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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - MS: 1st party Xbox games will be cross-gen for "next year, two years"

This happens most generations with 3rd party, so 1st party is cottoning on. Nothing to see here really, I have no issue with it.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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Azzanation said:
EricHiggin said:

Made on WiiU, Became Game of the generation.

But power was never Nintendo's promo. But Xbox had been power since the xbox x.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

Going into this generation I m rooting for MS to to gain traction and give sony some competition so that they dont dictate the next gen rules (like skip E3). But this is one thing which I cant get on board with MS.. SSD speed is one huge leap in gaming.. for example i develop for mobile games and considering every mobile phone has one thing in common fast flash storage and according to that we design our streaming and decompression engines based on those speeds.. but due to being CPU and gpu bound and android overhead there are many complex calculation which we cannot execute, like physics calculation, hit detection, particle effects, the only thing we can do is have high quality textures decompression on the fly, hence the reason why we see so many games look good on mobile phones but lacks in game logic or level design.

Same thing will happen with these.. for example horizon zero dawn 2 released on PS4 and PS5 but in PS5 version you can ride those mechanical birds and roam over the entire map. but on PS4 it wont be possible due to streaming limitation from the CPU. Sure you can argue that a GTA-5 can do that without any hiccups, but IMO that game engine was designed around streaming assets to support larger maps on the future gen (PS4,xbox) loads of stuff was cut back to make it look good.

Compare GTA4 for instance, gta4 has smaller map but most of the CPU resource went into world building, NPC's have far more animations and reactions, better physics simulation, same goes for Farcry 2/3, and far cry 4..
In short Ps4 and xbox one was designed to make games look pretty at the cost of world simulation and game engine tech. PS5 and Xbox SX will inherit the same limitation as the base console, besides resolution i dont think any developer will put in extra efforts or man power to retool the game engine so that a smaller next gen base has better game.. instead they will save the design for their next iteration were they will completely ditch inferior cpu



d21lewis said:
DonFerrari said:

Of course there can only be one winner, that doesn't mean that whoever doesn't win have done bad.

Depends on what your idea of winning is. Sales? Profits? Games? Power? Features? One could argue that every company won the 7th gen.

But let's be honest. The Wii won. 😉

Doesn't matter the metric, winner is still a single entity.

You see a race in the olympic, the one that finished first the 100m is the winner even if the 3rd place have made more money through sponsorship.

So yes Wii sold more on its gen, the reason a big portion don't consider it a winner is because they weren't competing with PS3 and X360 by admission of Nintendo and Sony themselves.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Azzanation said:
DonFerrari said:

eeeer no, they haven't said anything about releasing crossgen for two years after PS5 debut. Sure you may say several of their studios won't have games ready in the first 2 years, but that isn't the same thing.

Different strategies, simular results in the end.

Radek said:

Imagine a PC game being made for running on GTX 660 and i3 as minimum requirement and then imagine PC game being made for running with GTX 1060, SSD and Ryzen 5 as minimum requirement.

Even at 1440p or 4K which one do you think will have higher quality graphics and more complex AI and physics (despite of resolution)

And I was being generous with GTX 660 as Xbox One has something even less powerful, GTX 660 is PS4 level GPU.

I mean come on, it's 2020 and even $150 GTX 1650 Super is faster than PS4 Pro 4.2 Tflops GPU!

I'm playing Gears 5 and it runs great on my new RX 5700 XT, Ultra details and 4K I'm getting 60 fps, but if that game was designed with only Xbox One X in mind, I wouldn't be getting more than 30 fps in 4K on ultra and the game would look next gen already.

And Xbox One X is already less powerful than Lockhart even will be, I wish Xbox One X became the lowest available Xbox for 2020-2022 games.

So when games like God of War were made, it wasnt held back by PS4 hardware when RTX-2080 GPUs were on the market? God of War still turned out pretty and so did Gears 5, lets also add TLOU2. It doesn't seem like older limited hardware is affecting the bigger AAA game developments and companie's vision.

A good developer will create a good game regardless of console limitations and BOTW is a perfect example of that.

Games can always look better regardless if they choose to use the latest console.

That is a moving the goalpost if I ever saw one.

You claimed Sony is doing the same stuff, just admit you are wrong.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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eva01beserk said:
Azzanation said:

Made on WiiU, Became Game of the generation.

But power was never Nintendo's promo. But Xbox had been power since the xbox x.

