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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - MS: 1st party Xbox games will be cross-gen for "next year, two years"

Mr Puggsly on 14 January 2020
d21lewis said:
Sounds very consumer friendly though I wonder how the original Xbox (of which I have two) will stack up to the Series X. I imagine it will have a tough time. Not for me to figure out, though. I'll just play on the hardware I have until I feel like it's time to upgrade.

Right, I may not upgrade to 9th gen given I already have X1X consoles, I've been less avid about gaming recently and they already pump out visuals I am content with.

I feel there were interesting 7th gen games that were simply scaled back PC and 8th gen games. People also seem content with Switch ports of 8th gen content. So I'm curious to see how they make cross gen work for the length of the promised support.

People are speaking as if MS promised an entire gen of cross gen. It might just be 2020 and 2021.



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d21lewis on 14 January 2020
Mr Puggsly said:
d21lewis said:
Sounds very consumer friendly though I wonder how the original Xbox (of which I have two) will stack up to the Series X. I imagine it will have a tough time. Not for me to figure out, though. I'll just play on the hardware I have until I feel like it's time to upgrade.

Right, I may not upgrade to 9th gen given I already have X1X consoles, I've been less avid about gaming recently and they already pump out visuals I am content with.

I feel there were interesting 7th gen games that were simply scaled back PC and 8th gen games. People also seem content with Switch ports of 8th gen content. So I'm curious to see how they make cross gen work for the length of the promised support.

People are speaking as if MS promised an entire gen of cross gen. It might just be 2020 and 2021.

Same. Currently have two OGs, two XBOs, and an XBO X--along with pretty much every other console (Switch, PS4 and PS4 Pro, etc). I don't really feel compelled to play anything these days besides old familiar games I've already beaten several times. No rush to jump on 9th gen games for me. If anything, maybe my hardware will get new life thanks to a library of 9th gen games. 

We've been brainwashed to think there can only be one winner in the world of gaming but if companies are making money, there's room for everyone. Just like in every other industry. 



goopy20 on 14 January 2020
Mr Puggsly said:
goopy20 said:

MAybe they could have but then they wouldn't have been able to make the game according to the vision they had. The huge crowds was obviously a step too far and it didn't really add much to the game, but that had more to do with the limitations of the crappy CPU's in current gen consoles. But it was still something that was supposed to be a core gameplay mechanic, even if it didn't really work out. I'm sure developers have tons of ideas for core gameplay mechanics that will be made possible by this next gen hardware, but that will simply be limited when developers need to keep in mind that they have to deliver a similar gameplay experience on current gen consoles. 

In any case, I just think it's a very bad idea for MS. If the rumors are true and they really will come out with a $700 beast of a console that's 30% more powerful than the ps5, they should immediately showcase it. But as it is, Sony will probably come out swinging with another From ps5 exclusive and a bunch of 1st party games, that will simply look better than any cross gen game MS will have. The masses will think the ps5 is more powerful, has the better exclusives and is probably $200 cheaper to boot. I don't see that working out well for MS. 

Do you really feel AC Unity lived up to their vision? Absolutely not. Achieving a vision is not just about the hardware. Its also resources and deadlines.

I dont think the crowds was too much for 8th gen hardware, instead its the optimization wasnt there nor a good use of resources from a gameplay perspective. Later AC games were better optimized in general, still pretty dense with NPCs, but could also spend resources elsewhere.

Developers were arguably more experimental last gen with inferior specs. This gen many played it safe instead pushing visuals and more open world games. It was like gen 7.5 not because limited specs, but because it was safe from a development and sales perspective.

Series X will probably be $499 at best. That's my guess, which also tells me we need Lockhart at $299. I hope that happens, I think it would put MS in good place competitively.

Again, Series X could have fantastic visuals even while sharing a game with X1. A game like Crysis 3 demonstrated that between PC and PS360.

Of course I don't, but that they did a poor job on Unity is besides the point. The point is that they chose to simultaneously release 2 completely different games because their ambitions for Unity wouldn't be possible if they had to port the core game experience to ps3/360 as well. 



DonFerrari on 14 January 2020
d21lewis said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Right, I may not upgrade to 9th gen given I already have X1X consoles, I've been less avid about gaming recently and they already pump out visuals I am content with.

I feel there were interesting 7th gen games that were simply scaled back PC and 8th gen games. People also seem content with Switch ports of 8th gen content. So I'm curious to see how they make cross gen work for the length of the promised support.

People are speaking as if MS promised an entire gen of cross gen. It might just be 2020 and 2021.

Same. Currently have two OGs, two XBOs, and an XBO X--along with pretty much every other console (Switch, PS4 and PS4 Pro, etc). I don't really feel compelled to play anything these days besides old familiar games I've already beaten several times. No rush to jump on 9th gen games for me. If anything, maybe my hardware will get new life thanks to a library of 9th gen games. 

We've been brainwashed to think there can only be one winner in the world of gaming but if companies are making money, there's room for everyone. Just like in every other industry. 

