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MS: 1st party Xbox games will be cross-gen for "next year, two years"

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goopy20 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Well its cwrtainly possible they could have scaled back AC Unity to work on 7th gen. Ofcourse that would require greatly scaled back assets. It would probably run like trash as well.

Another route would be recreating AC Unity on ACIV's engine. If the enviornment, story and new combat system was essentially intact, who would care? It might have actually been better.

But what do I really expect from cross gen games on X1 and Series X? I imagine these upcoming games are being designed to work with X1 in mind, but these could also be the most ambitious games ever designed by MS that also happen to be on X1.

I think the expectations for early next gen content is a tad unrealistic to begin with.

If Cyberpunk works on 8th gen, then I can't help but think Cyberpunk might be feasible on Switch.

MAybe they could have but then they wouldn't have been able to make the game according to the vision they had. The huge crowds was obviously a step too far and it didn't really add much to the game, but that had more to do with the limitations of the crappy CPU's in current gen consoles. But it was still something that was supposed to be a core gameplay mechanic, even if it didn't really work out. I'm sure developers have tons of ideas for core gameplay mechanics that will be made possible by this next gen hardware, but that will simply be limited when developers need to keep in mind that they have to deliver a similar gameplay experience on current gen consoles. 

In any case, I just think it's a very bad idea for MS. If the rumors are true and they really will come out with a $700 beast of a console that's 30% more powerful than the ps5, they should immediately showcase it. But as it is, Sony will probably come out swinging with another From ps5 exclusive and a bunch of 1st party games, that will simply look better than any cross gen game MS will have. The masses will think the ps5 is more powerful, has the better exclusives and is probably $200 cheaper to boot. I don't see that working out well for MS. 

Do you really feel AC Unity lived up to their vision? Absolutely not. Achieving a vision is not just about the hardware. Its also resources and deadlines.

I dont think the crowds was too much for 8th gen hardware, instead its the optimization wasnt there nor a good use of resources from a gameplay perspective. Later AC games were better optimized in general, still pretty dense with NPCs, but could also spend resources elsewhere.

Developers were arguably more experimental last gen with inferior specs. This gen many played it safe instead pushing visuals and more open world games. It was like gen 7.5 not because limited specs, but because it was safe from a development and sales perspective.

Series X will probably be $499 at best. That's my guess, which also tells me we need Lockhart at $299. I hope that happens, I think it would put MS in good place competitively.

Again, Series X could have fantastic visuals even while sharing a game with X1. A game like Crysis 3 demonstrated that between PC and PS360.



Recently Completed
Doom 64
for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

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Radek said:
HollyGamer said:

And you ignores missing features on 8th gen games because of 7th gen.

Games are often held back with cross gen or without cross gen, but cross gen are the primary reason and the most to be blame , this is the truth when you counted all games that has been released since video games era. 

Every games you mention are looks great on 7th gen but looks crap on 8th gen. That's the bad thing of cross gen. The scaling up is very bad it hampered the game design for next gen capabilities. 

The reason why BF4 great because it was made for 8th gen and scaled down for 7th gen. This won't happen with Microsoft current policy on parity quality across the platform. Also it will require one games to be ported and made by several team for 8th gen . Just look at Forza Horizon 2 for Xbox 360. And the result is still bad for Xbox One port, but decent for Xbox 360. 

After i saw Hell Bled 2 demo for Xbox series X exclusives , i believe this is the result of  next gen tech from Xbox series X. 

graphic and performance will also be held back by old 8thy gen, especially when game now utilize machine learning to improve graphic.

SSD is not just marketing buzz, it's really affecting game design for future. We have been stuck in HDD since PS3 era. And it's not just about loading time and streaming data. 

I don't think there's a point arguing, everybody except fanboys knows it's the true, even John from Digital Foundry said so, but some of people just don't want to admit it, I'm giving up arguing as well.

Even John essentially said games can be retooled to take advantage of newer specs and have another team reworking it for another platform.

It also depends on the project we are talking about. A typical action and narrative driven games like Hellblade 2 may work fine on X1 with scaled back assets.

If Forza 8 vastly increases CPU demands so for Series X, it possible the X1 version could drop to 30 fps to free up resources. Maybe Forza 8 would just share visual assets but run on a different engine. Like Forza Horizon 2's cross gen.

Hence, you only looked at John's words that fit your narrative. Not all the possibilities.



Recently Completed
Doom 64
for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

HollyGamer said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Again, you ignore features have been removed from the lower spec cross gen releases. Dont you recall Black Ops III removed the campaign on 7th gen?

Games are often held back without cross gen releases to blame. That's why people are always skeptical of early trailers.