Actually power was always the thing of Xbox.

Original Xbox was the most powerful on the gen, X360 is close to PS3 in power and coming one year early that meant they were trying to be the most powerful again, X1 Don said it was impossible that they would ever let PS4 be 30% more powerful (and he was lying through and through since the systems were already revealed and the power difference was know), X1X was launched a year after PS4Pro to ensure they would be a lot more powerful, they are also touting the power of XSX (which leakers said are very near PS5 in power but haven't said which is stronger and other leakers say it is 30% stronger).



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Nu-13 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Do you really feel AC Unity lived up to their vision? Absolutely not. Achieving a vision is not just about the hardware. Its also resources and deadlines.

I dont think the crowds was too much for 8th gen hardware, instead its the optimization wasnt there nor a good use of resources from a gameplay perspective. Later AC games were better optimized in general, still pretty dense with NPCs, but could also spend resources elsewhere.

Developers were arguably more experimental last gen with inferior specs. This gen many played it safe instead pushing visuals and more open world games. It was like gen 7.5 not because limited specs, but because it was safe from a development and sales perspective.

Series X will probably be $499 at best. That's my guess, which also tells me we need Lockhart at $299. I hope that happens, I think it would put MS in good place competitively.

Again, Series X could have fantastic visuals even while sharing a game with X1. A game like Crysis 3 demonstrated that between PC and PS360.

As I said before, Lockhart doesn't exist until MS officially says so. But speaking of this hypothetical sku, if it's purpose is to run the same games in 1080p, it would still require the same cpu; equal/a little less ram and only the gpu would be significantly weaker (and cheaper). Under those conditions, how could it possibly cost $200 less? Only $100 less is more realistic. And if there is a lot less ram and weaker cpu to the point where $200 less is possible, it would be a completely different system. If games aren't made for it and scaled up on series x, it would require downporting from series x instead.

Yeah, the only option that makes some sense is a $100 cheaper version that doesn't need devs porting games to it and sells to those that don't want/care for 4k.

Ideally Lockhart would have mostly the exact same specs as Series X. I feel the easiest compromises would be about 1/3 of GPU power (4TF vs 12TF), no disc drive and perhaps they can use less storage space depending on the expected size of games. Maybe they would sell it at a loss given digital reliance.

But maybe it wont happen at all.



Recently Completed
River City: Rival Showdown
for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

DonFerrari said:
d21lewis said:

Depends on what your idea of winning is. Sales? Profits? Games? Power? Features? One could argue that every company won the 7th gen.

But let's be honest. The Wii won. 😉

Doesn't matter the metric, winner is still a single entity.

You see a race in the olympic, the one that finished first the 100m is the winner even if the 3rd place have made more money through sponsorship.

So yes Wii sold more on its gen, the reason a big portion don't consider it a winner is because they weren't competing with PS3 and X360 by admission of Nintendo and Sony themselves.

The flaw with your olympic analogy is Wii was first in sales and made the biggest profit.

Pretty sure PS3 lost money for Sony and 360 had the RROD problems.

Wii wasnt a direct competitor per se, but it certainly took potential sales from 360 and PS3. Especially in the casual market which was pretty significant at the time.



Recently Completed
River City: Rival Showdown
for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Radek said:
I'm not worried about launch month games being on X1, maybe Knack and Killzone Shadowfall could work on PS3 with downgrades but Sony chose to make it PS4 only instead.

However Infamous Second Son released in March 2014 was definitely not possible on PS3, that's why I'm worried 2021 Xbox games will suffer because of X1/X1S/X1X support.

The core gameplay of Infamous:SS wasnt above PS3 in my opinion. The graphics certainly were.

Continued X1 support doesent mean MS cant do something ambitious. I mean if MS wants to make something large in scale with tons of physics, Just Cause 3/4 showed its feasible even on a X1.

I mean people think Hellblade 2 wont work on X1 because its highly detailed and large in scale. Visuals can be scaled back and X1 has countless open world games. People have amneisa or something.



Recently Completed
River City: Rival Showdown
for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

EricHiggin said:
Azzanation said:

Graphics arent everything.

Having the most powerful specs is not synonymous with only graphics matter.

Its notable when you consider Playstation and Xbox will share most of the same library though. There will be boasting about which platforms play the same game best.

Sony fans loved those debates before X1X. Then suddenly specs didnt really matter anymore.



Recently Completed
River City: Rival Showdown
for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)