay. Apparently the cutscenes can drop resolution significantly due to higher detail. Which makes sense, they drop to 30 fps on X1X.



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EricHiggin said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I said in a different post PS5's rumored 30% less power wouldn't matter. They can still make great looking content with a resolution compromise (simply not 4K).

I don't believe Xbox will have a lack of games thanks to recent studio purchases. They also need to pump out more content for Game Pass. I also believe PC support is increasing software revenue.

Quality seems to be going up for MS games. Phil even said they were addressing that a few years ago.

Either Lockhart has to be planned at launch or it wont happen. Games would run different resolutions and/or effect settings for the hardware. So developers need to tweak games for Lockhart at launch, it can't be an after thought.

Even if Series X and PS5 were equally priced, I think Lockhart would be good for MS.

It not like a mid gen upgrade because those already have the power to support everything.

Agree, mostly. Will matter, but very little if they have everything else. If they don't, then it becomes a problem.

Agree, mostly, but the problem isn't just quality going up, it's that it will always be compared to SIE titles, so improved quality won't be good enough. It needs to be competitive quality, and that takes time. Lot's of games quite often, likely means much lesser quality in comparison to PS5 exclusive games.

What Phil's been saying for a while isn't worth betting on. He and XB have said a lot of things, and they don't often land as promised, or get changed soon after. Words are just words without consistent stable action.

They can plan for it, and have the dev's be aware and be ready in advance, if Lockhart goes to market. Sure dev's might be a little upset if they go to the trouble and Lockhart doesn't make it to market, but like you said, the other way around and Lockhart basically can't or shouldn't happen.

If PS5 and XBSX are close, MS might as well just slim down XB1X and forget about Lockhart. Dev's have to take XB1 into account anyway, so XB1X is no big deal then either in that case.

It kinda is like a mid gen upgrade, over XB1, and XB1X. Same family, same games. Nobody left behind.

If MS starts making many 3rd person narrative driven games, they will be compared directly to Sony. But MS isnt just making the same types of games as Sony. Even if you dislike Halo 5 or recent Gears titles for example, Sony doesent really have a notable shooter on PS4. MS for the most part matched Sony on sim racers. But Sony doesent have an open world racer. Hence, I think each has strengths the other does not.

Xbox under Phil has taken bigger actions than ever. X1X was the best hardware created during the gen. Numerous studio purchases including Mojang. Increased PC support which will boost software revenue, thus potential for more quality. Game Pass became a thing that people actually praise. Most importantly, they fixed Halo MCC and even brought it to PC. I disagree with you, its not just talk. MS has pumped out some notable content in recent years and people seem hyped about Series X even with X1's disappointments.

Even if Lockhart wasn't available to consumers at launch, it would need to exist in some form for developers so compatability is assured. Either it will be announced at E3 or I dont think its happening.

X1X won't get every Series X game. That's why a Lockhart model should exist at a lower price. The cross gen games is probably more about Game Pass for MS. Espeically if they have committed to it.

My prediction is AAA support on X1/X1X will end in 2022. But smaller stuff, maybe remasters and BC additions will continue longer. That would be good for Game Pass users who havent upgraded.



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With some analyst saying that we will have a lot less consumers jumping ships due to backwards compatibility being available day one for both. I started thinking that this is the main reason ms are doing this.
There's no doubt Sony hit it out of the park so we are gona see a lot of enthusiasms to what sony will bring next. But can ms say the same?
We all know that they bought a bunch of studios but as many have said, they yet to proove anything. For the last few years ms line up has been quite lame and it pretty much resembles the last few years of the 360. While the fans will buy the next one no doubt, there's gona be a lot of gamers who will be cautious about going with ms right of the start.
I have a feeling ms is trying to still show them the good games that are coming and giving them some time to buy next gen. Cuz there is no doubt a lot will go to sony, or people who owned both will start with ps5 and wait until MS has a good few games until getting both. So they still need to suport 8th gen to let thouse who havent jumped yet and still hold on to the x1 to sample the games coming. Might just be the position Sony and ms finished 8th gen. Sony has nothing to proove anymore while people are still cautious of MS



