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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - MS: 1st party Xbox games will be cross-gen for "next year, two years"

HollyGamer on 12 January 2020
Mr Puggsly said:
MIXSTER37 said:

Not true Infamous Second Son on the PS4 played and looked better than any other PS3 game and the same went for Killzone Shadow Fall. The real reason why these games will be cross gen is likely because of the rumored second console that has equal or close to equal power to the XBOX One X making it so that MICROSOFT will have to make sure that it will run on the lower powered console.

I agree Infamous:SS and Killzone looked fantastic, but with vastly scaled back visuals I do believe games like them can work on PS3.

I think people forget how many ambitious games last gen had. Suddenly they cant handle open world action games and linear shooters?

You should see Assassin's Creed, Red Faction Guerilla, Bioshock games, etc. PS3 can handle pretty impressive stuff.

I completed both of those games you mentioned, there was nothing remarkable about them beyond visual polish.

LOL no 

The second bold, yes they can run but  with old game design concept. New engine and new game design like openworld, simulation and hundred NPC will not able to run well.  Even if they can, it hampering the possibility great graphic of the games that run on PS4/Xbox One (just look at Titanfall and Watchdogs look crap thanks to cross gen games) .

Last edited by HollyGamer - on 12 January 2020

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Mr Puggsly on 12 January 2020
HollyGamer said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I agree Infamous:SS and Killzone looked fantastic, but with vastly scaled back visuals I do believe games like them can work on PS3.

I think people forget how many ambitious games last gen had. Suddenly they cant handle open world action games and linear shooters?

You should see Assassin's Creed, Red Faction Guerilla, Bioshock games, etc. PS3 can handle pretty impressive stuff.

I completed both of those games you mentioned, there was nothing remarkable about them beyond visual polish.

LOL no 

The second bold, yes they can run but  with old game design concept. New engine and new game design like openworld, simulation and hundred NPC will not able to run well.  Even if they can, it hampering the possibility great graphic of the games that run on PS4/Xbox One (just look at Titanfall and Watchdogs look crap thanks to cross gen games) .

Lol yeah

What is old game design concept?

Infamous:SS and Killzone didnt have openworld's with hundreds of NPCs.

Its actually more valid to say PS3 and 360 couldnt handle something like Dead Rising 3 and 4. That actually was open world with tons of NPCs.

Titanfall was a terribly optimized game, period. It didnt hold 60 fps and it was 768p I think with underwhelming graphics. Halo MCC looks better with 360 assets and effects. Also does a better job at resolution and performance.

Watchdogs actually looked pretty good compared to many other early 8th gen games. Did you actually play a 7th gen version? They're playable but look and run awful.

Most importantly, you're neglecting Battlefield 4 and Hardline. Those games still look great inspite of beimg multiplat.

CoD AW also looked great. It was the last time that series held 60 fps well on a base X1 and PS4.

Then there was Shadow or Mordor. 8th gen was the lead and looked great for the time. Meanwhile 7th gen got trash ports.



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Mr Puggsly on 12 January 2020

I was just thinking people are concerned that games will be held back by X1. But I just started thinking, X1X's 6TF is barely enough to turn great looking X1 games into 4K, many times not enough.

Turning games like Forza Horizon 4, Gears 5 and RDR2 into 4K/60 fps experiences is already going to require much of the power Series X has.

It takes significantly more CPU power to turn 30 fps games into 60 fps, some effects also use more CPU power. The increased RAM means games can have higher quality textures. While all the GPU power can be used on increased resolution, performance, and graphics settings. Essentially Series X can be like a high end PC experience.

So even if a game is using X1 as the lead, games can still look much much better on Series X.



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PotentHerbs on 12 January 2020
LudicrousSpeed said:

So as I said, you just have a laughably off base idea of downplaying. That or you’re just overly sensitive about it. Having a genuine discussion about something isn’t downplaying. You can attribute Sony’s success this gen to whatever you want. You can disagree that MS and Nintendo’s mistakes played huge roles in their success, but pointing that out isn’t downplaying. Should we all just parrot the same PR sounding stuff you posted in those threads? Sony will dominate. Sony first party is amazing. Wow, tantalizing discussion. 

