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MS: 1st party Xbox games will be cross-gen for "next year, two years"

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Azzanation said:
DonFerrari said:
From their previous interviews that was expected and is pretty reasonable and common, still I expect Sony to fast jump to next gen.

Sony's appoach is no different to MS's when you think about it.

Santa Monica, Naughty Dog, Sucker Punch etc all won't have games ready for PS5 until years after launch (Aside from there ports) Same with MS, once all there 1st batch of games come out from there internal studios, it will take atleast 2 years for there 2nd batch of games to release and thats when the Series X is built in mind. Same goes for Sony's studios who recently had games released.

I'm sorry, but what makes you think that the likes of Guerrilla, Insomniac, Japan Studio, and San Diego won't have games ready within the first year or 2? Or that ND's MP game is not within the 1st year of the PS5? And collaboration games with studios like Bluepoint etc?



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twintail said:
Azzanation said:

Sony's appoach is no different to MS's when you think about it.

Santa Monica, Naughty Dog, Sucker Punch etc all won't have games ready for PS5 until years after launch (Aside from there ports) Same with MS, once all there 1st batch of games come out from there internal studios, it will take atleast 2 years for there 2nd batch of games to release and thats when the Series X is built in mind. Same goes for Sony's studios who recently had games released.

I'm sorry, but what makes you think that the likes of Guerrilla, Insomniac, Japan Studio, and San Diego won't have games ready within the first year or 2? Or that ND's MP game is not within the 1st year of the PS5? And collaboration games with studios like Bluepoint etc?

Maybe they might, however if you release a full fledge AAA game this year or last year than on average it takes a couple years minimum to create another full fledge AAA game. ND are releasing TLOU 2 so there next game should be atleast 2022. I wouldnt be counting a chopped feature from TLOU 2 as a good example.



Azzanation said:
twintail said:

I'm sorry, but what makes you think that the likes of Guerrilla, Insomniac, Japan Studio, and San Diego won't have games ready within the first year or 2? Or that ND's MP game is not within the 1st year of the PS5? And collaboration games with studios like Bluepoint etc?

Maybe they might, however if you release a full fledge AAA game this year or last year than on average it takes a couple years minimum to create another full fledge AAA game. ND are releasing TLOU 2 so there next game should be atleast 2022. I wouldnt be counting a chopped feature from TLOU 2 as a good example.

Yeah but that doesn't apply to all of Sony's studios. Some will have games ready for launch, 1st and 2nd year.

As for the ND MP game, depends what it ends up being, but they have a separate team i believe



Radek said:

You can't be serious, PS4 and Xbox One CPU's could barely handle these huge crowds with drops to 15 fps and you expected PS3 version?

Please just stop, some games are just not possible on older consoles without drastically changing the game.

Do people consider games are just poorly optimized sometimes?

Also, you obviously didnt read what I said. The large crowds in AC Unity were just aesthetic, had little to do with core gameplay.

Dead Rising 3 and 4 had more interaction with large crowds of AI.

On a side note, werent there numerous Dynansty Warriors style of games with huge crowds of enemies on 6th and 7th gen? Even State of Emergency on PS2 had lots of NPCs running around.

More importantly, AC Unity serves as an example more ambitious games can ultimately be bad. AC Rogue was the better game that year.



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twintail said:
Azzanation said:

Maybe they might, however if you release a full fledge AAA game this year or last year than on average it takes a couple years minimum to create another full fledge AAA game. ND are releasing TLOU 2 so there next game should be atleast 2022. I wouldnt be counting a chopped feature from TLOU 2 as a good example.

Yeah but that doesn't apply to all of Sony's studios. Some will have games ready for launch, 1st and 2nd year.

As for the ND MP game, depends what it ends up being, but they have a separate team i believe

I agree, i never said all of there studios, just those who have recently released games. Same can also be said for some of the Xbox Studios, like The Initiative, The Coalition and Playground Games. There next games possibly wont come out until after the 2 years cross gen rule.

Last edited by Azzanation - on 14 January 2020

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Mr Puggsly said:
Radek said:

You can't be serious, PS4 and Xbox One CPU's could barely handle these huge crowds with drops to 15 fps and you expected PS3 version?

Please just stop, some games are just not possible on older consoles without drastically changing the game.

Do people consider games are just poorly optimized sometimes?

Also, you obviously didnt read what I said. The large crowds in AC Unity were just aesthetic, had little to do with core gameplay.

Dead Rising 3 and 4 had more interaction with large crowds of AI.

On a side note, werent there numerous Dynansty Warriors style of games with huge crowds of enemies on 6th and 7th gen? Even State of Emergency on PS2 had lots of NPCs running around.

