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Forums - Movies & TV - The Rise of BS - Star Wars Epi 9 SPOILERS

AbbathTheGrim said:
DarthJarvis said:
9. Finn has something extremely important to tell Rey that it's a matter of life or death... then completely drops it and when its brought up again its secretive. I figured it was that he was force sensitive too but if that's the case BFD... why make it cause issues with one of your friends and keep it a secret?

Since TFA it was obvious that Finn was infatuated with Rey so Finn in TROS was just ashamed of telling Rey and almost got the courage when they were about to die. Don't be surprised if you see future stories talking about Rey and her children with Finn.

I read your other post and yes, Finn turns down Rose, it is obvious Finn ignores Rose the same way TROS ignores her.

I won't defend this movie much because this sequel trilogy is not worth it.

Machiavellian said:

Which means you already tarnished yourself in taking the movie as it is and enjoying what it does.  If your thought process is already negative, then most time it would take a lot to change a person already predisposed opinion.

Nonsense. I had a feeling Hustlers was going to be an overrated movie due to how it looked and how it was discussed by shills and it turned out to be a pretty good movie. This happens to me with some movies, I am always opened to be wrong.

I was expecting that TROS would be a mess because the people behind TLJ didn't care for the movie that came before it, TFA, and didn't care for the movie that would come next TROS. So TROS had to tag on a bigger villain (Sidious), with no set up, because there was no villain worth fighting against after the TLJ and TROS had to show Jedi training when Johnson completely and absolutely failed to show the importance of Jedi training, not to mention the death of Carrie Fisher but then you can't blame that one on anyone.

Its been confirmed that it was he was force sensitive 



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Fallawful said:
I see a lot of people blaming exclusively the Last Jedi for the trilogy not being coherent. I disagree - I think that the Force Awakens led the foundations for bad story-telling, and is at least equally to blame as the Last Jedi for the trilogy not feeling coherent. (This, aside from the fact that the real blame is the lack of planning within Disney in the first place - who does a trilogy without knowing where it's going? Jeez.)

Anyway - here's a challenge, if anyone wants to take it up: One of the biggest quoted flaws for the Last Jedi is how they treated Luke's character. My thing is - how was the Last Jedi supposed to treat Luke? The very first scene in the Force Awakens has the main villain looking for Luke, because he's missing and absolutely nobody knows his true location. What kind of excuse is the Last Jedi supposed to come up with to explain Luke's disappearance without Luke looking like a total arse? When the next movie begins, what the hell is Luke supposed to say that still makes him look like a hero?

The Last Jedi took some risks and ignored some stuff from the Force Awakens, this is true, but I sincerely also don't think the Force Awakens placed good foundations in the first place. JJ Abrams threw a bunch of stuff in the air in hopes that the next directer would catch it and run with it. It didn't work out.

Anyway, I always hoped RoS would connect the trilogy finally, but it didn't, and I left the heater having enjoyed an underwhelming Star Wars movie.

Easily.  He went searching for Palpatine. He went searching for missing jedi. He went to further his training. I'm sure many other possibilities 



One thing I enjoyed but still kinda felt insulted by was the obvious rip-off of greatest hits from other epic franchises.

Aside from ripping off other Star Wars epic moments (making them seem less special and unique), we got
"I...am Iron Man" from Avengers Endgame.
We got the ghosts are on your side from Lord of the Rings. We got "On your left" from Avengers.

Geez, JJ! Save some for somebody else!



Seriously, why is no one else voicing their objections that Anakin was retconned for being the chosen one and it was given to Palpatine..... or that if Jedi can grab hold of lightsabers that means they can obviously wield one so in reality they're just ascended immortals now that can kick everyone's ass



It dies make arbitrary rules out of nowhere but I still wouldn't rank it as the worst. I still rank the last Jedi lower than this. And of course Solo. But I don't take star wars or any franchise too damn seriously and just go to movies to have a good time so it takes a real piece of work for me to not enjoy a movie when I come in wanting to enjoy it. Regardless, I heard Abrams came in late and had to fix what he had to work with in the deadline he had. They should have delayed the movie. Also the last Jedi ruined everything and left the mess that the rise of the Skywalker has to clean up. If the same director made all three movies or some big supervisor like Kevin Feige or Guggenheim existed, this would be so much better.