Also, those posts you’re pointing out aren’t even from Xbox people in this thread discussing Microsoft’s game strategy. So again, who cares? You said the same people ok with Microsoft ITT would be in a Horizon 2 thread shitting on Sony if they did the same thing. I called BS on that, mostly because no one cares that much about Horizon 2, but also because the idea of cross gen games at launch don’t really seem to bother us. You’re yet to prove otherwise, and a bunch of threads where people discuss stuff, mostly people not in this thread, and none of it related to cross gen games, does t help your claim. 

Lastly, I’m dismissive of all “Japanese” games, regardless of platform. Even Microsoft. Most recently, DMC5, which I played on my Scorpio from GamePass. The issue here with your rose tinted glasses is I stick mostly to Xbox threads, Nintendo fans don’t come there much, but Sony people do, and they tend to bring up Shimagoshu Rokugon Xtreme Z and how much of an edge it gives the PS4 library before it goes on to sell 29 copies 😆

Ill reply to you again if you want to admit you were wrong regarding Horizon 2. Otherwise enjoy the last word in this stupid argument.

Ironic you want to label my posts as PR. I have more positive posts about Xbox in just the last year than you have positive posts about PS throughout your whole tenure on this site. Maybe I should post more like you. 

Arguing PS winning the generation because of their competition dropping the ball, without mentioning the many factors like market presence, third party bundles, pricing, brand power, software, is absolute downplay. How can it lead to honest discourse with a viewpoint that is so devoid of context? The thread about cross play, or the thread about Sony targeting hardcore gamers with PS5, is more than enough proof to show PS related downplay. Not to mention those threads are good news for an enthusiast forum like VGC. 

Call BS all you want. Your post history tells us enough. Certain posters defending cross gen in this thread have a distinguishable history when it comes to PS related topics. Its not a stretch to believe they'd pivot arguments to take shots at a gimped Horizon, I can't even blame them if that was the case. 



yvanjean on 12 January 2020
HollyGamer said:
yvanjean said:

If all PS4 exclusive were ported to high end PC, you'd realize that all PS4 and PS4 pro games look and run like crap. Just compare game on PS4 to the PS4 Pro. I don't think anyone will support you if you claim that PS4 exclusive looks better then what can be offered on a high end PC. What they do offer is a unique experience that can only be experience on the Sony consoles. But, if you compare the actual install base of the Sony consoles and how many console owner actually own and play the exclusive games the attachment rate is surprisingly very low. 

Just look at history, OG Xbox .... no amount of secret sauce can over come system limitation. There only so far console optimization can take you, On console compare to PC, sure you dont have to worry about the system taking resource away from gaming but there is still a hardware limit to what can be achieve. Why else do you think all game can't run 1080P/60FPS on PS4 and Xbox one. Just wait till you see Last of us 2 and God of wars patched and running on the PS5. You will see what you've really been missing out and how good these game should of looked.  

That's why you have so many Xbox owner like myself that will be upgrading to Xbox Series X day one. Because we want the best of next gen console gaming, beside if you want to play the best console version of 3rd party game that will be on Xbox Series X. Beside most PS5 won't be ready at launch so there should be no reason to pick up a PS5?

We are not talking about backward compatibility ,both consoles already confirmed to have backward compatibility and will run games from old gen consoles with enhanced graphic, resolution and frame rates.  Also backward compatibility is another proof that Microsoft strategy with cross gen games is useless, because Xbox series X can already play Xbox One games without the need of Xbox series X version. 

PS4 exclusives looks better than high end PC because there is no high end PC exclusives developed for high end GPU!!!  If there is Nvidia 2080 TI exclusives then you have right to speak.

All games developed on PC until now are developed based on Xbox One original spec  from 2013 with Jaguar CPU and 1.3 teraflop. All modern games that came as multiplatform games are developed with the lowest spec  . The reason is , to make developer easy to develop and ported to high end PC and to run on mid gen refresh consoles (PS4 pro/X). High end PC like 2080 TI and mid gen refresh consoles will just scale up the games based on what old gen look like.