More importantly, AC Unity serves as an example more ambitious games can ultimately be bad. AC Rogue was the better game that year.

No, they just pushed current gen CPU too far. Any i5 processor powers through Unity crowds at 60 fps. This wouldn't work on PS3 and 360 at all.



HollyGamer said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Lol yeah

What is old game design concept?

Infamous:SS and Killzone didnt have openworld's with hundreds of NPCs.

Its actually more valid to say PS3 and 360 couldnt handle something like Dead Rising 3 and 4. That actually was open world with tons of NPCs.

Titanfall was a terribly optimized game, period. It didnt hold 60 fps and it was 768p I think with underwhelming graphics. Halo MCC looks better with 360 assets and effects. Also does a better job at resolution and performance.

Watchdogs actually looked pretty good compared to many other early 8th gen games. Did you actually play a 7th gen version? They're playable but look and run awful.

Most importantly, you're neglecting Battlefield 4 and Hardline. Those games still look great inspite of beimg multiplat.

CoD AW also looked great. It was the last time that series held 60 fps well on a base X1 and PS4.

Then there was Shadow or Mordor. 8th gen was the lead and looked great for the time. Meanwhile 7th gen got trash ports.

John Lineman from Digital Foundry has spoken about how future games "design "  will be held back, hampered and limit by current gen tech if games design for cross gen.  

Many games from last gen already prove this, many games came as cross gen games look bad event on PC and PS4/Xbox One thanks to old hardware limit the potential.

games like Watchdog, Titanfall etc.

Battlefield 4 was design using PC not PS3 nor Xbox 360. If games were design using Xbox One then Xbox series X will just look plain ugly with just better resolution and better frame rates . If games are designed using Xbox series X and then  scaling down will probably  better instead using Xbox One as standard.  But still some aspect on Xbox Series X will still be held down due to parity on game design across  Xbox platform. 

That's why New 3DS games has games has that cannot playable on old 3DS hardware , or perhaps PC has certain minimum requirement on it, because the games was build upun new foundation and new hardware. You can scale down games but you cannot scale up game design based on low spec machine.  

He makes my exact point. "games that did appear on 360 and XO required separate teams with their own budgets." This is what I keep saying! If the 9th gen version is the lead, then some other studio can retool it to be a functional 8th gen game. That's exactly how several 360 and X1 cross gen games were handled. Forza Horizon 2 on 360 was essentially recreated on the Forza Horizon 1 engine.

You didnt need DF to explain this shit, I have been talking to you directly.

There are cross gen games that look bad, but not all do. BF, Destiny, Shadow of Mordor, Watchdogs, Evil Within, Thief and other titles look solid for cross gen releases and early 8th gen games in general. There are also 8th gen exclusives that look like shit. Your argument is invalid.

Why does it matter if BF4 was designed for PC first? Its a great looking cross gen game. It's the engine that scales. Your argument is again invalid.

I agree if a game is being worked on with 8th gen in mind first, that can compromise some aspects of a game. But you still need significantly more GPU power, RAM and CPU power to turn many X1 games into 4K, 60 fps with next gen assets. RDR2 for example needs the rumored Series X power just to become 4K, 60 fps with improved visuals on a console.

Lastly and most importantly. Cross gen of AAA content is only promised for a couple years. That will be a small fraction of the gen. Games simply being fun is more important than cutting edge. This is why many of the most actively played games at moment are fairly simple technically. Even on Steam people flock to games with low spec requirements. Meanwhile GTAV keeps doing well in sales, a 7th gen game.



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goopy20 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

It seemed like AC Unity was barely possible on the consoles they made it for. It ran like trash, had jarring pop in and the gameplay was basically the same.

The large crowds were neat, I assume not possible on last gen, but had no real significance to gameplay. I say this as someone who completed both games you mentioned.

I am simply suggesting Ubisoft could have made a version of AC Unity on 7th gen and capture the core gameplay just fine. The large crowds were really aesthetic.

AC Unity was actually a smaller scale game than previous entries. They put more detail inside buildings, but created a smaller world.

It's true that AC Unity wasn't great, had a lot of technical problems and the crowds didn't add much to the game. But that still doesn't change the fact that they chose to make two different games in order to support ps3/360 and make the full next gen leap to ps4/Xone with Unity. And like I said, why do you think there isn't going to be a Cyberpunk port for the Switch, when they did port the Witcher 3?  

Well its cwrtainly possible they could have scaled back AC Unity to work on 7th gen. Ofcourse that would require greatly scaled back assets. It would probably run like trash as well.

