Quantcast
Rumor:PS5 & Anaconda Scarlet GPU on par with RTX 2080, Xbox exclusives focus on Cross gen, Developer complain about Lockhart.UPDATE: Windows Central said Xbox Anaconda target 12 teraflop

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Rumor:PS5 & Anaconda Scarlet GPU on par with RTX 2080, Xbox exclusives focus on Cross gen, Developer complain about Lockhart.UPDATE: Windows Central said Xbox Anaconda target 12 teraflop

What do you think

I am excited for next gen 22 61.11%
 
I cannot wait to play next gen consoles 4 11.11%
 
I need to find another th... 2 5.56%
 
I worried about next gen 8 22.22%
 
Total:36
EricHiggin said:

MS will no doubt make the dev tools as friendly as possible if this is the case. They apparently focused heavily on the software and dev tools for XB1X, so there's no reason to believe they won't go beyond that to get games running on both next gen consoles as easy as possible. That of course doesn't mean it will be a simple as making one version and having it work perfect on both, but for the average dev, it won't be a big deal overall. Unless all they care about is profits, and how many devs like that make great games you want to play anyway?

As for PS4 to Pro. Did the devs know Pro was coming? If they had an idea, did they take it serious, or was it just up in the air in a manner that they very well assumed it wasn't going to happen, and didn't really plan ahead? Why waste time on scalability, if you don't know or think you're going to need it? Now that devs know a mid gen upgrade is likely, and maybe PS will even be straight up and tell them it'll likely be based on a Zen 6 CPU and RDNA 5.0 GPU, etc, they can be more prepared in advance, so there's less headaches down the road.

As for the smaller devs, well, they may have to put a little more work in for both consoles, or maybe they can focus solely on Xcloud streaming. As long as the game works on the Xcloud server hardware, it should work on every XB console right?

I hope developer target Lockhart (that equal to PS4 pro)  as 1080p and 30fps machine, so it can focus on graphic fidelity, and Anaconda will do the resolution and frame rates enhancement. 

But if Microsoft asked developer to make Lockhart as 1440p machine, then it will be wasted on resolution but run with PS4/Xbox One graphic and Anaconda is will be just as useless.

So i still not agree with this lockhart, But i do like it if Microsoft planning to release another Scarlet X like how Sony might able to release midgen PS5 upgrade along the line. It's better, because Anaconda and PS5 will be the baseline instead lockhart and PS5 pro and Scarlet X will be the enhancer like PS4pro and Xbox One X was.

Scalability can happen only on resolution and frame rates as well some post processing effect, but scalability cannot work on game design. They are some games that cannot scale up due to their games design. Lockhart to Anaconda might be OK , but if Microsoft targeting Xbox One as baseline then it will jeopardize future game design and hampering the progress of new type of games that could have never been made on PS4/Xbox One generation. 

Last edited by HollyGamer - on 07 December 2019

Around the Network
thismeintiel said:
crissindahouse said:
I like the idea how it will be such a problem with Lockhart while you will be able to play the same games on 536 different PC configurations and no dev will tell you how it's so much work to develop for all these configs.

No they don't.  They have a baseline of what they are aiming for.  They just give you options to turn certain effects off and lower the resolution so you can attempt to get it to run on lower spec machines.  They aren't testing all of these out.  If your PC doesn't run it well, they aren't going in to make specific changes to get it to work, you just need to update your HW.  On the Lockhart, they will have to do extensive testing on it to getting it running 1440p/30fps/60fps on a system that has a much weaker GPU and significantly less RAM.  Sure, you probably will get games that drop into the 20fps range and have variable resolutions, but MS isn't going to be happy if this consistently happens, or the games are dropping into the teens on fps and 720p for the resolution.  That will turn gamers off from getting this "next-gen" system.

This is why devs, not just gamers, are complaining about this.  They feel it's going to hold back their games and/or cause them to put more resources into getting those games running on Lockhart.

Guess you didn't get my point. Games run perfectly fine on a lot of different PC configs nowadays without devs optimizing anything for it as long as the PCs aren't total crap so that just two versions of Xbox won't be like "ohh wow, now devs have so much work to do it's so complicated". They just have to lower the resolution and maybe a few settings which these games will already support on PC as well.

But instead of the PC Player finding his perfect settings for his system, the dev just decides what he will reduce for the weaker Xbox

How much testing is needed for that? A PC gamer doesn't sit there 5 months to find a setting which makes the game playable on his rig.

It's just laughable to think about how this is supposed to be so much extra work especially when a cheaper Xbox would also help to sell more games for the devs since some with less money could still buy into next gen.

It's just two damn Xbox versions, nothing more. Poor devs...