No, every game I mentioned looks much better on 8th gen versus 7th gen.

If BF4 was using 8th gen as the target, why does it work so well on 7th gen? By the way, BF multiplayer is a great example of compromise on inferior specs.

Even if there is a big specs jump, not every game is going to be designed to take full advantage of possibilities or even be experiemental. It's just theoretical bullshit you're pushing.

You know what most developers are going to use 9th gen specs for? And I do mean most of the time, graphics and performance.

You're really drinking that SSD kool aid. Its gonna help load times and streaming data, but I dont buy the hype. Other specs matter significantly as well and they still have limitations.

And you ignores missing features on 8th gen games because of 7th gen.

Games are often held back with cross gen or without cross gen, but cross gen are the primary reason and the most to be blame , this is the truth when you counted all games that has been released since video games era. 

Every games you mention are looks great on 7th gen but looks crap on 8th gen. That's the bad thing of cross gen. The scaling up is very bad it hampered the game design for next gen capabilities. 

The reason why BF4 great because it was made for 8th gen and scaled down for 7th gen. This won't happen with Microsoft current policy on parity quality across the platform. Also it will require one games to be ported and made by several team for 8th gen . Just look at Forza Horizon 2 for Xbox 360. And the result is still bad for Xbox One port, but decent for Xbox 360. 

After i saw Hell Bled 2 demo for Xbox series X exclusives , i believe this is the result of  next gen tech from Xbox series X. 

graphic and performance will also be held back by old 8thy gen, especially when game now utilize machine learning to improve graphic.

SSD is not just marketing buzz, it's really affecting game design for future. We have been stuck in HDD since PS3 era. And it's not just about loading time and streaming data. 

Again, you don't really know why some cross gen games have features removed. Its very common for games to get scaled back even when there is no cross gen release happening. Often games get scaled back to achieve a release date or quick optimization, games have released broken many times for that reason. Your argument is just invalid taking that into consideration.

Watchdogs for example had solid visuals for early 8th gen games, but that also had a significant compromise on resolution while having some performance issues. Therefore its not surprising they had to cut back on effects just to make them perform well while achieving their launch window.

The cross gen games are early content, its generally not going to be the best looking content during a gen. You're neglecting that obvious point.

"The reason why BF4 great because it was made for 8th gen and scaled down for 7th gen." Thank you for finally pointing out what I've been saying. If you start with 8th gen as the lead, compromises can often be made for the previous gen. Especially if its a fairly typical action game running on a good engine.

Are you suggesting Forza Horizon 2 looks bad on X1? Its has great visuals in an open world game, dynamic weather, locked at 30 fps and its 1080p, something the hardware struggles with in AAA games. Your opinion there is objectively wrong.

The speed data is streamed is also dependent on other specs. The X1X improved loading and streaming issues by having a faster CPU and more/faster RAM to work with when there was bottleneck. In some case, the X1X even cuts load times in half using the same storage tech.

Sony is misleading people into believing Spiderman streams and loads faster on PS5 solely because of SSD optimization. The reality is faster CPU and increased RAM capabilities is doing much of the heavy lifting in their demo.

Here are examples of how X1X improves load times...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrOxN6uV_4k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cplUf_VUea0



Recently Completed
Doom 64
for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

d21lewis said:
Sounds very consumer friendly though I wonder how the original Xbox (of which I have two) will stack up to the Series X. I imagine it will have a tough time. Not for me to figure out, though. I'll just play on the hardware I have until I feel like it's time to upgrade.

Right, I may not upgrade to 9th gen given I already have X1X consoles, I've been less avid about gaming recently and they already pump out visuals I am content with.

I feel there were interesting 7th gen games that were simply scaled back PC and 8th gen games. People also seem content with Switch ports of 8th gen content. So I'm curious to see how they make cross gen work for the length of the promised support.

People are speaking as if MS promised an entire gen of cross gen. It might just be 2020 and 2021.



Recently Completed
Doom 64
for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Mr Puggsly said:
d21lewis said:
Sounds very consumer friendly though I wonder how the original Xbox (of which I have two) will stack up to the Series X. I imagine it will have a tough time. Not for me to figure out, though. I'll just play on the hardware I have until I feel like it's time to upgrade.

Right, I may not upgrade to 9th gen given I already have X1X consoles, I've been less avid about gaming recently and they already pump out visuals I am content with.

I feel there were interesting 7th gen games that were simply scaled back PC and 8th gen games. People also seem content with Switch ports of 8th gen content. So I'm curious to see how they make cross gen work for the length of the promised support.

People are speaking as if MS promised an entire gen of cross gen. It might just be 2020 and 2021.