That's why high end PC is not representative for next gen, not because the hardware capability but because there is no exclusives games that develop to use and utilize the benefit of next gen spec on high end PC. The same thing is happening for Xbox X. All games will be just like  mid gen refresh consoles (Xbox One X /PS4 pro. Nothing new just old Xbox One games run at better frame rates , better resolution with the same graphic from Xbox One old era.   

Even if most PS5 first exclusive won't be ready (which i doubt that ) Sony still have 2 or three games prepared for PS5 exclusives from their first party  that will make PS5 more valuable to most gamers who already own Xbox. Hell even without games PS5 is a big names on US and the rest of the world and top brand name. PS5 will do just more than fine even without single games . We are talking about Xbox brand as a consoles here where it's existent is questionable to the rest of the world , hell even to US.  Xbox need exclusives to sell their console to compete with PS5. Or do you think the leser brand  like Xbox brand already become arrogant and under estimate PS5 brand as the champion ? 

 

It's clear that you know nothing about game development, it would be like asking my barber for help with tax issues. 

This site is called VGchartz, yet you seem unaware that Xbox been keeping up to the PS4 in the US. 28 million PS4 to 24.4 Xbox one.... yet somehow the Xbox brand is irrelevant even in the US.   

You've clearly never bothered with informing yourself with Video games history, the fall of Sony with PS3, rise and fall of Nintendo (Wii, WiiU & Switch). 

Microsoft pretty much gave last generation to Sony with Don Matrix weird marketing and the way they they wanted to have the Xbox Brand focus on being a multi media console. 

We about to have the start to a new generation yet your calling PS5 the champion without them having done anything.

It's clear with your statement that you have no ideas what been happening outside your Sony eco system. In order for Sony to obtain the same amount of success they would have to recreate the same environment that they had for the start of the PS4 era. That's simply not the case, Sony with the start of the Ps5 has to deal with:
*A Nintendo that is enjoying current success with Switch.
*A microsoft that has made huge invest in studios acquisition, wants to lead the industry in term of power and offer a Subscription service that Sony doesn't yet have an answer to with Gamepass. 
*There is also the launch of cloud service, with Google Stadia and Microsoft Xcloud.

Sony success is due to having sold the most console to the casual gamers. The same casual gamers that made Xbox 360 the market leader for the most part of the previous generation. You are aware that in order for Sony PS5 to be the market leader they need to have sold the most console. Also, Sony has the current market leader is the one company that stand to lose the most if the competition manage to grow their own install base compare to last generation.

Sony hasn't won anything yet when it comes to next generation and part of what you don't like with Microsoft or whatever the competition to PS5 is doing will actually appeal greatly to the casual market that picked up a PS4 last generation. Service like gamepass and being able to continues using older consoles mean alot more to this crowd then any Sony exclusives. 



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goopy20 on 13 January 2020
Mr Puggsly said:
MIXSTER37 said:

Not true Infamous Second Son on the PS4 played and looked better than any other PS3 game and the same went for Killzone Shadow Fall. The real reason why these games will be cross gen is likely because of the rumored second console that has equal or close to equal power to the XBOX One X making it so that MICROSOFT will have to make sure that it will run on the lower powered console.

I agree Infamous:SS and Killzone looked fantastic, but with vastly scaled back visuals I do believe games like them can work on PS3.

I think people forget how many ambitious games last gen had. Suddenly they cant handle open world action games and linear shooters?

You should see Assassin's Creed, Red Faction Guerilla, Bioshock games, etc. PS3 can handle pretty impressive stuff.

I completed both of those games you mentioned, there was nothing remarkable about them beyond visual polish.

If that's true then how come Ubisoft released 2 AC games in 2014 on the exact same day? AC Unity for ps4/XBO and AC Rogue for ps3/360. It's simply because AC Unity used a radically upgraded version of the game engine for Unity, which allowed for things like hundreds of NPCs on screen. Things that weren't possible to port to ps3/360.                                                                                                                                                                                                             

Like I said, not everything is scalable and can be ported. I mean why do you think Cyberpunk is not getting a release on Switch, even though they did port the Witcher 3?