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

eva01beserk said:
With some analyst saying that we will have a lot less consumers jumping ships due to backwards compatibility being available day one for both. I started thinking that this is the main reason ms are doing this.
There's no doubt Sony hit it out of the park so we are gona see a lot of enthusiasms to what sony will bring next. But can ms say the same?
We all know that they bought a bunch of studios but as many have said, they yet to proove anything. For the last few years ms line up has been quite lame and it pretty much resembles the last few years of the 360. While the fans will buy the next one no doubt, there's gona be a lot of gamers who will be cautious about going with ms right of the start.
I have a feeling ms is trying to still show them the good games that are coming and giving them some time to buy next gen. Cuz there is no doubt a lot will go to sony, or people who owned both will start with ps5 and wait until MS has a good few games until getting both. So they still need to suport 8th gen to let thouse who havent jumped yet and still hold on to the x1 to sample the games coming. Might just be the position Sony and ms finished 8th gen. Sony has nothing to proove anymore while people are still cautious of MS

MS being lame over the past few years is subjective. I've enjoyed numerous titles they developed or funded over the past couple years. Thy actually fixed some games, have been improving their output and investing in studuios to increase their output internally via as 1st party. Also, Game Pass is a great deal people like. So even if you dislike X1, you have to admit MS is making many decisions that should make 9th gen an improvment.

I genuinely believe a big reason for continued X1 support is to encourage Game Pass subscriptions. There are many users who won't upgrade for a few years so cross gen support will continue from MS and 3td parties.

Maybe you're right about somethings. But you're making the assumption Sony's 1st party games are more popular than they really are and many may jump ship for that. In reality, not everybody is looking for that.

Anyway, Sony certainly has an edge in popularity and that's why I feel Lockhart would be a good move. A price advantage would help MS, especially if the cheapest box on the market plays most of the popular content people go to Playstation and Xbox for.



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for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Mr Puggsly said:
eva01beserk said:
With some analyst saying that we will have a lot less consumers jumping ships due to backwards compatibility being available day one for both. I started thinking that this is the main reason ms are doing this.
There's no doubt Sony hit it out of the park so we are gona see a lot of enthusiasms to what sony will bring next. But can ms say the same?
We all know that they bought a bunch of studios but as many have said, they yet to proove anything. For the last few years ms line up has been quite lame and it pretty much resembles the last few years of the 360. While the fans will buy the next one no doubt, there's gona be a lot of gamers who will be cautious about going with ms right of the start.
I have a feeling ms is trying to still show them the good games that are coming and giving them some time to buy next gen. Cuz there is no doubt a lot will go to sony, or people who owned both will start with ps5 and wait until MS has a good few games until getting both. So they still need to suport 8th gen to let thouse who havent jumped yet and still hold on to the x1 to sample the games coming. Might just be the position Sony and ms finished 8th gen. Sony has nothing to proove anymore while people are still cautious of MS

MS being lame over the past few years is subjective. I've enjoyed numerous titles they developed or funded over the past couple years. Thy actually fixed some games, have been improving their output and investing in studuios to increase their output internally via as 1st party. Also, Game Pass is a great deal people like. So even if you dislike X1, you have to admit MS is making many decisions that should make 9th gen an improvment.

I genuinely believe a big reason for continued X1 support is to encourage Game Pass subscriptions. There are many users who won't upgrade for a few years so cross gen support will continue from MS and 3td parties.

Maybe you're right about somethings. But you're making the assumption Sony's 1st party games are more popular than they really are and many may jump ship for that. In reality, not everybody is looking for that.

Anyway, Sony certainly has an edge in popularity and that's why I feel Lockhart would be a good move. A price advantage would help MS, especially if the cheapest box on the market plays most of the popular content people go to Playstation and Xbox for.

Might be subjective but its the consensus. Ps4 will be close to 120m by the end of the year. X1 probably close to 50m. Just by people voting with their wallets and every game journo praising Sony for their games and expecting more from MS. Its not that x1 was bad or lacking just that ps4 was much better and x1 looked bad in comparison with is why gamers will not doubt jumping on the ps5.

You are right about MS doing a lot of investments that will probably only show their strength during 9th gen. But until then we can only hope that its not a lot of Indy gamepass fodder. Which is what a lot of people a expecting. So people will be cautious and not jump to 9th gen so fast for MS.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.