And you know why I dislike the last Jedi as the worst star wars movie besides solo? The promised me a shift. Like I seriously thought they were gonna make Kylo Ren good and Ray bad but they disappointed me and chickened out. Also they killed the big bad of the entire trilogy like he was nothing aka snoke. This movie was made by people who were ashamed of the last Jedi and it shows, so of course anyone who, for some reason, thinks the last Jedi is the best movie would like this one the least. I think Smoke should never have died and at the end of the last movie, Ray should have turned evil and tried to kill Ben. It should have ended with Ben almost dying but Like coming in to save him. And in this movie, it starts with Ben going to the resistance and his mother and the movie is about the others(Poe, Finn and Rose) begrudgingly working with Ben to save Ray. And we see Snoke chatting with palpatine as a force ghost. Snoke could still have been a clone created by Palpatine and we could have had an interesting back story about how Palpatine made clones for the with to survive and somehow made them force conscious..



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

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DarthJarvis said:
Seriously, why is no one else voicing their objections that Anakin was retconned for being the chosen one and it was given to Palpatine..... or that if Jedi can grab hold of lightsabers that means they can obviously wield one so in reality they're just ascended immortals now that can kick everyone's ass

I did not like The Force Awakens so I've skipped every star wars since. It wasn't offensive to me in any way, but it felt really boring trying to cash in on nostalgia and nothing more. That being said I did follow the leaks of this movie and seeing how they ruined Anakin's arc and effectively 6 movies is pretty hard to accept. This change is clearly the worst change out of anything they did because they ruin the meanings of those movies in a pretty big way. You kind of have to ignore this movie to see them the same way. 



Jaicee said:

I feel like the people here blaming RoS's failures on TLJ are frankly trying to justify the fact that the actual reason RoS sucks is because it very obviously panders to their demands for this trilogy instead of following through on the direction established in TLJ.  #StarWarsFans type people simply don't want to own their own role in ruining this trilogy for most everyone, including me.

The problem is it panders to them in a completely contrived and rushed ways, while also screaming too little, too late.  And there was no direction established by TLJ.  It left the Rebels right where they began.  Only now some people are dead.  There was no cliffhanger to get people excited for the next film.  And its answers for the very mysteries that brought people into the theater on opening day were big nothings.  Kathleen Kennedy put an internet troll in the director's seat and the film and franchise payed the price for it.

And now you have joined us, not liking this film for the same exact reason you claimed we didn't like TLJ, it didn't pander to our theories or where we wanted the story to go. 

Fallawful said:
I see a lot of people blaming exclusively the Last Jedi for the trilogy not being coherent. I disagree - I think that the Force Awakens led the foundations for bad story-telling, and is at least equally to blame as the Last Jedi for the trilogy not feeling coherent. (This, aside from the fact that the real blame is the lack of planning within Disney in the first place - who does a trilogy without knowing where it's going? Jeez.)

Anyway - here's a challenge, if anyone wants to take it up: One of the biggest quoted flaws for the Last Jedi is how they treated Luke's character. My thing is - how was the Last Jedi supposed to treat Luke? The very first scene in the Force Awakens has the main villain looking for Luke, because he's missing and absolutely nobody knows his true location. What kind of excuse is the Last Jedi supposed to come up with to explain Luke's disappearance without Luke looking like a total arse? When the next movie begins, what the hell is Luke supposed to say that still makes him look like a hero?

The Last Jedi took some risks and ignored some stuff from the Force Awakens, this is true, but I sincerely also don't think the Force Awakens placed good foundations in the first place. JJ Abrams threw a bunch of stuff in the air in hopes that the next directer would catch it and run with it. It didn't work out.

Anyway, I always hoped RoS would connect the trilogy finally, but it didn't, and I left the heater having enjoyed an underwhelming Star Wars movie.