Another route would be recreating AC Unity on ACIV's engine. If the enviornment, story and new combat system was essentially intact, who would care? It might have actually been better.

But what do I really expect from cross gen games on X1 and Series X? I imagine these upcoming games are being designed to work with X1 in mind, but these could also be the most ambitious games ever designed by MS that also happen to be on X1.

I think the expectations for early next gen content is a tad unrealistic to begin with.

If Cyberpunk works on 8th gen, then I can't help but think Cyberpunk might be feasible on Switch.



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It doesn't matter how people construe it to make it sound positive.

Sony has made it unmistakable clear to fully commit to the next generation.

http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2020/01/ps5_will_have_exclusive_games_you_cant_play_anywhere_else


http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2019/11/sony_wants_to_transition_players_from_ps4_to_ps5_at_an_unprecedented_pace

Whereas Microsoft gives this statement covered by an aura of vagueness and uncertainty.



Hunting Season is done...

Mr Puggsly said:
HollyGamer said:

John Lineman from Digital Foundry has spoken about how future games "design "  will be held back, hampered and limit by current gen tech if games design for cross gen.  

Many games from last gen already prove this, many games came as cross gen games look bad event on PC and PS4/Xbox One thanks to old hardware limit the potential.

games like Watchdog, Titanfall etc.

Battlefield 4 was design using PC not PS3 nor Xbox 360. If games were design using Xbox One then Xbox series X will just look plain ugly with just better resolution and better frame rates . If games are designed using Xbox series X and then  scaling down will probably  better instead using Xbox One as standard.  But still some aspect on Xbox Series X will still be held down due to parity on game design across  Xbox platform. 

That's why New 3DS games has games has that cannot playable on old 3DS hardware , or perhaps PC has certain minimum requirement on it, because the games was build upun new foundation and new hardware. You can scale down games but you cannot scale up game design based on low spec machine.  

He makes my exact point. "games that did appear on 360 and XO required separate teams with their own budgets." This is what I keep saying! If the 9th gen version is the lead, then some other studio can retool it to be a functional 8th gen game. That's exactly how several 360 and X1 cross gen games were handled. Forza Horizon 2 on 360 was essentially recreated on the Forza Horizon 1 engine.

You didnt need DF to explain this shit, I have been talking to you directly.

There are cross gen games that look bad, but not all do. BF, Destiny, Shadow of Mordor, Watchdogs, Evil Within, Thief and other titles look solid for cross gen releases and early 8th gen games in general. There are also 8th gen exclusives that look like shit. Your argument is invalid.

Why does it matter if BF4 was designed for PC first? Its a great looking cross gen game. It's the engine that scales. Your argument is again invalid.

I agree if a game is being worked on with 8th gen in mind first, that can compromise some aspects of a game. But you still need significantly more GPU power, RAM and CPU power to turn many X1 games into 4K, 60 fps with next gen assets. RDR2 for example needs the rumored Series X power just to become 4K, 60 fps with improved visuals on a console.

Lastly and most importantly. Cross gen of AAA content is only promised for a couple years. That will be a small fraction of the gen. Games simply being fun is more important than cutting edge. This is why many of the most actively played games at moment are fairly simple technically. Even on Steam people flock to games with low spec requirements. Meanwhile GTAV keeps doing well in sales, a 7th gen game.

Even if they have seperate team and budget they will have the same quality parity by hampering the powerful console to match the same game design and vision across the platform.

I never fully disagree, but many title indeed held back by game design due to old gen. When you mentioned Destiny/ Watchdog, Evil Within, Shadow of  Mordor you lost credibility. Those games are the worst   

8th gen Destiny looks the same like 7th gen era games. Watchdog has several downgrade on animation, NPC interaction, weather effect , lightning, geometry , shaders  even on PC due to being develop for 7th gen hardware. Shadow of Mordor could have flight scene but held back by old gen and then implemented on the sequel. Evil Within is corridor games when it was cross gen games and then becoming open world on 8th gen exclusives.

Battlefield 4 actually the exception due the games were using 8th gen baseline as target spec.

Also 7th gen transition to 8th gen is small gap  especially due to changing to X86 CPU with a lot weaker then IBM Power PC computer and the Cell . The CPU do not have any big impact on 8th gen. Many compute processing was running on GPU . So there is small innovation on game design on 8th gen games.

The problem is starting on next gen. Where we will have big jump on every aspect beside graphic  from CPU , storage, I/O , Ray Tracing , 3D Audio and RAM. The jump from 8th gen to 9th gen will be on another level then 7th gen to 8th gen.

The crucial one are the SSD where it's impact game design as whole especially on open world games.