HollyGamer said:
EricHiggin said:

MS will no doubt make the dev tools as friendly as possible if this is the case. They apparently focused heavily on the software and dev tools for XB1X, so there's no reason to believe they won't go beyond that to get games running on both next gen consoles as easy as possible. That of course doesn't mean it will be a simple as making one version and having it work perfect on both, but for the average dev, it won't be a big deal overall. Unless all they care about is profits, and how many devs like that make great games you want to play anyway?

As for PS4 to Pro. Did the devs know Pro was coming? If they had an idea, did they take it serious, or was it just up in the air in a manner that they very well assumed it wasn't going to happen, and didn't really plan ahead? Why waste time on scalability, if you don't know or think you're going to need it? Now that devs know a mid gen upgrade is likely, and maybe PS will even be straight up and tell them it'll likely be based on a Zen 6 CPU and RDNA 5.0 GPU, etc, they can be more prepared in advance, so there's less headaches down the road.

As for the smaller devs, well, they may have to put a little more work in for both consoles, or maybe they can focus solely on Xcloud streaming. As long as the game works on the Xcloud server hardware, it should work on every XB console right?

I hope developer target Lockhart (that equal to PS4 pro)  as 1080p and 30fps machine, so it can focus on graphic fidelity, and Anaconda will do the resolution and frame rates enhancement. 

But if Microsoft asked developer to make Lockhart as 1440p machine, then it will be wasted on resolution but run with PS4/Xbox One graphic and Anaconda is will be just as useless.

So i still not agree with this lockhart, But i do like it if Microsoft planning to release another Scarlet X like how Sony might able to release midgen PS5 upgrade along the line. It's better, because Anaconda and PS5 will be the baseline instead lockhart and PS5 pro and Scarlet X will be the enhancer like PS4pro and Xbox One X was.

Scalability can happen only on resolution and frame rates as well some post processing effect, but scalability cannot work on game design. They are some games that cannot scale up due to their games design. Lockhart to Anaconda might be OK , but if Microsoft targeting Xbox One as baseline then it will jeopardize future game design and hampering the progress of new type of games that could have never been made on PS4/Xbox One generation. 

Wasn't MS promoting how they were requiring frame rate parity across the consoles for online? Maybe for single player campaign they will allow for higher res and/or details with 30fps, but in multiplayer I'd guess they will require 60fps. In terms of game design, MS hasn't exactly been doing anything way out of the ordinary this gen, so unless their dev teams have ideas that require focus on only one console, there's not a lot holding them back from having two.

Now MS could try and push Anaconda sales and allow it to shine, by having certain first party exclusives land only on that specific hardware, but will MS be willing to absorb the early software losses? This would allow for both SKU's to exist, and it would be somewhat more like like PS5. If you want the AAA best of the best, you have to get the more expensive hardware. Would XB gamers be ok with this as a whole though?



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.

crissindahouse said:
I like the idea how it will be such a problem with Lockhart while you will be able to play the same games on 536 different PC configurations and no dev will tell you how it's so much work to develop for all these configs.

Or the Switch with 307.2Mhz, 384Mhz, 460Mhz, 768Mhz CPU clocks with either a 1333Mhz or 1600Mhz memory clock modes.

HollyGamer said:

Simple answer, Developer are worried  games will be made using Lockhart as standar more so using Xbox One as baseline. Scaling game design is impossible especially if the  CPU is not even the same. Lockhart to Anaconda probably can, but Jaguar to Ryzen 3 . LOL 

Many effects are driven by the CPU. - Thus you can retain the same game design with a weaker CPU.
Would you like me to list some examples?

thismeintiel said:

No they don't.  They have a baseline of what they are aiming for.  They just give you options to turn certain effects off and lower the resolution so you can attempt to get it to run on lower spec machines.  They aren't testing all of these out.  If your PC doesn't run it well, they aren't going in to make specific changes to get it to work, you just need to update your HW.  On the Lockhart, they will have to do extensive testing on it to getting it running 1440p/30fps/60fps on a system that has a much weaker GPU and significantly less RAM.  Sure, you probably will get games that drop into the 20fps range and have variable resolutions, but MS isn't going to be happy if this consistently happens, or the games are dropping into the teens on fps and 720p for the resolution.  That will turn gamers off from getting this "next-gen" system.

This is why devs, not just gamers, are complaining about this.  They feel it's going to hold back their games and/or cause them to put more resources into getting those games running on Lockhart.

There are plenty of games that run and look like ass on the Xbox One and Playstation 4 as developers focused on the Xbox One X and Playstation 4 Pro variants of their games.

It is entirely down to the developer and what they are willing to do.

HollyGamer said:

I hope developer target Lockhart (that equal to PS4 pro)  as 1080p and 30fps machine, so it can focus on graphic fidelity, and Anaconda will do the resolution and frame rates enhancement. 