You are right that the foundation wasn't put down perfectly by a professional.  But, it was a competent job and could have been built upon.  Instead, Rian Johnson decided to jackhammer the foundation apart, only to put up a straw house in its place.  JJ came back and had to put the pieces of the foundation back together and build the walls of the house in a matter of a day, while putting on a solid roof to complete it.  That's just not enough time to do that, and, unfortunately, JJ isn't exactly the man for the job.

As for Luke.  There are tons of possibilities.  He could have been looking for the hiding place of Snoke, who in TFA only appeared via hologram.  He could have been continuing his training to better take on this new threat.  Hell, you could have it that he has no idea about The Order, and left to find his nephew to bring him back to the Light side. Maybe Ben shut him out from contacting him with the Force and his trying to find a way to break through that.  The Order popped up in his absence and shortly after Ben and the other students join them.

But, Rian is an internet troll, so wanted to shit on Luke's character in front of the fans.  So, he made him a hermit who hates everything he always loved, and wanted to be left alone to die on the island.  Of course, he conveniently forgot one of the biggest parts of the first films in this trilogy.  He left a fucking map on how to find him if the Rebels needed him, again.

The movie really should have been called The Last Nothing, because that's what its biggest theme was.  You like this character?  Well, they are NOTHING like you remember them, and for no good reason.  You want a compelling plot that moves the story forward?  Well, you get NOTHING but a slow speed chase and a side mission straight out of a Disney channel film.  Want to know Rey's lineage so it may explain somewhat about how she is so good with the Force?  Well, it's NOTHING, she's a nobody.  Want to learn more about the Knights of Ren?  Well, they get NOTHING, not even a mention. 

Like a said, an internet troll.  It's fine to subvert people's expectations IF you lead them down interesting paths they never thought to go.  It's not ok to subvert people's expectations just for the sake of doing it because it makes you laugh like a castrated hyena. And the people who praise such a thing are part of the problem that SW finds itself in, now.

Moren said:
I'll be reading your full impressions once I watch the movie at the end of the week.
It's a shame though. I enjoyed The Last Jedi for what it was, but they capitulated to loud and angry minorities.

If by minority you mean 49.99% of the audience, you may be right.  Disney knows they fucked up with TLJ.  It had some of the worst legs of any of the SW movies.  The fans of TLJ that think it was only a minuscule minority that disliked the film are being willfully ignorant.  This film was gauranteed to make $1.8B, and may have made more.  It made $1.33B.  It caused a major backlash and drop in interest for everything SW, i.e. merch and park attendance.  Its home movies sales dropped to just 46% those of TFA, after doing 64% of what TFA did at the theater, meaning interest in the film dropped even more.  If anything TLJ fans are in the minority.

Disney would have been insane to continue on what little path that TLJ laid out for it.  They would have had an even smaller opening than they just had for the retcon mess that is ROS.

Last edited by thismeintiel - on 23 December 2019

You know what, here's a perfect story to give luke, he dissapeared so everyone is searching for him. No one is able to find him and when all hope is lost and Snoke comes out of hiding to kill Rey a green lightsaber lights up and cuts his hand off. Luke actually joined the First order to climb the ranks to get close to Snoke and no one could find him because he was right under their noses.

Yes, it's a little derivative of how the save Liea and Han but the whole damn series was derived. It takes care of both Rey being a Mary sue and Luke being a hermit.

The map he left behind was a wild goose chase. Rey finds it and the abandoned temple. 

Best of all, it subverts expectations.

Last edited by DarthJarvis - on 23 December 2019

thismeintiel said:
Jaicee said:

I feel like the people here blaming RoS's failures on TLJ are frankly trying to justify the fact that the actual reason RoS sucks is because it very obviously panders to their demands for this trilogy instead of following through on the direction established in TLJ.  #StarWarsFans type people simply don't want to own their own role in ruining this trilogy for most everyone, including me.

The problem is it panders to them in a completely contrived and rushed ways, while also screaming too little, too late.  And there was no direction established by TLJ.  It left the Rebels right where they began.  Only now some people are dead.  There was no cliffhanger to get people excited for the next film.  And its answers for the very mysteries that brought people into the theater on opening day were big nothings.  Kathleen Kennedy put an internet troll in the director's seat and the film and franchise payed the price for it.

