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MS: 1st party Xbox games will be cross-gen for "next year, two years"

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Right at the start at 3:00 mark John says he's very worried about Jaguar cores and HDD holding back Xbox Series X games...

but some people here will keep arguing otherwise..



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HollyGamer said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Again, you don't really know why some cross gen games have features removed. Its very common for games to get scaled back even when there is no cross gen release happening. Often games get scaled back to achieve a release date or quick optimization, games have released broken many times for that reason. Your argument is just invalid taking that into consideration.

Watchdogs for example had solid visuals for early 8th gen games, but that also had a significant compromise on resolution while having some performance issues. Therefore its not surprising they had to cut back on effects just to make them perform well while achieving their launch window.

The cross gen games are early content, its generally not going to be the best looking content during a gen. You're neglecting that obvious point.

"The reason why BF4 great because it was made for 8th gen and scaled down for 7th gen." Thank you for finally pointing out what I've been saying. If you start with 8th gen as the lead, compromises can often be made for the previous gen. Especially if its a fairly typical action game running on a good engine.

Are you suggesting Forza Horizon 2 looks bad on X1? Its has great visuals in an open world game, dynamic weather, locked at 30 fps and its 1080p, something the hardware struggles with in AAA games. Your opinion there is objectively wrong.

The speed data is streamed is also dependent on other specs. The X1X improved loading and streaming issues by having a faster CPU and more/faster RAM to work with when there was bottleneck. In some case, the X1X even cuts load times in half using the same storage tech.

Sony is misleading people into believing Spiderman streams and loads faster on PS5 solely because of SSD optimization. The reality is faster CPU and increased RAM capabilities is doing much of the heavy lifting in their demo.

Here are examples of how X1X improves load times...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrOxN6uV_4k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cplUf_VUea0

LOL, you back and forth arguing . In fact Microsoft just shows us what Hellblade 2 can do if the games are made using Xbox X  targeted spec. Hellblade looks like CGI in vast open world. I bet this cannot be done if it's Cross gen games. 

Forza 3 are much bigger and better than Forza 2, Assassin's Creed Unity are much bigger and better NPC  compared to Assassin's Creed 4 Black Flag (cross gen tittle) except for gameplay and stories. Death Stranding look much better on PS4 far better even then ultra quality graphic of Metal Gear Solid 5 (both are made by the same Kojima pro one is PS4 exclusives and one is cross gen and cross platform).

Now you can watch the video 

Wow, Hellblade 2 is in a vast open world? That's gonna be so unique to 9th gen. We never saw that in the 6th gen or anything. Also, what if Hellblade 2 on X1 simply uses scaled back assets maybe at par with 8th gen games?

What are you babbling about? I played both Forza Horizon 2 and 3 thoroughly. Both have open worlds with tons of detail in the environment.

The NPCs in AC Unity mostly just stood there with janky pop in and animation. Most people admit they had little impact on the core game.

MGSV is also years older, on a different engine and 60 fps. Death Stranding didn't come early in the life of PS4. Optimization can improve after several years, maybe you didn't get the memo.

"Leaving people behind is what next gen is all about." Except for all the cross gen games. He agree cross gen games are feasible, but it requires compromise and he personally doesn't want to play them.

They are essentially making the same points I am. Switch gets ports with much less power. There are ways to lower specs overhead with optimization or even changing aspects of the game.

They aren't saying its impossible to make more ambitious game for 9th gen while supporting X1.



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Radek said:

Right at the start at 3:00 mark John says he's very worried about Jaguar cores and HDD holding back Xbox Series X games...

but some people here will keep arguing otherwise..

Its a 25 minute video, they also discuss compromises 7th gen and Switch ports made. They were functional ports intended for vastly superior specs.

I think its fun people point out flying an open world game is extremely taxing. Meanwhile GTAIV/V did it, Far Cry 3/4 did, Skyrim did it and so did numerous other titles. Its like we are pretending ambitious games never existed in previous gens.