But if Microsoft asked developer to make Lockhart as 1440p machine, then it will be wasted on resolution but run with PS4/Xbox One graphic and Anaconda is will be just as useless.

So i still not agree with this lockhart, But i do like it if Microsoft planning to release another Scarlet X like how Sony might able to release midgen PS5 upgrade along the line. It's better, because Anaconda and PS5 will be the baseline instead lockhart and PS5 pro and Scarlet X will be the enhancer like PS4pro and Xbox One X was.

Scalability can happen only on resolution and frame rates as well some post processing effect, but scalability cannot work on game design. They are some games that cannot scale up due to their games design. Lockhart to Anaconda might be OK , but if Microsoft targeting Xbox One as baseline then it will jeopardize future game design and hampering the progress of new type of games that could have never been made on PS4/Xbox One generation. 

What gives you the impression that Lockhart will just be a rebadged Playstation 4 Pro?

Also. Scalability can work on game design.

Case in point. Battlefield. - 7th gen multiplayer matches had less players per map with much reduced "interactivity: (I.E. Physics) verses the comparative 8th gen releases.




--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

So... is there really a huge demand for playing console games in 10 minute chunks? I mean, faster load and start up times are cool in general, but is that a major selling point to you? I'm honestly asking.



Around the Network
JWeinCom said:
So... is there really a huge demand for playing console games in 10 minute chunks? I mean, faster load and start up times are cool in general, but is that a major selling point to you? I'm honestly asking.

I've got quite a few friends who game for like an hour at a time or less. Mostly because of kids in their 'free time'. 30 sec to 60 sec+ load times means less play time, depending on how much loading is going on for whichever game. I know more than a few of them have stated they can't stand the long load times on PS4, and at times won't bother playing because it doesn't feel worth it over a shorter period of time. I myself really don't like having to wait either. 30 secs max is about as long as I think is reasonable, and sometimes the wait can be much longer than that.

I think many people, if given the choice, would choose 1800p/60 checkerboard with 10 sec max load times, vs native 4k/60 30sec-60sec load times. There certainly are people who would rather wait to be able to have all the visual bells and whistles, but I don't think they are the majority. Waiting for games to load is actually a regression compared to the distant past. While it doesn't have to be instantaneous, a bar should be set, and whatever it costs to meet that, needs to be taken from elsewhere. Either that, or we get another PS3 situation.



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.

JWeinCom said:
So... is there really a huge demand for playing console games in 10 minute chunks? I mean, faster load and start up times are cool in general, but is that a major selling point to you? I'm honestly asking.

I am one of them. I will come home and fire up a game of Overwatch on the PC rather than a game of Halo 5 on Xbox One X, Breath of the Wild on WiiU, Mario Kart 8 on Switch etc'.
Why? Because my PC boots up and loads overwatch in mere seconds and I can have a match for 10 minutes during a break.
Plus my lifestyle is pretty sporadic to start with.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
crissindahouse said:
I like the idea how it will be such a problem with Lockhart while you will be able to play the same games on 536 different PC configurations and no dev will tell you how it's so much work to develop for all these configs.

Or the Switch with 307.2Mhz, 384Mhz, 460Mhz, 768Mhz CPU clocks with either a 1333Mhz or 1600Mhz memory clock modes.

HollyGamer said:

Simple answer, Developer are worried  games will be made using Lockhart as standar more so using Xbox One as baseline. Scaling game design is impossible especially if the  CPU is not even the same. Lockhart to Anaconda probably can, but Jaguar to Ryzen 3 . LOL 

Many effects are driven by the CPU. - Thus you can retain the same game design with a weaker CPU.
Would you like me to list some examples?

thismeintiel said:

No they don't.  They have a baseline of what they are aiming for.  They just give you options to turn certain effects off and lower the resolution so you can attempt to get it to run on lower spec machines.  They aren't testing all of these out.  If your PC doesn't run it well, they aren't going in to make specific changes to get it to work, you just need to update your HW.  On the Lockhart, they will have to do extensive testing on it to getting it running 1440p/30fps/60fps on a system that has a much weaker GPU and significantly less RAM.  Sure, you probably will get games that drop into the 20fps range and have variable resolutions, but MS isn't going to be happy if this consistently happens, or the games are dropping into the teens on fps and 720p for the resolution.  That will turn gamers off from getting this "next-gen" system.

This is why devs, not just gamers, are complaining about this.  They feel it's going to hold back their games and/or cause them to put more resources into getting those games running on Lockhart.

There are plenty of games that run and look like ass on the Xbox One and Playstation 4 as developers focused on the Xbox One X and Playstation 4 Pro variants of their games.

It is entirely down to the developer and what they are willing to do.