And now you have joined us, not liking this film for the same exact reason you claimed we didn't like TLJ, it didn't pander to our theories or where we wanted the story to go. 

I'm trying to follow this logic and failing, but I do appreciate its general spirit of unity. We might not agree entirely as to why RoS is a terrible film, but at least we can agree that it is, so I think we're getting somewhere here, lol.

I think you're missing the heart and soul of The Last Jedi. Besides the fact that I thought it kind of clever that the main twist of the film is that there is no actual plot twist in the end, the point of it being that way is to convey that the mental-emotional progress of the Resistance is more basic than, and a prerequisite for, their physical progress on the battlefield. To get somewhere in their fight against the First Order, they require spiritual progress, each major character in their own way. It's that progress that is made and centered in the film. Internal progress has to come first. Mind over matter. It's about the growth of the characters as people; their internal wars more than their external conflicts. I really liked that exploration!

The Rise of Skywalker seems like very much the opposite kind of film nearly all of the time. It's all about just simply fighting and winning as far as I can tell. In that way, it seems to revert to a much simpler, less reflective, and more specifically Western type of outlook on life. Which inevitably does indeed remind one of director J.J. Abrams for those who have followed his work.



Jaicee said:
thismeintiel said:

The problem is it panders to them in a completely contrived and rushed ways, while also screaming too little, too late.  And there was no direction established by TLJ.  It left the Rebels right where they began.  Only now some people are dead.  There was no cliffhanger to get people excited for the next film.  And its answers for the very mysteries that brought people into the theater on opening day were big nothings.  Kathleen Kennedy put an internet troll in the director's seat and the film and franchise payed the price for it.

And now you have joined us, not liking this film for the same exact reason you claimed we didn't like TLJ, it didn't pander to our theories or where we wanted the story to go. 

I'm trying to follow this logic and failing, but I do appreciate its general spirit of unity. We might not agree entirely as to why RoS is a terrible film, but at least we can agree that it is, so I think we're getting somewhere here, lol.

I think you're missing the heart and soul of The Last Jedi. Besides the fact that I thought it kind of clever that the main twist of the film is that there is no actual plot twist in the end, the point of it being that way is to convey that the mental-emotional progress of the Resistance is more basic than, and a prerequisite for, their physical progress on the battlefield. To get somewhere in their fight against the First Order, they require spiritual progress, each major character in their own way. It's that progress that is made and centered in the film. Internal progress has to come first. Mind over matter. It's about the growth of the characters as people; their internal wars more than their external conflicts. I really liked that exploration!

The Rise of Skywalker seems like very much the opposite kind of film nearly all of the time. It's all about just simply fighting and winning as far as I can tell. In that way, it seems to revert to a much simpler, less reflective, and more specifically Western type of outlook on life. Which inevitably does indeed remind one of director J.J. Abrams for those who have followed his work.

After having a chance to see ROS, I can definitely say that it felt like a far better Star Wars movie over TLJ.  Some of my major complaints with TLJ is how Luke bit the dust. Instead of having luke actually be present and make you feel like the force is this commanding power, he was just some dumb illusion.  Really, if you are going to kill one of the main characters of the movie, going out that way was a complete whimper.

Next we have Snuke.  The first movie built him up and the second movie killed him off like so much rubbish.  It was just a wasted chance and another whimper moment.  The whole movie just felt like whimper moments and never made you feel like anything was epic. I never got that feeling that I was watching something epic or even interesting and each character felt bland like the director was making a made for TV movie.

At least in ROS, you start to believe that Rey actually have some power.  That big time enemy in the story actually is a big time enemy not some whimper.  When Palpatine rose his hands literally took down thousands of ships with his force lighting at least you felt that the force was something more powerful then some parlor tricks.  You felt like the big bad guy can actually kick butt not die not even knowing he was dead.  Yeah, TLJ nowhere even close made you feel like a Star wars movie at least ROS tried to give you that impression again.