Azzanation on 13 January 2020

This is a funny thread, however lets look at the positives here.

We already know some of the games like Bleeding Edge (Ninja Theory) Everwild (Rare) Grounded (Obsidian) Gears Tactics (Coalition) Wasteland 3 (Inxile) all look like X1 titles and this means that these companies next games will be built from the ground up on the Series X since we give them a space of at least 2 years to make a new game.

Than we have teams like Turn 10 which are more likely to carry over the assets of Forza 7 into Forza 8 and have it as a launch title for the Series X and being cross gen. The Initiative is also yet to show case a game at E3 so expect at least another 1 to 2 years before there game comes out, in time to be a Series X exclusives. PlayGround Games also fits the same scenario as The Initiative so expect a Series X exclusive from them as well. Also add in the likes of Hell Blade 2.

Than you have Undead Labs, Compulsion Games and Double Fine which are AA studios so expect X1 builds from them. World's Edge is also focusing on current generation with AoE4.

The beauty about all this is that these developers can focus more on substance of a game instead of focusing just on the visuals at launch *cough Ryse cough*
By having the Series X play the roll of what the X1X did this gen, it gives developers more time to really develop something better because I will always choose gameplay over graphics but since I play on PC I can get both easy.

So out of all that, we already know the games coming from most of the Xbox Studios and its quite clear the bigger ones (Aside from Halo Infinite) are still a long way off to be mention as cross gen. If anyone disagrees with me that's fine, just go ask Zelda BOTW and see how that turned out for Nintendo being a cross gen game, you know what Zelda focused on more when it released? Wasn't the visuals that's for sure, but the core substance and gameplay. The WiiU didn't hold that game back from being what is considered the game of the generation.

Last edited by Azzanation - on 13 January 2020

colafitte on 13 January 2020

Since The Leader, Shepard of XBOX fans, Phil Spencer became the boss at XBOX, They had told us......

- "Power is not that important" (when PS4 was considered more powerful than XBO)
- "Hardware sales don't matter" (when PS4 started selling 2x than XBO)
- "1st party single player games are not that important" (when they decided they wanted to bring game services like GamePass and GAAS games and cancelled games like Scalebound)
- "Power is very important" (when they announced XBO X)
- "1st party single player games are important" (when Sony started winning GOTY's and selling a lot and they started buying mid tier studios like Obsidian and Ninja Theory)
- "We don't want a face to face against PS" (now that they are selling less than competition)

I'm pretty sure that they will change the narrative the moment something changes, and they will have the nerve to act as they didn't say the opposite thing just a few months earlier. If they have a game that sells more than any other PS exclusive or if the console sells more than PS5 in even just a region, like USA or UK, they will suddenly change tactics....

Since last generation, XBOX division has been out of focus. Phil Spencer era, despite all the bought media behind and all their fanboys, has been a disaster for XBOX brand. Power and game services have not helped at all XBOX the last few years. Studios like Ninja Theory and Obsidian won't make new AAA for XBSX games at least, until 2022 or 2023. I'm so tired of hearing or seeing more about Phil Spencer every week or month than hearing about their games or their game devs. It's very telling.....

Not having only working XBSX games in 2020 and 2021 is not necessarily going to be a mistake, but games that can run on XBO from 2013 and the new console won't be as modern as they can be. They better have games that are at least GOTY contender, something that they didn't have in more than a decade....... And if PS5 has an exclusive game that is GOTY material during 2020 and 2021, well....., you all know what is going to happen.

XBOX is in a delicate situation, and don't get this the wrong way, I say XBOX, not Microsoft. Microsoft will be fine as always. In my opinion XBOX is going to become more and more irrelevant as time passes until Microsoft decides that they only want a software service like Gamepass that can be used in PC, mobiles and other consoles.