Same. Currently have two OGs, two XBOs, and an XBO X--along with pretty much every other console (Switch, PS4 and PS4 Pro, etc). I don't really feel compelled to play anything these days besides old familiar games I've already beaten several times. No rush to jump on 9th gen games for me. If anything, maybe my hardware will get new life thanks to a library of 9th gen games. 

We've been brainwashed to think there can only be one winner in the world of gaming but if companies are making money, there's room for everyone. Just like in every other industry. 



Twitter: @d21lewis  --I'll add you if you add me!!

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Mr Puggsly said:
goopy20 said:

MAybe they could have but then they wouldn't have been able to make the game according to the vision they had. The huge crowds was obviously a step too far and it didn't really add much to the game, but that had more to do with the limitations of the crappy CPU's in current gen consoles. But it was still something that was supposed to be a core gameplay mechanic, even if it didn't really work out. I'm sure developers have tons of ideas for core gameplay mechanics that will be made possible by this next gen hardware, but that will simply be limited when developers need to keep in mind that they have to deliver a similar gameplay experience on current gen consoles. 

In any case, I just think it's a very bad idea for MS. If the rumors are true and they really will come out with a $700 beast of a console that's 30% more powerful than the ps5, they should immediately showcase it. But as it is, Sony will probably come out swinging with another From ps5 exclusive and a bunch of 1st party games, that will simply look better than any cross gen game MS will have. The masses will think the ps5 is more powerful, has the better exclusives and is probably $200 cheaper to boot. I don't see that working out well for MS. 

Do you really feel AC Unity lived up to their vision? Absolutely not. Achieving a vision is not just about the hardware. Its also resources and deadlines.

I dont think the crowds was too much for 8th gen hardware, instead its the optimization wasnt there nor a good use of resources from a gameplay perspective. Later AC games were better optimized in general, still pretty dense with NPCs, but could also spend resources elsewhere.

Developers were arguably more experimental last gen with inferior specs. This gen many played it safe instead pushing visuals and more open world games. It was like gen 7.5 not because limited specs, but because it was safe from a development and sales perspective.

Series X will probably be $499 at best. That's my guess, which also tells me we need Lockhart at $299. I hope that happens, I think it would put MS in good place competitively.

Again, Series X could have fantastic visuals even while sharing a game with X1. A game like Crysis 3 demonstrated that between PC and PS360.

Of course I don't, but that they did a poor job on Unity is besides the point. The point is that they chose to simultaneously release 2 completely different games because their ambitions for Unity wouldn't be possible if they had to port the core game experience to ps3/360 as well. 



d21lewis said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Right, I may not upgrade to 9th gen given I already have X1X consoles, I've been less avid about gaming recently and they already pump out visuals I am content with.

I feel there were interesting 7th gen games that were simply scaled back PC and 8th gen games. People also seem content with Switch ports of 8th gen content. So I'm curious to see how they make cross gen work for the length of the promised support.

People are speaking as if MS promised an entire gen of cross gen. It might just be 2020 and 2021.

Same. Currently have two OGs, two XBOs, and an XBO X--along with pretty much every other console (Switch, PS4 and PS4 Pro, etc). I don't really feel compelled to play anything these days besides old familiar games I've already beaten several times. No rush to jump on 9th gen games for me. If anything, maybe my hardware will get new life thanks to a library of 9th gen games. 

We've been brainwashed to think there can only be one winner in the world of gaming but if companies are making money, there's room for everyone. Just like in every other industry. 

Of course there can only be one winner, that doesn't mean that whoever doesn't win have done bad.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

DonFerrari said:
d21lewis said:

Same. Currently have two OGs, two XBOs, and an XBO X--along with pretty much every other console (Switch, PS4 and PS4 Pro, etc). I don't really feel compelled to play anything these days besides old familiar games I've already beaten several times. No rush to jump on 9th gen games for me. If anything, maybe my hardware will get new life thanks to a library of 9th gen games. 

We've been brainwashed to think there can only be one winner in the world of gaming but if companies are making money, there's room for everyone. Just like in every other industry. 

Of course there can only be one winner, that doesn't mean that whoever doesn't win have done bad.

Depends on what your idea of winning is. Sales? Profits? Games? Power? Features? One could argue that every company won the 7th gen.

But let's be honest. The Wii won. 😉



Twitter: @d21lewis  --I'll add you if you add me!!

DonFerrari said:

eeeer no, they haven't said anything about releasing crossgen for two years after PS5 debut. Sure you may say several of their studios won't have games ready in the first 2 years, but that isn't the same thing.

Different strategies, simular results in the end.