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Radek said:

Right at the start at 3:00 mark John says he's very worried about Jaguar cores and HDD holding back Xbox Series X games...

but some people here will keep arguing otherwise..

His arguments are literally the same thing we’ve all been saying in this thread already, and we don’t even work at DigitalFoundry.

Also why do people keep incorrectly talking about how this is the first two years of XSX? The quote was the next one or two years. It could literally just be launch games, who knows 😆



goopy20 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Do you really feel AC Unity lived up to their vision? Absolutely not. Achieving a vision is not just about the hardware. Its also resources and deadlines.

I dont think the crowds was too much for 8th gen hardware, instead its the optimization wasnt there nor a good use of resources from a gameplay perspective. Later AC games were better optimized in general, still pretty dense with NPCs, but could also spend resources elsewhere.

Developers were arguably more experimental last gen with inferior specs. This gen many played it safe instead pushing visuals and more open world games. It was like gen 7.5 not because limited specs, but because it was safe from a development and sales perspective.

Series X will probably be $499 at best. That's my guess, which also tells me we need Lockhart at $299. I hope that happens, I think it would put MS in good place competitively.

Again, Series X could have fantastic visuals even while sharing a game with X1. A game like Crysis 3 demonstrated that between PC and PS360.

Of course I don't, but that they did a poor job on Unity is besides the point. The point is that they chose to simultaneously release 2 completely different games because their ambitions for Unity wouldn't be possible if they had to port the core game experience to ps3/360 as well. 

What was their ambition? Make a game that plays virtually the same... but with bigger crowds doing nothing?

I am having trouble understanding what the vision truly was. Its also serves as an example that taking advantage of better specs should not be your sole vision.



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LudicrousSpeed said:
Radek said:

Right at the start at 3:00 mark John says he's very worried about Jaguar cores and HDD holding back Xbox Series X games...

but some people here will keep arguing otherwise..

His arguments are literally the same thing we’ve all been saying in this thread already, and we don’t even work at DigitalFoundry.

Also why do people keep incorrectly talking about how this is the first two years of XSX? The quote was the next one or two years. It could literally just be launch games, who knows 😆

Look at 18:15 mark that is when Rich & John start talking about Forward compatible and why this cross-gen decision is such a good move by Microsoft and their customers. 

Matt Booty mention that game will come to older consoles up to two years. But, Like Rich says at 8:00 mark the similarity of architecture they can do decent down port To the Xbox one S. While John has valid concern, I'm sure John would have no concern with this if Microsoft confirm that non-launch game were simply downport to Xbox one. 

John closing comment "I'm just playing devil's advocate here, I'm excited about these machines and what they can do! For me selfishly the only reason I'm saying this about not wanting to see this on original Xbox One is because I'm lucky enough to be able to purchase the next console."

The people incorrectly talking about this want you to believe that every game for Xbox Series X will be built with the Xbox One specs in mind. Which is just ludicrous. But, Xbox Series X is going to be a beast they should fear the BEAST.


Last edited by yvanjean - 6 days ago

Tommy Jean, CPA, CGA

I can't decide if it's a good or a bad thing. So I'll go with both. There are positive and negative valid arguments in favor and against this decision.

Reminds me of that thing last gen when Microsoft went for backwards compatibility and Sony with remakes/remasters. Both having pros and cons in my opinion.



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CrazyGamer2017 said:

I can't decide if it's a good or a bad thing. So I'll go with both. There are positive and negative valid arguments in favor and against this decision.

Reminds me of that thing last gen when Microsoft went for backwards compatibility and Sony with remakes/remasters. Both having pros and cons in my opinion.

True, there are certainly pros and cons. It can help keep current Xbone owners happy with new content but that can also be a con for MS as they might have less reason to upgrade. I don’t mind launch titles being available on older platforms because as even the DF video says, those titles don’t really push hardware anyway. But if were into year two or three and every XSX title is being made cross gen, that’s a problem. 

We won’t know until we see these games and release dates and platforms so I don’t see a point in caring too much right now. The only XSX games we’ve seen are Halo, which looked like Halo, and Hellblade, which looked amazing.