This convince me too, that XBSX is going to be more expensive than PS5 because they know they're not going to win the sales "war" against competition, and they only want a "premium console" sold at a high price that is able to sell 30M, 40M, maybe 50M with luck and still be able to have their XB Live audience paying on that platform while GamePass tries to enter in the mindset of PC and mobile gamers.

Will it work??? Only if the competition don't follow suit, because if they prove it works, Sony, the ones who brought PS Plus and PS Now first than XB doing nothing similar, will copy the same tactic, while they remain the king at everything else.

XBOX was great at the start of X360, they had their chance to become the next king, but they blew it, and i really don't know how they are going to reach a similar success like X360 era had, saleswise and profitwise.



colafitte on 13 January 2020
Azzanation said:


So out of all that, we already know the games coming from most of the Xbox Studios and its quite clear the bigger ones (Aside from Halo Infinite) are still a long way off to be mention as cross gen. If anyone disagrees with me that's fine, just go ask Zelda BOTW and see how that turned out for Nintendo being a cross gen game, you know what Zelda focused on more when it released? Wasn't the visuals that's for sure, but the core substance and gameplay. The WiiU didn't hold that game back from being what is considered the game of the generation.

LOL, that worked for Nintendo because Zelda BOTW is FUCKING ZELDA BOTW, the best game of the last decade.

You're out of your mind if you think Microsoft has anything remotely close to anything Nintendo level....hahahaha.

PM sent - cycycychris

Last edited by cycycychris - on 16 January 2020

goopy20 on 13 January 2020
yvanjean said:
goopy20 said:

Xbone X and ps4 pro enhanced games are a bit different, though. And those consoles were never pushed to its fullest potential. If someone decided to make a X1X or ps4 pro exclusive, I'm sure it would look a hell of a lot better than an "enhanced" game. Those games are basically like remasters where you get the exact same game, except with a higher fps and resolution. Now, what do you think looks better? TLOU remastered for ps4 running in 60fps and 4k, or TLOU2 build from the ground up for ps4 and optimized to run at 30fps? Isn't it obvious that they can do a lot of things in TLOU2 with the core game design, that simply wouldn't be possible if it still had to run on a ps3? 

Huge difference between Enhanced games and full consoles optimization. Halo Infinite and next Forza game aren't enhanced for the XSX, these game will simply be ported and available on older consoles. Halo & Forza team have known the final specs for XSX for a long time and these two games will be the center piece of showcasing what XSX can do. Let assume the 12 TF XSX and 9.2 TF PS5 rumors are true resulting in 30% increase power. Even if these game don't take advantage of XSX full consoles optimization, the game will still be way better then last gen and anything that could of been done on PS5 with 30% less power. 

Just look at optimization done for the Xbox one X, once you give the development team a chance to show what their game can do on better hardware they will push the new hardware in order to better showcase their game. Hence, why almost every game on Xbox one X received a patch to take advantage of the Xbox one X new hardware and not simply console enhanced. 

You really think that Microsoft first party studios are building next gen games to the specs of the OG Xbox and these games will be system enhanced by the XSX. Just look at the demo of Hellblade 2, the game is built for taking full advantage of XSX. Yet, it will be ported to the older consoles. 

Here is what you guys are missing Sony next gen games aren't coming to PS4 and PS4 Pro not due to hardware limitation but because Sony wants to push sell of PS5 hardware. 

Remind me again, what's the difference between a X1X patched game and an enhanced version? Maybe I'm wrong but isn't Forza Horizon 4 identical on XBX1, except that you can play it in 4k, or in performance mode at 60fps? 

With these next gen consoles it will be different as I'm sure not all games will be targeting native 4k and 60fps. Instead, we will probably see 1080p (or 1440p) and a locked 30fps in most cases. If those games also will have to run on Xone, it will simply limit the developers ambition and scope for those games. Of course Sony wants everyone to move on the ps5, but what's wrong with that? IMO the first wave of cross gen titles always kinda suck compared to the games that take a full leap to the next gen. GTA5 might be an exception here and is still be an amazing game, but it sure is a shame that they didn't release a GTA game this gen that was build from the ground up around current gen hardware. But at least GTA6 will likely skip current gen consoles.