HollyGamer said:

I hope developer target Lockhart (that equal to PS4 pro)  as 1080p and 30fps machine, so it can focus on graphic fidelity, and Anaconda will do the resolution and frame rates enhancement. 

But if Microsoft asked developer to make Lockhart as 1440p machine, then it will be wasted on resolution but run with PS4/Xbox One graphic and Anaconda is will be just as useless.

So i still not agree with this lockhart, But i do like it if Microsoft planning to release another Scarlet X like how Sony might able to release midgen PS5 upgrade along the line. It's better, because Anaconda and PS5 will be the baseline instead lockhart and PS5 pro and Scarlet X will be the enhancer like PS4pro and Xbox One X was.

Scalability can happen only on resolution and frame rates as well some post processing effect, but scalability cannot work on game design. They are some games that cannot scale up due to their games design. Lockhart to Anaconda might be OK , but if Microsoft targeting Xbox One as baseline then it will jeopardize future game design and hampering the progress of new type of games that could have never been made on PS4/Xbox One generation. 

What gives you the impression that Lockhart will just be a rebadged Playstation 4 Pro?

Also. Scalability can work on game design.

Case in point. Battlefield. - 7th gen multiplayer matches had less players per map with much reduced "interactivity: (I.E. Physics) verses the comparative 8th gen releases.


Due stop mixing all the quotes 

"Many effects are driven by the CPU. - Thus you can retain the same game design with a weaker CPU." ??? Your statement is conflicted . If manny effect are driven by CPU that having a weaker CPU will make scalability game design imposible on weaker CPU. Thus i said that having Xbox One (jaguar)  for designing game  will be hampering all the unique feature and tech from Ryzen that could be utilized. I am not talking about just grapich alone but game design consiste, game concept, level, map, AI, Physicist, etc etc. (you agree with this)

" What gives you the impression that Lockhart will just be a rebadged Playstation 4 Pro? " I never said that, it's from Jason Kotaku said Lockhart GPU is equal to PS4 pro according to his resource  ". But i am not saying it will have the same capability as PS4 pro in terms of overall performance or game design. And i am not complaining about Lockhurt.

just look into Watchdog 2012 trailer  and compared that to Watchdog when it was released. Many PC gamers complain that the games was downgraded and blame console (PS4/Xbox One), but in reality the ones who need to blame are PS3/Xbox 360 , because Watchdog are also come to PS3/xbox360/Wii U.   

A scalability can work on game design agree if it's a scaledown , but scaling up no. But for graphic is possible but still required more time even if it's using an middleware and a good API . Scaling graphic  down from Anaconda to Xbox One is possible Scaling up games from Xbox One to Anaconda is easy but the games is just an Xbox One games.  Because Microsoft want parity a cross of their platform which is like how PC was (scale up on just resolution and Frame rates thus they insists with 120 fps /4k) , they don't care about next gen, no more next gen. Anaconda  will be just glorified PC if they want to focus on crossgen. 

I just want they focus on Scarlet and leave Xbox One in the dust, Sony might do the same with PS5 but according to Jason they are ready to move their game design to PS5 as baseline. 

Last edited by HollyGamer - on 07 December 2019

We now have Jason Schreier, FLUTE leak, Microsoft E3 video, The verge saying Anaconda is above 10TF, a verified insider saying both PS5 and Xbox anaconda is above 10TF. Add 3 people who have contacts with game developers (Kleegamfan, Colin Mccarthy, Andrew Reiner) saying PS5 is above Anaconda, what conclusion can we draw?

That the discussion if PS5 or Anaconda is below 10TF is over, the people who thought below 10TF are defeated. The next battle is whether next-gen consoles are using TSMC N7P or 7nm+.

I'm on 7nm+, who's with me?



"Donald Trump is the greatest president that god has ever created" - Trumpstyle

6x master league achiever in starcraft2

Beaten Sigrun on God of war mode

Beaten DOOM ultra-nightmare with NO endless ammo-rune, 2x super shotgun and no decoys on ps4 pro.

1-0 against Grubby in Wc3 frozen throne ladder!!

Trumpstyle said:
We now have Jason Schreier, FLUTE leak, Microsoft E3 video, The verge saying Anaconda is above 10TF, a verified insider saying both PS5 and Xbox anaconda is above 10TF. Add 3 people who have contacts with game developers (Kleegamfan, Colin Mccarthy, Andrew Reiner) saying PS5 is above Anaconda, what conclusion can we draw?

That the discussion if PS5 or Anaconda is below 10TF is over, the people who thought below 10TF are defeated. The next battle is whether next-gen consoles are using TSMC N7P or 7nm+.

I'm on 7nm+, who's with me?

A man can dream, i still hope for 7nm+ as well but there is another choice which is 7nm EUV is not as good 7nm+ but is better then 7nm for sure.