Mr Puggsly said:
goopy20 said:

MAybe they could have but then they wouldn't have been able to make the game according to the vision they had. The huge crowds was obviously a step too far and it didn't really add much to the game, but that had more to do with the limitations of the crappy CPU's in current gen consoles. But it was still something that was supposed to be a core gameplay mechanic, even if it didn't really work out. I'm sure developers have tons of ideas for core gameplay mechanics that will be made possible by this next gen hardware, but that will simply be limited when developers need to keep in mind that they have to deliver a similar gameplay experience on current gen consoles. 

In any case, I just think it's a very bad idea for MS. If the rumors are true and they really will come out with a $700 beast of a console that's 30% more powerful than the ps5, they should immediately showcase it. But as it is, Sony will probably come out swinging with another From ps5 exclusive and a bunch of 1st party games, that will simply look better than any cross gen game MS will have. The masses will think the ps5 is more powerful, has the better exclusives and is probably $200 cheaper to boot. I don't see that working out well for MS. 

Do you really feel AC Unity lived up to their vision? Absolutely not. Achieving a vision is not just about the hardware. Its also resources and deadlines.

I dont think the crowds was too much for 8th gen hardware, instead its the optimization wasnt there nor a good use of resources from a gameplay perspective. Later AC games were better optimized in general, still pretty dense with NPCs, but could also spend resources elsewhere.

Developers were arguably more experimental last gen with inferior specs. This gen many played it safe instead pushing visuals and more open world games. It was like gen 7.5 not because limited specs, but because it was safe from a development and sales perspective.

Series X will probably be $499 at best. That's my guess, which also tells me we need Lockhart at $299. I hope that happens, I think it would put MS in good place competitively.

Again, Series X could have fantastic visuals even while sharing a game with X1. A game like Crysis 3 demonstrated that between PC and PS360.

As I said before, Lockhart doesn't exist until MS officially says so. But speaking of this hypothetical sku, if it's purpose is to run the same games in 1080p, it would still require the same cpu; equal/a little less ram and only the gpu would be significantly weaker (and cheaper). Under those conditions, how could it possibly cost $200 less? Only $100 less is more realistic. And if there is a lot less ram and weaker cpu to the point where $200 less is possible, it would be a completely different system. If games aren't made for it and scaled up on series x, it would require downporting from series x instead.

Yeah, the only option that makes some sense is a $100 cheaper version that doesn't need devs porting games to it and sells to those that don't want/care for 4k.

Last edited by Nu-13 - 6 days ago

yvanjean said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

His arguments are literally the same thing we’ve all been saying in this thread already, and we don’t even work at DigitalFoundry.

Also why do people keep incorrectly talking about how this is the first two years of XSX? The quote was the next one or two years. It could literally just be launch games, who knows 😆

Look at 18:15 mark that is when Rich & John start talking about Forward compatible and why this cross-gen decision is such a good move by Microsoft and their customers. 

Matt Booty mention that game will come to older consoles up to two years. But, Like Rich says at 8:00 mark the similarity of architecture they can do decent down port To the Xbox one S. While John has valid concern, I'm sure John would have no concern with this if Microsoft confirm that non-launch game were simply downport to Xbox one. 

John closing comment "I'm just playing devil's advocate here, I'm excited about these machines and what they can do! For me selfishly the only reason I'm saying this about not wanting to see this on original Xbox One is because I'm lucky enough to be able to purchase the next console."

The people incorrectly talking about this want you to believe that every game for Xbox Series X will be built with the Xbox One specs in mind. Which is just ludicrous. But, Xbox Series X is going to be a beast they should fear the BEAST.

Not sure why John would use the word selfish. There is basically nothing selfish about being able to afford a next gen console, just like there's no reason to feel selfish because you can slam dunk and others can't. If someone can't afford the next console iteration, to their benefit, it's not like there's no more games to play on the prior gen console, not to mention any new third party titles that will almost certainly cross over.

Just because MS is trying to change the generation rules, doesn't mean the rules don't still apply.



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