Of course there can only be one winner, that doesn't mean that whoever doesn't win have done bad.



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d21lewis on 14 January 2020
DonFerrari said:
d21lewis said:

Same. Currently have two OGs, two XBOs, and an XBO X--along with pretty much every other console (Switch, PS4 and PS4 Pro, etc). I don't really feel compelled to play anything these days besides old familiar games I've already beaten several times. No rush to jump on 9th gen games for me. If anything, maybe my hardware will get new life thanks to a library of 9th gen games. 

We've been brainwashed to think there can only be one winner in the world of gaming but if companies are making money, there's room for everyone. Just like in every other industry. 

Of course there can only be one winner, that doesn't mean that whoever doesn't win have done bad.

Depends on what your idea of winning is. Sales? Profits? Games? Power? Features? One could argue that every company won the 7th gen.

But let's be honest. The Wii won. 😉



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Azzanation on 14 January 2020
DonFerrari said:

eeeer no, they haven't said anything about releasing crossgen for two years after PS5 debut. Sure you may say several of their studios won't have games ready in the first 2 years, but that isn't the same thing.

Different strategies, simular results in the end.

Radek said:

Imagine a PC game being made for running on GTX 660 and i3 as minimum requirement and then imagine PC game being made for running with GTX 1060, SSD and Ryzen 5 as minimum requirement.

Even at 1440p or 4K which one do you think will have higher quality graphics and more complex AI and physics (despite of resolution)

And I was being generous with GTX 660 as Xbox One has something even less powerful, GTX 660 is PS4 level GPU.

I mean come on, it's 2020 and even $150 GTX 1650 Super is faster than PS4 Pro 4.2 Tflops GPU!

I'm playing Gears 5 and it runs great on my new RX 5700 XT, Ultra details and 4K I'm getting 60 fps, but if that game was designed with only Xbox One X in mind, I wouldn't be getting more than 30 fps in 4K on ultra and the game would look next gen already.

And Xbox One X is already less powerful than Lockhart even will be, I wish Xbox One X became the lowest available Xbox for 2020-2022 games.

So when games like God of War were made, it wasnt held back by PS4 hardware when RTX-2080 GPUs were on the market? God of War still turned out pretty and so did Gears 5, lets also add TLOU2. It doesn't seem like older limited hardware is affecting the bigger AAA game developments and companie's vision.

A good developer will create a good game regardless of console limitations and BOTW is a perfect example of that.

Games can always look better regardless if they choose to use the latest console.

Last edited by Azzanation - on 14 January 2020

HollyGamer on 14 January 2020
Mr Puggsly said:
HollyGamer said:

And you ignores missing features on 8th gen games because of 7th gen.

Games are often held back with cross gen or without cross gen, but cross gen are the primary reason and the most to be blame , this is the truth when you counted all games that has been released since video games era. 

Every games you mention are looks great on 7th gen but looks crap on 8th gen. That's the bad thing of cross gen. The scaling up is very bad it hampered the game design for next gen capabilities. 

The reason why BF4 great because it was made for 8th gen and scaled down for 7th gen. This won't happen with Microsoft current policy on parity quality across the platform. Also it will require one games to be ported and made by several team for 8th gen . Just look at Forza Horizon 2 for Xbox 360. And the result is still bad for Xbox One port, but decent for Xbox 360. 

After i saw Hell Bled 2 demo for Xbox series X exclusives , i believe this is the result of  next gen tech from Xbox series X. 

graphic and performance will also be held back by old 8thy gen, especially when game now utilize machine learning to improve graphic.

SSD is not just marketing buzz, it's really affecting game design for future. We have been stuck in HDD since PS3 era. And it's not just about loading time and streaming data. 

Again, you don't really know why some cross gen games have features removed. Its very common for games to get scaled back even when there is no cross gen release happening. Often games get scaled back to achieve a release date or quick optimization, games have released broken many times for that reason. Your argument is just invalid taking that into consideration.

Watchdogs for example had solid visuals for early 8th gen games, but that also had a significant compromise on resolution while having some performance issues. Therefore its not surprising they had to cut back on effects just to make them perform well while achieving their launch window.

The cross gen games are early content, its generally not going to be the best looking content during a gen. You're neglecting that obvious point.

"The reason why BF4 great because it was made for 8th gen and scaled down for 7th gen." Thank you for finally pointing out what I've been saying. If you start with 8th gen as the lead, compromises can often be made for the previous gen. Especially if its a fairly typical action game running on a good engine.

Are you suggesting Forza Horizon 2 looks bad on X1? Its has great visuals in an open world game, dynamic weather, locked at 30 fps and its 1080p, something the hardware struggles with in AAA games. Your opinion there is objectively wrong.

The speed data is streamed is also dependent on other specs. The X1X improved loading and streaming issues by having a faster CPU and more/faster RAM to work with when there was bottleneck. In some case, the X1X even cuts load times in half using the same storage tech.

Sony is misleading people into believing Spiderman streams and loads faster on PS5 solely because of SSD optimization. The reality is faster CPU and increased RAM capabilities is doing much of the heavy lifting in their demo.