Radek said:

Imagine a PC game being made for running on GTX 660 and i3 as minimum requirement and then imagine PC game being made for running with GTX 1060, SSD and Ryzen 5 as minimum requirement.

Even at 1440p or 4K which one do you think will have higher quality graphics and more complex AI and physics (despite of resolution)

And I was being generous with GTX 660 as Xbox One has something even less powerful, GTX 660 is PS4 level GPU.

I mean come on, it's 2020 and even $150 GTX 1650 Super is faster than PS4 Pro 4.2 Tflops GPU!

I'm playing Gears 5 and it runs great on my new RX 5700 XT, Ultra details and 4K I'm getting 60 fps, but if that game was designed with only Xbox One X in mind, I wouldn't be getting more than 30 fps in 4K on ultra and the game would look next gen already.

And Xbox One X is already less powerful than Lockhart even will be, I wish Xbox One X became the lowest available Xbox for 2020-2022 games.

So when games like God of War were made, it wasnt held back by PS4 hardware when RTX-2080 GPUs were on the market? God of War still turned out pretty and so did Gears 5, lets also add TLOU2. It doesn't seem like older limited hardware is affecting the bigger AAA game developments and companie's vision.

A good developer will create a good game regardless of console limitations and BOTW is a perfect example of that.

Games can always look better regardless if they choose to use the latest console.

Last edited by Azzanation - 6 days ago

Mr Puggsly said:
HollyGamer said:

And you ignores missing features on 8th gen games because of 7th gen.

Games are often held back with cross gen or without cross gen, but cross gen are the primary reason and the most to be blame , this is the truth when you counted all games that has been released since video games era. 

Every games you mention are looks great on 7th gen but looks crap on 8th gen. That's the bad thing of cross gen. The scaling up is very bad it hampered the game design for next gen capabilities. 

The reason why BF4 great because it was made for 8th gen and scaled down for 7th gen. This won't happen with Microsoft current policy on parity quality across the platform. Also it will require one games to be ported and made by several team for 8th gen . Just look at Forza Horizon 2 for Xbox 360. And the result is still bad for Xbox One port, but decent for Xbox 360. 

After i saw Hell Bled 2 demo for Xbox series X exclusives , i believe this is the result of  next gen tech from Xbox series X. 

graphic and performance will also be held back by old 8thy gen, especially when game now utilize machine learning to improve graphic.

SSD is not just marketing buzz, it's really affecting game design for future. We have been stuck in HDD since PS3 era. And it's not just about loading time and streaming data. 

Again, you don't really know why some cross gen games have features removed. Its very common for games to get scaled back even when there is no cross gen release happening. Often games get scaled back to achieve a release date or quick optimization, games have released broken many times for that reason. Your argument is just invalid taking that into consideration.

Watchdogs for example had solid visuals for early 8th gen games, but that also had a significant compromise on resolution while having some performance issues. Therefore its not surprising they had to cut back on effects just to make them perform well while achieving their launch window.

The cross gen games are early content, its generally not going to be the best looking content during a gen. You're neglecting that obvious point.

"The reason why BF4 great because it was made for 8th gen and scaled down for 7th gen." Thank you for finally pointing out what I've been saying. If you start with 8th gen as the lead, compromises can often be made for the previous gen. Especially if its a fairly typical action game running on a good engine.

Are you suggesting Forza Horizon 2 looks bad on X1? Its has great visuals in an open world game, dynamic weather, locked at 30 fps and its 1080p, something the hardware struggles with in AAA games. Your opinion there is objectively wrong.

The speed data is streamed is also dependent on other specs. The X1X improved loading and streaming issues by having a faster CPU and more/faster RAM to work with when there was bottleneck. In some case, the X1X even cuts load times in half using the same storage tech.

Sony is misleading people into believing Spiderman streams and loads faster on PS5 solely because of SSD optimization. The reality is faster CPU and increased RAM capabilities is doing much of the heavy lifting in their demo.

Here are examples of how X1X improves load times...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrOxN6uV_4k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cplUf_VUea0

LOL, you back and forth arguing . In fact Microsoft just shows us what Hellblade 2 can do if the games are made using Xbox X  targeted spec. Hellblade looks like CGI in vast open world. I bet this cannot be done if it's Cross gen games. 

Forza 3 are much bigger and better than Forza 2, Assassin's Creed Unity are much bigger and better NPC  compared to Assassin's Creed 4 Black Flag (cross gen tittle) except for gameplay and stories. Death Stranding look much better on PS4 far better even then ultra quality graphic of Metal Gear Solid 5 (both are made by the same Kojima pro one is PS4 exclusives and one is cross gen and cross platform).

Now you can watch the video