Here are examples of how X1X improves load times...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrOxN6uV_4k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cplUf_VUea0

LOL, you back and forth arguing . In fact Microsoft just shows us what Hellblade 2 can do if the games are made using Xbox X  targeted spec. Hellblade looks like CGI in vast open world. I bet this cannot be done if it's Cross gen games. 

Forza 3 are much bigger and better than Forza 2, Assassin's Creed Unity are much bigger and better NPC  compared to Assassin's Creed 4 Black Flag (cross gen tittle) except for gameplay and stories. Death Stranding look much better on PS4 far better even then ultra quality graphic of Metal Gear Solid 5 (both are made by the same Kojima pro one is PS4 exclusives and one is cross gen and cross platform).

Now you can watch the video 



Mr Puggsly on 14 January 2020
HollyGamer said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Again, you don't really know why some cross gen games have features removed. Its very common for games to get scaled back even when there is no cross gen release happening. Often games get scaled back to achieve a release date or quick optimization, games have released broken many times for that reason. Your argument is just invalid taking that into consideration.

Watchdogs for example had solid visuals for early 8th gen games, but that also had a significant compromise on resolution while having some performance issues. Therefore its not surprising they had to cut back on effects just to make them perform well while achieving their launch window.

The cross gen games are early content, its generally not going to be the best looking content during a gen. You're neglecting that obvious point.

"The reason why BF4 great because it was made for 8th gen and scaled down for 7th gen." Thank you for finally pointing out what I've been saying. If you start with 8th gen as the lead, compromises can often be made for the previous gen. Especially if its a fairly typical action game running on a good engine.

Are you suggesting Forza Horizon 2 looks bad on X1? Its has great visuals in an open world game, dynamic weather, locked at 30 fps and its 1080p, something the hardware struggles with in AAA games. Your opinion there is objectively wrong.

The speed data is streamed is also dependent on other specs. The X1X improved loading and streaming issues by having a faster CPU and more/faster RAM to work with when there was bottleneck. In some case, the X1X even cuts load times in half using the same storage tech.

Sony is misleading people into believing Spiderman streams and loads faster on PS5 solely because of SSD optimization. The reality is faster CPU and increased RAM capabilities is doing much of the heavy lifting in their demo.

Here are examples of how X1X improves load times...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrOxN6uV_4k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cplUf_VUea0

LOL, you back and forth arguing . In fact Microsoft just shows us what Hellblade 2 can do if the games are made using Xbox X  targeted spec. Hellblade looks like CGI in vast open world. I bet this cannot be done if it's Cross gen games. 

Forza 3 are much bigger and better than Forza 2, Assassin's Creed Unity are much bigger and better NPC  compared to Assassin's Creed 4 Black Flag (cross gen tittle) except for gameplay and stories. Death Stranding look much better on PS4 far better even then ultra quality graphic of Metal Gear Solid 5 (both are made by the same Kojima pro one is PS4 exclusives and one is cross gen and cross platform).

Now you can watch the video 

Wow, Hellblade 2 is in a vast open world? That's gonna be so unique to 9th gen. We never saw that in the 6th gen or anything. Also, what if Hellblade 2 on X1 simply uses scaled back assets maybe at par with 8th gen games?

What are you babbling about? I played both Forza Horizon 2 and 3 thoroughly. Both have open worlds with tons of detail in the environment.

The NPCs in AC Unity mostly just stood there with janky pop in and animation. Most people admit they had little impact on the core game.

MGSV is also years older, on a different engine and 60 fps. Death Stranding didn't come early in the life of PS4. Optimization can improve after several years, maybe you didn't get the memo.

"Leaving people behind is what next gen is all about." Except for all the cross gen games. He agree cross gen games are feasible, but it requires compromise and he personally doesn't want to play them.

They are essentially making the same points I am. Switch gets ports with much less power. There are ways to lower specs overhead with optimization or even changing aspects of the game.

They aren't saying its impossible to make more ambitious game for 9th gen while supporting X1.



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Mr Puggsly on 14 January 2020
Radek said:

Right at the start at 3:00 mark John says he's very worried about Jaguar cores and HDD holding back Xbox Series X games...

but some people here will keep arguing otherwise..

Its a 25 minute video, they also discuss compromises 7th gen and Switch ports made. They were functional ports intended for vastly superior specs.

I think its fun people point out flying an open world game is extremely taxing. Meanwhile GTAIV/V did it, Far Cry 3/4 did, Skyrim did it and so did numerous other titles. Its like we are pretending ambitious games never existed in previous gens.



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LudicrousSpeed on 14 January 2020
Radek said:

Right at the start at 3:00 mark John says he's very worried about Jaguar cores and HDD holding back Xbox Series X games...

but some people here will keep arguing otherwise..

His arguments are literally the same thing we’ve all been saying in this thread already, and we don’t even work at DigitalFoundry.

Also why do people keep incorrectly talking about how this is the first two years of XSX? The quote was the next one or two years. It could literally just be launch games, who knows 😆